Loomio
February 25th, 2014 16:50

Like functionality

vijay koogu
vijay koogu Public Seen by 105

Like functionality is very slow. Try clicking on like button on https://www.joindiaspora.com/stream ... try clicking again n again you'll come to know what i wanted to say.

goob

goob February 25th, 2014 17:05

This isn't really a matter of policy or community governance, which is what Loomio is for. If you think this is a bug and others have confirmed it, Github is the place. However, if you're on joindiaspora.com, it's probably a problem with the performance of that notoriously poor-performing pod rather than a bug in Diaspora's core code, so there's no point reporting it in Github. You just need to move to a better pod!

See https://wiki.diasporafoundation.org/How_to_report_a_bug for the future.

DU

[deactivated account] February 25th, 2014 17:08

Are you trying to report a bug?

I don't have an account on JD so I can't click 'Like'.

Is this not a performance issue with either the server response and/or the client browser performance?

I notice no lag or delay what so ever on the DG2 pod when clicking 'Like'.

vijay koogu

vijay koogu February 25th, 2014 17:47

@rich1 (Are you trying to report a bug?) no im not, i was reading about new features on ( https://www.loomio.org/g/EseV9p4X/diaspora-community ) so i thought first to improve the functionality which already exists and then move on to new features..

Ryuno-Ki

Ryuno-Ki February 25th, 2014 19:51

Liking on Geraspora is somewhat sluggish, too …

So maybe, big pods are affected?

Ryuno-Ki

Ryuno-Ki February 27th, 2014 23:41

First, I discovered an old discussion about liking comments here, today.

Second, @jasonrobinson shared a post on diaspora* today, which was written by @rasmusfuhse …

Notable, this opinion:

At the end is the experience: blubber is not a marketing-driven network that wants to make money and create like-statistics to get marketing profiles it can sell to customers. Blubber only wants to be a tool for communication and collaboration and doesn’t need likes. Blubber is not facebook. So I simply left it away.

I think, we should consider this here, too. Blubber was the social network written by Rasmus.

Rasmus Fuhse

Rasmus Fuhse February 28th, 2014 09:39

I don't think we can take the likes away from the diaspora-users. For a collaborative network likes are useless, but for a #catcontent-network (and yeah, diaspora is that) likes are necessary to the users.

But to be egoistic: I wouldn't mind if someone erases the like-feature. Was that your intention, Ryuno-Ki?

goob

goob February 28th, 2014 10:18

I don’t think we can take the likes away from the diaspora-users.

You're probably right, but I wish we could... I hate them. And I agree with you that they are for marketing/advertising/revenue generation/page ranking, none of which diaspora does, and are useless for actual communication. It's another thing in which I wish diaspora would 'dare to be different', but it seems there's a fear of upsetting users, who naturally expect what they know in Facebook/Twitter to be present in another network.

vijay koogu

vijay koogu March 1st, 2014 03:38

i really like how (https://github.com/discourse/discourse) is doing things. Diaspora need client side framework to speed things up.

Jason Robinson

Jason Robinson March 1st, 2014 14:04

Don't take my likes away :( I'd love comment likes to come back too :)

Ryuno-Ki

Ryuno-Ki March 13th, 2014 06:54

@rasmusfuhse My intention was, to start a discussion (maybe fired up by the podmins on diaspora*?) about why users want to "like" posts (and comments).

Maybe it's simply a lack of awareness of these marketing background. And after all, Piwik was removed due to a similar reason.

Rasmus Fuhse

Rasmus Fuhse March 13th, 2014 09:46

Well, I wouldn't compare likes with piwik, because the liking is a user-feature and piwik is a feature for the admin. In fact piwik has nothing to do with diaspora itself and should only be set up by the admin, if he/she wants to.

But yeah, I agree that the discussion might be useful.

