Loomio
Tue 17 Sep 2013 3:45AM

"Discussion" vs "Dialogue"

AI Alanna Irving Public Seen by 164

What if we changed references to "discussion" on Loomio to "Dialogue" instead?

Discussion

mid-14c., "examination, investigation, judicial trial," from Old French discussion "discussion, examination, investigation, legal trial," from Late Latin discussionem (nominative discussio) "examination, discussion," in classical Latin, "a shaking," from discussus, past participle of discutere "strike asunder, break up," from dis- "apart" (see dis-) + quatere "to shake" (see quash).

Meaning "a talking over, debating" in English first recorded mid-15c. Sense evolution in Latin appears to have been from "smash apart" to "scatter, disperse," then in post-classical times (via the mental process involved) to "investigate, examine," then to "debate."

Dialogue

See this encyclopedia entry

Dialogue (sometimes spelled dialog) is a reciprocal conversation between two or more entities. The etymological origins of the word (in Greek διά (diá,through) + λόγος (logos,word,speech, concepts like flowing-through meaning) do not necessarily convey the way in which people have come to use the word, with some confusion between the prefix διά-(diá-,through) and the prefix δι-(di-, two) leading to the assumption that a dialogue is necessarily between only two parties.

A dialogue as a form of communication has a verbal connotation. While communication can be an exchange of ideas and information by non-verbal signals, behaviors, as the etymology connotes, dialogue implies the use of language. A dialogue is distinguished from other communication methods such as discussions and debates. While debates are considered confrontational, dialogues emphasize listening and understanding.


Dialogue is used in terms like "interfaith dialogue" which specifically allude to increasing shared understanding in a collaborative way. To me, dialogue implies everyone building on what others contribute, working toward something bigger than the sum of its parts, not just advocating an individual point of view.

Although individuals often put forward conflicting points of view and talk them through on Loomio, we're not trying to build a tool for debating in the sense of two opposing views trying to "win" against one another. This is also why we don't refer to stating a position on a proposal as "voting" because it's not about contention and majority rules. It's about building shared understanding.

Loomio is a platform for collaboration. For people with differing perspectives to come together and arrive at a solution better than any individual would have come up with on their own. It's not "A vs B, who wins?" It's A + B = C, which is better than either A or B.

I think Dialogue reflects that better than Discussion. I have rarely seen the term dialogue used for online forums or apps, which would set Loomio apart and spark thinking about how communication here is different.

What do you think?

RBW

Rachel B. Wickert Tue 17 Sep 2013 10:39AM

This reminds me of a question I've had on the back of my mind for a while. I am aware that the verbal is dominant in decision-making processes. It is even more so in virtual platforms like Loomio where there is not much space for people who find it easier to express themselves in visual terms e.g. picture, music, etc. I feel that for my group it might create barriers.

AI

Alanna Irving Tue 17 Sep 2013 10:46AM

@rachelbwickert - great comments :)

I agree that multimedia dialogue is rich. You can already put attachments and images in Loomio comments, but making it even easier and more multimedia is definitely on the horizon (such as sound and video, previews of links, etc).

RBW

Rachel B. Wickert Tue 17 Sep 2013 11:41AM

@alannakrause That's great to know! I've tried to attach pictures to comments but without a preview it misses a big part of the purpose. You've put a picture above to explain how it could look like to have "dialogue" instead of "discussion". How can I do that?

MJK

Mary Jo Kaplan Tue 17 Sep 2013 12:05PM

I mentioned this issue just before I left - dialogue to replace discusssion- and am a proponent. Vivien mentioned future plans for users to tailor the terms so they are relevant to local meaning . We need to keep in mind cultural and other differences for terms. Alanna's description is familiar to me in my work but would not necessarily resonate for everyone. I'd suggest if you make the switch that you include a brief definition/clarification of the meaning of the term.

BK

Benjamin Knight Tue 17 Sep 2013 11:31PM

I like dialogue a lot! (and have been thinking about it ever since we talked with @mjkaplan about the root of discussion being the same as 'percussion', as a back and forth banging against).

The tricky thing might be deciding between Dialog (US) and Dialogue (UK) spelling.

Are some people going to wonder aloud what 'dialogyou' means?

BK

Benjamin Knight Tue 17 Sep 2013 11:33PM

@rachelbwickert, at the moment we've just implemented the first iteration of attaching files, so you can only attach things to comments.

A soon to come next step will be attaching files to the context panel, which will likely be followed with some kind of preview function.

Right now you can insert images into the context panel if you know a little trick that @alannakrause will be able to explain much better than myself :)

RG

Robert Guthrie Tue 17 Sep 2013 11:42PM

@rachelbwickert Attached images are now displayed inline.. It makes a big difference! Here is an example.

MN

max noble Wed 18 Sep 2013 7:14AM

I hate language...can we replace those words with icon(pictures) that would assist better representations?

MB

Matthew Bartlett Wed 18 Sep 2013 5:44PM

@maxnoble it would be cool to see a sketch/mockup of the icons you're imagining...

AT

Aaron Thornton Wed 18 Sep 2013 8:26PM

@matthewbartlett that information does seem ugly and a little unnecessary since we now know what the image is.
Could it be tool tipped behind the paperclip?

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