Sun 21 Jun 2015

Wiki - General Discussion - Open

Kevin Flanagan Public Seen by 396

The purpose of this Loomio forum is for P2P Foundation Wiki users to be able to introduce themselves, be social, get to know each other, find common interests and organise to update and maintain the wiki.

As on all our forums we expect participants to respect our community guidelines - http://p2pfoundation.net/Recommended_Guidelines_and_Good_Practices

Kevin Flanagan is the P2P Foundation Community Coordinator and is currently moderator of the thread. Feel free to contact Kevin with any questions and for assistance.


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On the P2P wiki we have country and language categories. It can be useful to add the country category tag for example for me it's [[Category:Ireland]] to your personal user page on the wiki. This will make it easier for users from the same country to find and connect with you as they can search the country category for users you can collaborate on updating country or language specific categories.


Kevin Flanagan Thu 16 Jul 2015

Hi @nicolasstampf welcome you are the first to join our wiki loomio group :) our aim here is to support a more active community of wiki contributors. I see from your profile that you are interested in facilitation would be great to learn a little more about what you do. As you may know we have a P2P Summer School next month which will use the Art of Hosting. http://cultivate.ie/community-resilience/1246-p2p-summer-school


Nicolas Stampf Thu 16 Jul 2015

I'm Nicolas Stampf (http://p2pfoundation.net/User:Nicolas_Stampf) and interested in all stuff related to small to large group facilitation, (strength-based) coaching.

My life long term goal is to teach the world how to co-create. A stepping stone for this purpose is the Labso (laboratory of social technology) which I help co-create with a colleague: http://labso.org which could be summarized as strength-based facilitation techniques released in open-source (facilitation techniques, like information, wants to be free!)

IMHO, P2P works well with people who intuitively know how to behave to achieve results with it (empathy, forgetting, listening mixed with assertivity, personal agency...) but a real key skill is to teach that to those that aren't acustomed to it. Funnily, it's a skill all people have to some extent (unless you have autism, that is) because people already know how to get along with others.

I'm interested in other P2P stuff as well, but lack enough proficiency to step up as wiki contributor (digital currencies, commons...)


Nicolas Stampf Thu 16 Jul 2015

@kevinflanagan: Although I'm officially into Lean management, I also do a lot of other stuff. Mostly for now I've been tasked of 1) creating an ISO 9001 Governance Process to align all of the company onto the same strategy (will take a few years to gather the wandering sheeps) and 2) propose a new internal governance system. I'm looking at sociocracy 3.0 for now (www.sociocracy30.org).

But my interest is mostly in helping people help themselves through facilitation and coaching. I know AoH, I've been trained into Appreciative Inquiry, learned Solution Focus on my own and other facilitation techniques (including Liberating Structures which I like a lot).

Our aim with the Labso is two folds: 1) provide a basic set of principles so that people can live their lives using the labso philosophy and increase their thrivability and that of others around them and 2) be a workshop format used during events (like the P2P Summer School, which I won't attend, sorry :) much like the components of AoH.

Our basic principles are that people are intrinsically motivated by their strengths, which are: the Vision of where they want to lead their life (also: heart/why), their Ideas of how to get there (also: head/how) and their successful past Experiences toward that goal (also: hand/what). And that these 3 kinds of strengths, which work best together can be greatly amplified by using social networks (preferably face to face encounters). So learning how to deal with others as persons and connect with their strengths is critical yet somehow easy to do.

This is what we demonstrate during our workshops (often on a specific issue which we let people solve themselves using our labso facilitation).

Just like in AI, it all starts with the first question you ask. P2P is, I'm convinced, a great answer and probably the future of humanity. But if we want more people to embark in the movement and accelerate it (though momentum is growing exponentially it seems), we need to find the right question for people, one that elicit good (attractive) memories for themselves, which elicits their own paths and validates their successful experiences (ie, nothing to learn, they already know how to do it to some extent).

We haven't investigated much into promoting the labso yet apart from the website (available in french and english), but I hope we'll do better after the summer.

