Loomio

Ideas & braindump after 2019 Federal Elections

CC
Christophe Cop Public Seen by 191

Tonight (29/05), the Antwerp Crew will gather to discuss the past elections and start gathering ideas to see what we want to do the coming years.
We will not discuss or vote on the ideas yet. Just gather.
From wild ideas to realistic ideas... anything goes, even if it's silly, absurd or even somehow offensive or against the pirate principles (of course I don't encourage the last one).
The evaluation of ideas and selection of actions will be a later phase.

I hope we'll have the time to discuss the important parts (affecting PPBE) here as well.

But for now: please share your ideas, so we can add them to our longlist

MB

Marc Buckens Wed 29 May 2019

Hello, Some ideas : push some ideas/proposals through réferendum (ie. target 2025 : 300.000 shared cars in Belgigum (= to false company cars), push politician to set up a real participation platform (with information from expert), I assume that the participation budget for IT is around 1/1.000.000.000 of the IT budget of the state...)

SF

Simon Fransoo Wed 29 May 2019

I would like to use more social media. We can reach more people through this medium. I think for that we regularly have to post something useful on an fb page and all other fb pages share automatically.
I would like to try this for the city of Bruges: sometimes make a survey to find out what is going on in the population and see how we can make an appropriate answer or proposal that is in our vision.

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Wed 29 May 2019

I would like to use more social media. We can reach more people through this medium. I think for that we regularly have to post something useful on an fb page and all other fb pages share automatically.

The issues with Facebook are well-known (basically spending our money and our time on Facebook is taking the opposite direction to our values), so I'd say it's (more than) time to invest decentralized social media, without transforming them into giant advertising boards like Facebook. It's a slow process but it seems much more solid in a long-term view.

Ideas :
- make Pirate Party a reference on a few key issues (transparency, copyright, democracy, share culture, etc) so people find us relevant. How to achieve that? Organizing conferences/debates/workshops on these issues regularly, writing articles on these issues also.
- support the creation of a few crews, because we're way too few to achieve anything remarkable and as soon as 1 or 2 people become inactive, we get stuck :/ (but pay attention to these new crews, to make sure they understand what they joined)

@christophecop : would it be possible to have the list of ideas mentioned tonight before this saturday's lab ? This might be very useful.

B

bobrappe Wed 29 May 2019

Voici à quoi j'aspire :

Une communauté pirate plus proche des gens et de leurs diversités, dans le moment présent.
A l'heure actuelle, Loomio est un dispositif très lourd et il ne s'agit que de communications.
Il doit être compléter pour être au plus proche de la réalité du terrain qui évolue de jours en jours.
Par exemple, en pratique la majorité de ma famille est dégoûtée par la politique.
Les membres de ma famille ont des idées et des compétences diversifiées mais ils n'ont pas de plateforme conviviale pour les partager et pour agir. Ma famille n'est pas intéressée par Loomio.

Je pense que la communauté pirate devrait être plus ouvert à d'autres partis, dans la mesure où ceux-ci sont intéressés par de la démocratie participative, ce qui reste à voir. Il s'agirait d'une option de plus que ces partis offriraient à leurs membres ou électeurs.
Nous devrions peut être pouvoir nous inscrire à un autre parti en plus que de participer à la communauté pirate.
Ainsi la communauté pirate deviendrait une plateforme de rencontre potentielle de différents courants.
Il ne faut pas se focaliser sur les élections.
La communauté pirate devrait se transformer en un mouvement qui agit et change la mentalité des gens dans le quotidien, peu importe pour qui ils votent ensuite. Je trouve que les gens sont saturés de grands débats en tout genre. Ils ont besoin que nous les prenions en considération autrement que avec des mots.
Ce qui m'importe, c'est qu'il y ai des rencontres, du partage et de l'action.
C'est facile à dire mais difficile à faire. Concrètement, que leurs proposons nous, à part de belles paroles comme le font les autres partis? En quoi et comment cela change t-il quelque chose, en définitive?

This is what I aspire to:

A pirate community closer to people and their diversities, in the present moment.
Right now Loomio is a very heavy device, and it’s just communications.
It must be completed to be as close as possible to the reality of the terrain that is evolving from day to day.
For example, in practice most of my family is disgusted with politics.
My family members have diverse ideas and skills, but they don’t have a user-friendly platform to share and act on. My family is not interested in Loomio.

I think the pirate community should be more open to other parties, as long as they are interested in participatory democracy, which remains to be seen. It would be one more option that those parties would offer their members or voters.
Maybe we should be able to join another party in addition to participating in the pirate community.
Thus the pirate community would become a potential meeting platform of different currents.
We must not focus on elections.
The pirate community should be transformed into a movement that acts and changes the mentality of people in everyday life, no matter who they vote for next. I find that people are saturated with all kinds of great debates. They need us to consider them in ways other than words.
What matters to me is that there are meetings, sharing and action.
It is easy to say but difficult to do. What are they proposing in concrete terms, apart from fine words like the other parties? In what way and how does that change anything, ultimately?

