"Discussion" vs "Dialogue"

Alanna Irving Public Seen by 164

What if we changed references to "discussion" on Loomio to "Dialogue" instead?

Discussion

mid-14c., "examination, investigation, judicial trial," from Old French discussion "discussion, examination, investigation, legal trial," from Late Latin discussionem (nominative discussio) "examination, discussion," in classical Latin, "a shaking," from discussus, past participle of discutere "strike asunder, break up," from dis- "apart" (see dis-) + quatere "to shake" (see quash).

Meaning "a talking over, debating" in English first recorded mid-15c. Sense evolution in Latin appears to have been from "smash apart" to "scatter, disperse," then in post-classical times (via the mental process involved) to "investigate, examine," then to "debate."

Dialogue

See this encyclopedia entry

Dialogue (sometimes spelled dialog) is a reciprocal conversation between two or more entities. The etymological origins of the word (in Greek διά　(diá,through) + λόγος　(logos,word,speech, concepts like flowing-through meaning) do not necessarily convey the way in which people have come to use the word, with some confusion between the prefix διά-(diá-,through) and the prefix δι-(di-, two) leading to the assumption that a dialogue is necessarily between only two parties.

A dialogue as a form of communication has a verbal connotation. While communication can be an exchange of ideas and information by non-verbal signals, behaviors, as the etymology connotes, dialogue implies the use of language. A dialogue is distinguished from other communication methods such as discussions and debates. While debates are considered confrontational, dialogues emphasize listening and understanding.

Dialogue is used in terms like "interfaith dialogue" which specifically allude to increasing shared understanding in a collaborative way. To me, dialogue implies everyone building on what others contribute, working toward something bigger than the sum of its parts, not just advocating an individual point of view.

Although individuals often put forward conflicting points of view and talk them through on Loomio, we're not trying to build a tool for debating in the sense of two opposing views trying to "win" against one another. This is also why we don't refer to stating a position on a proposal as "voting" because it's not about contention and majority rules. It's about building shared understanding.

Loomio is a platform for collaboration. For people with differing perspectives to come together and arrive at a solution better than any individual would have come up with on their own. It's not "A vs B, who wins?" It's A + B = C, which is better than either A or B.

I think Dialogue reflects that better than Discussion. I have rarely seen the term dialogue used for online forums or apps, which would set Loomio apart and spark thinking about how communication here is different.

What do you think?

Matthew Bartlett Wed 18 Sep 2013 8:40PM

@aaronthornton good idea

OpenLifeChallenge Thu 19 Sep 2013 9:18PM

I believe that dialogue should most often be preferred before discussion in an open source and free software project. One reason is because it goes hand-in-hand with the idea of a good rule within these projects to "be excellent with eachother".

There is also a lot of science into this from MIT's William Isaacs who is one of the front researchers and has made practical advise out of David Bohm's philosophies.

I think it can be groundbreaking, some organisations already work with it and it truly removes a possible "hostile" discussion. Please read the following below:

William N. Isaacs' take on dialogue
by Lorna Williams

Isaacs' working definition of dialogue is that it is a
discipline of collective thinking and inquiry, a process
for transforming the quality of conversation, and in
particular the thinking that lies beneath it. It is evident
in the articles I read that Isaacs' idea of dialogue

developed along the same lines as Bohm--he quotes

Bohm extensively. Others whose work was influential
include Buber, Kurt Lewin, Argyris, and Wittgenstein.

Sources: http://www.soapboxorations.com/ddigest/isaacs.html
http://www.spaceforlearning.com/docs/Speaking%20Together%20-%20Alison%20Jones%20Sep%2007.pdf

Alanna Irving Fri 20 Sep 2013 2:51AM

@mawnt1as that was a most excellent comment! I love comments with citations :)

@benjaminknightloom is William N. Isaacs one of the people involved at the MIT lab Loomio has been working with at all?

Perhaps just changing the terminology, and therefore creating the opportunity to explain to users why we are using a term that may be unfamiliar to them is a great starting point.

I wonder how Loomio's software design could support the phases of dialogue?

Instability of the container is the initial phase when participants have concerns for safety and trust which they must move through, leading to
Instability in the container, when members struggle with polarization and conflict due to the clash of personally held beliefs and assumptions. It may take a lot of time to surface these conflicts. Suspending these beliefs can lead to
Inquiry in the container, with people inquiring into polarization and fragmentation. At this phase people often experience collective pain as the depth of disconnection is held by the group. This phase leads to
Creativity in the container, where new understandings based on collective perceptions emerge and people engage in more generative thinking together

Matthew Bartlett Fri 20 Sep 2013 3:02AM

@alannakrause that is cool and all very congruent with a sketch of a typical discussion @vivienmaidabornloo did a few weeks back that I'm struggling to turn into a beautiful diagram

vivien maidaborn Fri 20 Sep 2013 6:56AM

flows and enhances the dialogue flow. I also think moving between the stages of dialogue is a self initiation, the more someone one else defines them the less powerful they are. The Loomio retreat dialogue on Love and Power had acts of facilitation to initiate it but was largely self organizing throughout. I am interested in the lightest touch for the greatest impact in regard to this.

Benjamin Knight Fri 20 Sep 2013 10:10PM

@alannakrause, William Isaacs isn't someone we've been in touch with, but after reading the article @mawnt1as posted, I think he should be :)

Poll Created Thu 26 Sep 2013 4:29AM

Suggest to change references to "discussion" to "dialogue" in Loomio Closed Sun 29 Sep 2013 4:01AM

This is a proposal to suggest a change in terminology from calling the comments section a "discussion" to a "dialogue". For people who are unfamiliar with the use of the term dialogue in this sense, it will create an opportunity to explain (via tool tips, help documentation, etc) this choice and get them thinking about how they can apply the concepts to their group conversations on Loomio. For people familiar with the term, it will be a strong signal that Loomio intentionally supports this mode of communication.