Loomio

Suggest an alternative

JV Joshua Vial Public Seen by 123

I find the single proposal per discussion pretty limiting and it would be so much easier to facilitate a group if there was an easy way to suggest alternatives to a proposal.

I'm imagining something like a 'suggest alternative' link on a proposal which lets anyone create a counter proposal. There would need to be a fair bit of UI work to figure out how to display multiple proposals in a condensed form and ideally it would be some javascript to expand them and state your position on the various ones.

I realise it's a big feature but I think it would be a significant step forward.

RDB

Richard D. Bartlett Fri 8 Mar 2013 8:10AM

Interesting. I have been thinking of the problem from a different point in the time-line. Like, an easy way of throwing up a handful of proto-proposals that the group can temperature check on, one of which would then be selected to become a proper proposal.

The proposal is a great way to get engagement and a clear outcome, but it is often too weighty for a nuanced conversation among high-trust or high-autonomy groups.

'Suggest an alternative' is a very cool way to make forward progress though. I can't wait to start sketching up these new ideas (once we've done the boring stuff like making it easy to get into Loomio and figure out what the hell is going on...)

JV

Joshua Vial Fri 8 Mar 2013 6:35PM

I like the idea of proto-proposals more - then I think you can control the notification settings so only 'engaged' people who opt in get notified about new proto-proposals which is sort of like a drafting stage.

Once drafted you fire up a formal proposal which sends out the heavy notifications. I think the suggest alternative feature then just becomes making another proto-proposal after the fact.

Put all this in javascript with real time updating interfaces and you could imagine a group of people working on something in real time and dramatically increasing the speed of collaboration on loomio.

VM

vivien maidaborn Sat 9 Mar 2013 8:48AM

I love both ideas, they arent necessarily mutually exclusive. I can imagine in some situations prototyping proposals at an early stage, and in other situations creating an alternative, this would be a cool response when a proposal is clearly not getting there and an improvement can be launched quickly.
Exciting!

AI

Alanna Irving Sat 9 Mar 2013 11:01AM

Some interesting ideas... but I also want to to keep in mind the value of really sticking to a proposal and thinking it all the way through. For me the true value of our type of decision making shines when you see someone state their position, then later through talking to others revisit their position and change it. The evolution toward consensus. If you give up on a proposal too early or have distracting counter proposals this won't happen. Group collaboration takes a bit of patience and hearing people out. Often time everyone can be trending toward "no" but then someone says something new and lots of people change their minds. Or simply thinking through a bad proposal is what leads people to think of the idea that comes up next and gets consensus.

JL

Jon Lemmon Sat 9 Mar 2013 11:12PM

Alanna raises some legitimate concerns, though I think we might be able to minimize them if we design the feature well enough. Also, we could try limiting the feature to only a few groups to start with and see what happens.

It's been clear to me that Loomio has been wanting this feature for a long time. It's just a matter of when we decide to start directing resources at it.

I

iacocoba Fri 15 Mar 2013 4:08PM

Imagine this happening: i open a proposal and discussion starts (as the email notifications discussion) First proposal is not clear and some people disagree. I take the new ideas and create a next one searching the consensus. I dont close the old proposal but it goes into the background. Discussion continues and this time more people participate Rob give and new vision that is supported by some people and is ok to me so I can create a new one with Rob idea and leave the second proposal into the background. And etc. Just to reach a considerable consensus. the difference is that new people going into the discussion can follow the old proposals and vote to confirm that we are moving in the right direction and new proposals are always in the right direction (or if not you are going to discover it).

I

Poll Created Sat 16 Mar 2013 8:24AM

Old proposals do not close when open a new one Closed Sat 23 Mar 2013 8:25AM

Old proposals do not close when open a new one, they just go down...

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 20.0% 1 I
Abstain 0.0% 0  
Disagree 80.0% 4 AI NW BK VM
Block 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 271 RG JV JL KC AT AC MB G DS N CR DS DMA S PS LG K JM ML SL

5 of 276 people have participated (1%)

I

iacocoba
Agree
Sat 16 Mar 2013 8:25AM

Its clear new proposal try to reach consensus but old proposal could be still alive given more information about new discussion users

VM

vivien maidaborn
Disagree
Sun 17 Mar 2013 9:07PM

I am concerned this would be difficult to understand what was being decided if previous proposals are still open

AI

Alanna Irving
Disagree
Mon 18 Mar 2013 2:19AM

For now I think being slow is preferable to being confusing. We need to do a lot fo design work to get the right system for concurrent proposals.

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