IY

Illya Yekimov Wed 29 May 2019

Stage 1. Next few years we should shit on the traditional (establishement) political parties on social media, making funny movies, meme. Social media should be diversified, i.e. facebook, twitter, reddit,.. Maybe making a youtube channel were we film reactions of people and ask them questions. We should say that the parties are wasting money from the people by having multiple governements and parlements (favoritism) A meme could be Avengers: Infinity War Thanos ( with PP pasted onto it) snapping the governements away. We should make a intromovie for our site for people that visit it, because people don't like to read and a movie is easy to watch.
Stage 2. 2 years before the elections: visiting people asking question presenting ourselves. And recruitement (people from an area should speak with people in their area
Stage 3. A year before we should have our lists ready for the elections ( and the person on each list should run promo in his area. We should look into financing for our posters and stage 4.
Stage 4. 2 months pre-election. We should see is we could buy e-mail adresses and send people e-mails that their data is sold without their consent and knowledge.
Stage 5. 1 month to elections. We should shit on the parties, presenting our ideas in movies,...General promo
Ideas for promo. : 1) Build elderly resorts on a large scale that elderly can use if they relinquish most of their pension. Adventages: elderly are a growing forgotten group.
Resorts counteract their isolation.
Them leaving/ selling their houses opens up real estate, wich will be cheaper ( hence bigger offer on the market). Bigger scale is always cheaper, helps the aging population
2) Belgian education has a drop in quality and the teachers are overworked.: Create movies that are accesable to all students, that explain all subjects ( Like khan academy). Adventages: Everyone gets a chance at education. Everyone can catch up with the lessons ( sickness, cultural back ground)
3) We should invest in biotech, synthesis of ethanol( bio-diesel). Oil is a finite resource, if is will be gone, countries with alternatives will become the market leader. We will be less dependant on other countries for energy. And we are master beer brewers, it is not a big jump.
4) All feed that is now thrown away should be used for fermentation, energy , compound synthesis.
5) packaging should become biodegradable and less used.

LM

Lander Meeusen Wed 29 May 2019

The result of our braindump in Antwerp (in Dutch). https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pf-SvSjPt8C_qL6buADj_7bPWelDVKi6Pvu1fruBhv0/edit

We'll work towards selecting, finetuning, concretisation ideas. Question is who is able to do what.

J

Josse Wed 29 May 2019

@landermeeusen not a public document. (but thanks for sharing)

People vote for Vlaams Belang or PTB for the same reasons. We have solutions for that while we are still completely ignored in the media. Before, articles would be written in Knack e.g. while this path seems forgotten. It just asks for a "higher" quality type of article. But you have to dare to tell that something is wrong with the political system and that we offer constructive solutions. (and maybe we need to elaborate them first yet a little bit to come with something that can convince people, even if elections are not close)

With respect to platforms like loomio, ... there is no holy solution. As politics talks on another level than just the rational arguments, the loomio/citizenlab/getopinionated/liquiddemocracy/.. is by definition not ideal. But thinking from this fact would be a great way to try to find another one where you can vote in emotions next to pure arguments.

(so we have an idea what arguments do to people's feelings)

IB

Ilja Baert Thu 30 May 2019

@vanecx anything goes to me also means not shooting down proposed ideas ;) If someone wants to spend time advertising on certain platforms, it's their time to spend.

(and even though I'm probably a day late:)
For social media marketing, I would propose to not just use them as a way to promote ourselves, but also alternatives we believe in, including other platforms (like the fediverse). I would very much like to see a link to fedi in each profile page on any of our centralised accounts for example.

Another thing in this regard I would like to have is setting up guidelines on how to act on accounts in name of the ppbe

IB

Ilja Baert Thu 30 May 2019

In case I can still make braindumps:

Some people feel we should work on working out our 'points' more. This IMO is a trap that a lot of parties fall into and people start to expect. I propose instead of working out points for certain problems, to put more effort into the message that people should be part of the decision-making process , which also means that the 'complete' solutions can never come from us as a party/small group of people. As an extend to this message, we can also bring the message that a party that does bring complete solutions to the table is not democratic at all.

FT

Frank Thunderwood Thu 30 May 2019

Since the pirate party is a modern party my idea relates to the future.

Because in the future, definitely in the far future, all work gets done by robots en machines and then all the governments will have to make money out of nothing for all the civilians who no longer have to work. When all governments print money without inflation. And then everyone will realise that all the governments could have made money out of nothing much earlier for the necessary and useful things in their annual estimates and that by doing so they could have gotten rid of all taxes. And this also without causing inflation.
https://wiki.pirateparty.be/The_abolition_of_all_taxes

CC

Christophe Cop Mon 3 Jun 2019

Thanks all for the contributions.

Indeed, this is an ongoing braindump, so no need to start discussing any of the ideas. In a late phase, we will ask pirates to just pick their favourites or those that they think are most feasible.
So no reason to waste time and effort opposing something.