Anti-War Bill

Is the solution to this to have a policy to declare New Zealand neutral?

We should be declaring ourselves neutral but, as idiot axiom says, then arming ourselves so that we can defend ourselves.

There has always been war in this world. Most of it done by the US lately. To think that we're immune from this expansionist war would simply be asking for trouble.

Declaring Neutrality doesn't work unless you have an army strong enough to make it not worth disagreeing with you.

Switzerland is armed to the eyeballs.

I don't think we should declare ourselves neutral. Just specialise (and be more efficient) in an area. This would fulfil both our international treaty obligations and national morality.

Just specialise (and be more efficient) in an area.

People may specialise, societies don't. We've been trying to specialise as a farm for the last couple of centuries but there's no way with our present productivity that we can have everyone employed on farms or as support for farms as we used to do.

Those other people, some 90% of the work force, need something else to do and if they can't do it here then they'll simply leave and do it elsewhere. Which explains the million NZers living outside NZ.

We actually do need to develop our economy and that means diversification. tech labs, aero and space development, bio-tech etcetera, etcetera.

I wasn't referring to the economy. Just the military.

That doesn't work either as it leaves us weak and dependent upon the good will of others. Even without declaring neutrality I think we should be building up our defences.

To quote the defence force,"New Zealanders can remain confident that the country does not face a direct military threat in the foreseeable future." so we aren't going to be attacked in the foreseeable future.

Currently we spend a little over $3.261B on the defence force every year. Which is minuscule. 1.1% of GDP. Our nearest direct threat is probably Fiji who spends $0.054B each year. We could handle Fiji but if anyone else in the world attacked us such as Indonesia (probably our next closest possible threat) we would lose. They spend $11.03B a year. So we are weak and dependant....well, that isn't true. We are strong and co-dependant. We are dependant on the goodwill of others and that is a good thing.

The problem as I see it is that we are trying to do everything so we end up being crap at all of it. We can't afford air-force strike craft so we have ageing planes and helicopters. Our navy isn't made for warfare. Our ground forces can't afford tanks (We do have a combat tractor though :)).

In combat operations overseas we only use the SAS because that is all we can afford to equip. Everywhere else we are used for training or peacekeeping (with do not engage orders).

Now if you look at the actual threats to NZ and the world they are much more likely to come from natural disaster, pandemic, and global warming.

I am saying that since we are essentially useless to our allies in the first place why don't we specialise and fulfill our obligations by helping people. We can't go into combat with our ground troops but we could provide engineering and medical services. Our navy can't go into battle but they they can provide relief. Our aircraft can't attack but they can carry troops and supplies.

Let's do what we do already but do it better because we aren't trying to pretend we are an attack force so we don't have to throw all that money away to look good.

Let's be the good guys. The people who help people. Let's actively try to make the world a better place. We are probably the only country in the world that is fairly much totally militarily safe. How about being what a country should be when it isn't threatened.

We are strong and co-dependant. We are dependant on the goodwill of others and that is a good thing.

We're not strong and co-dependant we're simply weak. And what happens if those others become the threat? Which is possible. The US was friends with Iraq, even helped install Saddam Hussein - until they weren't.

The problem as I see it is that we are trying to do everything so we end up being crap at all of it.

Actually, we're not. The last Labour led government changed it so that the focus of the Defence Forces was as you suggest. The result is that we're bad at everything because we've let other necessary aspects of defence decline. Basically, each part reinforces the other.

We can't afford air-force strike craft so we have ageing planes and helicopters. Our navy isn't made for warfare. Our ground forces can't afford tanks

We could afford them - if we increased spending to the necessary 5% of GDP - five times more than we do now and produced the equipment we need here in NZ.

I am saying that since we are essentially useless to our allies in the first place why don't we specialise and fulfill our obligations by helping people.

We're already doing that.

Now if you look at the actual threats to NZ and the world they are much more likely to come from natural disaster, pandemic, and global warming.

Are you watching what China's doing lately in the South China Sea and Antarctica?
Defence force reports from around the world tell us that they're expecting increases in major conflict because of global warming.

The simple fact of the matter is that the world is running out of easily available resources - and we actually quite a lot of them. If we want to keep them for ourselves then we're going to need to be able to defend them else they will be taken from us.

We are probably the only country in the world that is fairly much totally militarily safe.

Except for the fact that we're not. Capitalism drives expansion because of the need for ever more resources.

Colin, you want us to prepare for a war that doesn't exist and and our own defence forces say isn't a threat to us. To do so you want to spend 5% of GDP to upgrade the defence force for a war that doesn't exist and that if it did we couldn't win. Nobody is going to have a fight in Antartica. To win one all you have to do is hit the base and then everybody dies in the cold.

Now if you took your 3.9% of extra spending and used it in something like my climate change idea New Zealand could stand as a world leader and an inspiration instead of throwing 3.9% extra money to the weapons manufacturers.

The military got an increase of $20 billion last year. That's enough to pay for every social program we have lost and many we need. They do NOT need any more money. Especially when they waste it on obsolete ancient aircraft hand-me-downs from the US. Total farce.