A

Adrenalin March 19th, 2014 12:46

Agreeing with @jasonrobinson

Don’t take the likes away :((

I’d love comment likes to come back too :))

Maciek Łoziński

Maciek Łoziński March 20th, 2014 09:40

My 2 cents about likes. If we abandoned likes, I'm pretty sure we get into massive "awesome!", "I like it." or "wow" comments explosion. Moreover, I like the way Facebook utilises likes - giving more liked/commented posts more display. While in most cases it's not needed (a snowball effect + filtering bubble), knowing what's "hot" on the network would be nice.

M

morgenstern March 20th, 2014 19:50

@macieklozinski I agree with you.

I think that the like functionality as it works now is pretty useless: ok, you can boost the ego of the user who posted the post you like, that's all.

Instead, i'd find it very useful if it could improve a post's visibility. Basically it's (partly) what i suggested in the "Updated Stream" suggestion in another thread.

goob

goob March 20th, 2014 21:17

No..... I hate it when posts which are more 'popular' have more visibility. That's one of the bad Facebook/Reddit/Google type behaviours.

However, one possibility would be to add a stream filter 'Popular posts', which ranked posts according to numbers of likes/comments/reshares, in the way that My Activity ranks by time of most recent activity. I wouldn't mind that, because it wouldn't affect the ranking of posts in other streams.

M

morgenstern March 20th, 2014 21:29

@goob that's exactly my idea: just an opt in feature or a different stream...

Rasmus Fuhse

Rasmus Fuhse March 21st, 2014 05:31

Actually the real popularity of a posting would be something like this
(likes + comments * 2) / (contacts of the user).

Even better would be not to divide by the number of contacts but to take the mathematical distribution of likes for postings of that user in the last months and calculate if the given posting is higher or lower with likes + comments than the average.

But imagine this complex calculation in an sql-statement and how the database would go down with hundreds of requests over huge tables. Ahhh!

I'd say, let the users themselves decide which posting is popular and which isn't by looking at it. But there is still the problem, that some users don't want to see all postings by all their contacts. We could solve that by enabling customized streams for users, so that users could filter some postings tagged with a hashtag #catcontent away. But that is a different discussion and not about likes anymore.

goob

goob March 21st, 2014 12:37

I’d say, let the users themselves decide which posting is popular and which isn’t by looking at it.

Well, I'd say 'Let users decide which post is worth looking at and which isn't by looking at it, regardless of how 'popular' it might be. I think maybe that's your point as well. :-)

M

morgenstern March 21st, 2014 13:28

@goob It could work as far as you have just few posts to check; if you have many posts you cannot always take the time to check them all before choosing which one is worth reading...

goob

goob March 28th, 2014 17:38

Hey @rasmusfuhse I appreciate the irony of you liking my post saying how much I hate 'likes'! :-)

Rasmus Fuhse

Rasmus Fuhse March 28th, 2014 19:42

Liking is a kind of contradiction. That's what I've always said.

fr33domlover

fr33domlover June 17th, 2014 09:42

I agree with the opinions here about likes being a marketing tool and not actually useful for human communication.

I was talking about removing them long time ago in D*, should have come here earlier... I thought I was alone :-)

One thing I want to add to the discussion: I don't think a huge stream of "I like it" or "Cool" would be bad. I would actually make people question the robotic way Faceb00k/G00gle made them communicate, and realize how absurd and actually useless that feature is.

If this move is communicated well and publicly annouced, people could understand. You could start by annoucing the idea on the pods and asking people to come here and express a serious opinion - or at least talk in D* - and then you'd know better what people think.

Remember people can always just type the word "Like" and press enter - you can even make a shortcut button for it - would still be a comment, still make people feel it's weird and question the use of Likes.

D351

D351 June 17th, 2014 15:25

I think that the Like function is one of those standards created by facebook that people expect to see in social networking. While some people may like the idea of getting rid of it, the average person (I assume we’d like a larger percent of the population) would just see it as one more thing that FB has that D* doesn’t. And if you give them a philosophical reason for it, that will only serve as a further turn-off, as most people don’t want to get involved on a philosophical level with the technology they’re using. It’s one of the reasons that many people hesitate to use free software; it feels like a philosophical commitment. A product that operates under a philosophy but markets itself as a product can do well, but a product that operates under a philosophy and markets itself as a movement is off-putting and gives off cult vibes. I think it'd be great if Linux and it's many distros would learn this lesson.

fr33domlover

fr33domlover June 17th, 2014 18:35

@d351mims
It's true that many people, maybe most, value convenience above freedom, sharing and privacy. But if the Like button remains for the reasons you mentioned, we'll be supporting this situation instead of helping change it.

