Why the distinction between "Disagree" and "Block"?
The first time I used Loomio I was right away confused by the distinction between Disagree and Block when voting on "decisions".
If I support the proposal, I "Agree".
If I don't have an opinion, I "Abstain".
If I reject the proposal, I "Disagree".
Why the need for a "Block" decision? If I disagree, of course I want to block it, it's implied! If I find the need to detail my "disagree" I'll leave a comment. Breaking up the votes into two simillar choices seems counter-productive and counter-intuitive to me.
Tim McNamara
Wed 22 Oct 2014 7:46PM
Simplicity forces coherence and eases comprehension. They are crude, but effective labels.
Joshua Vial
Wed 22 Oct 2014 9:14PM
I agree that giving admin options is a good thing but think that it is better to do this with plugins than customising the existing widget.
Benjamin Knight
Wed 22 Oct 2014 10:11PM
I really like the idea of customising button labels (and lots of people have asked for it) - provided the UX is really good and doesn't get in the way of current core functionality
Pierre-Yves
Thu 23 Oct 2014 8:05PM
This would be an interesting feature (in our groups block has the same weight as disagree. It's just a way for a user to show his/her strong disagreement but it doesn't block the proposal)
Ed Galligan
Thu 23 Oct 2014 11:29PM
This is possibly something that could be looked at down the line, but I think initially Loomio would be better off with clear, concise, well-defined elements rather than feature-creep on user choice.
Ed Galligan Sun 19 Oct 2014 6:15PM
@diogonunes some brief responses to your comment above, in the interest of fleshing out this discussion a bit more:
Voting choices should be objective and limited. That’s why referendums have Yes or No
I think there's a fundamental misconception here from the beginning that a proposal/decision is a "vote" similar to a referendum, with a clear "winner" and "loser". Traditional referenda are - in their nature - divisive and restrictive. What you seem to be perceiving as an advantage of referenda (clear, concise binary choices) many see as being their major flaw. In general, I think consensus decision-making methods are an attempt to redress these major flaws in traditional democracy, emphasising compromise, discussion and often the creation of and agreement on various "3rd-ways" instead of the restriction to simplisitic Yes/No options that can create conflict and competition between group factions.
10% Abstain, 40% Yes, 30% No, 20% Block - Yes wins.
This is a misunderstanding of what a block represents. For the purpose of explanation in the terms you're using, in this case "No" wins, as the blocks act as effective vetoes (to use traditional terminology).
However, in consensus, the idea of sides "winning" and "losing" should be dissuaded in general, and blocks will typically not play out as vetoes in reality - rather they are opportunities to revisit and renegotiate the proposal.
Diogo Nunes Sun 19 Oct 2014 6:40PM
I can see your point, and you're probably right. I don't have the consensus mindset just yet, since I came from developing a similar app with only +1 and -1 votes. Give me time :P
Frederick Stark Sun 19 Oct 2014 6:45PM
I do think consensus mode should be optional (but default), for groups that use different decision making processes.
Right now Loomio doesn't really suit the processes of non-consesnus groups.
elaineX Sun 19 Oct 2014 8:37PM
Disagree is as important as the block, used in different context. I can support certain things when i disagree on things like process. On principles the disagree may become a hard block. Both are great help in defining and bringing a consensus based group into deeper solidarity on the real issues.
Ed Galligan · Sun 19 Oct 2014 5:36PM
Block is one of the most important aspects of consensus decision making imo - it doesn't quite solve, but definitely goes along way toward mitigating the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority ensuring well-operating groups go out of their way to accomodate views of all inidividuals, not just of large "voting blocks".
On minor note - the "reason" textarea is currently optional, which I think is good for most positions, but it should be mandatory for a block.