Do you really think people can't do better than just use what's fastest, easiest and shiniest?

It's not exact science, but I believe humans can be better than this. If you teach them step by step, they will learn and open their mind and change the way they make decisions and use services.

Diaspora* is about openness and freedom. There is no competition, because D* is not about money or popularity. Having users who just expect an FB clone defeats the whole purpose, doesn't it? Making convenience the top priority would make D* just another social network.

Due to the fact D* is not committed legally or commercially to anything and anyone, it has a huge power Faceb00k and G00gle don't - it can experiment, innovate and even collaborate with its own users openly. If there's no good reason in terms of functionality to have the Like button but there are views against it - let's at least run a pilot on one pod and gather feedback.

"What people expect" is how greedy companies make decisions. D* is not like that :-)

D351

D351 June 17th, 2014 21:15

I thought that the entire point of software was convenience. Otherwise, we could just write our friends a mass email, or better yet a letter, rather than have social networking sites in the first place. Why make the experience of moving people to a place where their privacy is kept more in their control more jarring than it need be? What is there to be gained from getting rid of this feature? Sure, try it on a trial pod. I just don't think your ideals will provide the mass adoption necessary to make a social network successful. Business or not, if we want people to move to a safer and wiser option, it has to have some level of appeal beyond telling the user that you'd rather change their expectations than create something that meets those expectations. The user is weighing the gains for their privacy and control against the inconvenience of switching to a site that doesn't have all of their friends on it already and lacks many of the features they're used to. Diaspora* is not in a position to change those expectations, as it lacks the kind of following required to establish a new set of norms.

fr33domlover

fr33domlover June 18th, 2014 18:37

The point of software is not convenience, but the ability to solve problems faster, especially in the sense of reducing order of growth. For example, sending a mass email takes the user O(1) time with a mouse click but O(n) when writing n copies of the same physical letter.

I also think success is not defined by how many users you have, but how well your software solves the functional problems. However, to me the idea of what kind of society I'd like to see on this planet is more important than any convenience and any features. But that's just me.

Recognizing many people would miss the button, I suggest the button is removed on a trial pod with a proper announcement.

I have an answer to your question: The experience people have moving here should first of all free them and create a new environment where their privacy is above someone's profit. If they just want the convenience, why even try to lure them with Like buttons? If it succeeds and D* becomes popular with this kind of thinking, it will be filled with faceb00k addicted users who want to see a faceb00k clone.

I think at some point the button should be removed anyway, because of all the points people mentioned and the robotic lonely-behind-the-keyboard way it makes people "communicate". And removing it early is better, before you have tons of users like faceb00k has.

Does anyone else think it's worth trying on one pod to get the feeling?

Ivan Gabriel Morén

Ivan Gabriel Morén June 30th, 2014 18:46

Hm, I'm trying to see this from a social outside of computer point of view. When people are communicating in smaller groups, the [comment] like functionality functions like the small sounds we actually do to express that we agree, something like "uh-huh" or "mh" (this is really hard to explain in english ;) In a discussion they're not really that important, the comments talks for themselves.

Post-likes have another purpose though. I think of them as applauses. If a musician that has performed a song gets feedback from each one in the audience individually one after another, it would take a lot of time to find out all the opinions. Most would just say "nice played", at least after the fifth or sixth song. That's why applauses are convenient, people can show their appreciation and still come by and comment afterwards if they found something interesting.

I agree that the "hunt" for likes that can be seen on facebook/diaspora is sad, and it would be cool to switch our thinking so that people focus less on numbers and more on communicating, but likes still play a social role.