And of course, the best way to promite ideas, concepts and tools is to make them freely available, which we will always do with the labso (currently CC-BY-SA).

So I'd say our approach isn't much for existing members of the P2P movement/foundation (it would be preaching to the choir, although it might shine new light to otherwise instinctive practices), but a tool I'm convinced these people could use to convert others to the P2P approach...

This is the kind of field where I'd like to contribute more. Obviously. Given the length of this message. :-)


Kevin Flanagan Thu 16 Jul 2015

Thank you @nicolasstampf . When it comes to wikis this idea is to contribute to the areas where you feel you have something to offer. So in this P2P way we co-create our knowledge commons. We each give a little but all benefit from the collective work. For example there may be items in the Facilitation category that could do with review or updating.


Nicolas Stampf Thu 16 Jul 2015

Are there ways to easily check the validity of links in the wiki (inside and outside links)?


Kevin Flanagan Thu 16 Jul 2015

I met James Priest briefly who is involved with Sociocracy3.0 a few months back and would also like to learn more about it.
You may well feel that you are preaching to the converted but the way I see it in a world where competition and self interest are placed above all else living in a P2P way and Commoning are absolutely necessary 'practices' for reconnecting with and rediscovering community and collective agency. None of us know it all. We all have things to offer and all have things we can learn from one another.
There are plenty of folks working with p2p who can benefit from the kind of reflective process that facilitation offers.


Nicolas Stampf Thu 16 Jul 2015

I'm in contact with James and Bernhard too. They're quite busy for now.
None of us know it all. We all have things to offer and all have things we can learn from one another.

This is what I meant by "preaching to the choir": P2P people already know this, though some might think they know best than others on more subjcets. The reality is that we all know more than others on different subjects. Not all of them we present to others. It depends on the situation.

Let's just contribute and share and build commons. The rest will follow.


claude saint-jarre Thu 16 Jul 2015

Herllo. For Micnel Bauwens!

16 juillet 2015-07-16
À monsieur Bertrand Piccard, auteur du livre Changer d’altitude, et co-inventeur de l’avion solaire Solar Impulse – qui dites que nous avons présentement toutes les technologies propres nécessaires pour économiser 50% de la consommation mondiale d’énergie, pour produire 25% de nouvelle énergie propre et que ce faisant, nous pouvons vivre confortablement, en tirant un bénéfice et en créant des emplois- et à monsieur Michel Bauwens, auteur du livre Sauver le monde vers une économie post-capitaliste avec le peer-to-peer – qui dites dans un vidéo, que 80 personnes, ont pu en quelques mois , grâce à internet et le travail collaboratif, faire le design d’une voiture qui consomme de 5 à 7 fois moins d’essence- : bonjour! Vous savez que Buckminster Fuller, dans son livre de 1981, Critical Path, surtout aux pages 262-263, a montré que, suite à un calcul fait en 1981 selon lequel il en coûte à la nature un million de dollars pour produire un gallon de pétrole, lorsque tous les travailleurs de l’Humanité qui se rendent au travail en brûlant 3-4 gallons de pétrole et gaspillant en fait 19 quadrillions de dollars quotidiennement, recevraient au lieu d’aller travailler chacun 400, 000 dollars par jour pour rester à la maison, ce serait mieux du point de vue de la nature et du point de vue de cette comptabilité cosmique.
Mais, en 2015, si, les mêmes travailleurs( ou d’autres) allaient travailler avec la dite nouvelle voiture plus économique- soyons généreux, disons 5 fois plus économique plutôt que 7-, le gaspil serait réduit à 5.8 quadrillions de dollars, réalisant donc en une seule journée, une économie de 13.2 quadrillions de dollars, un économie réelle, mais non comptabilisée présentement.
Prenons une échelle plus petite : 100 personnes qui ont acheté la voiture nouvelle vague vont travailler et consomment chaque jour .8 gallon de pétrole plutôt que quatre. C’est une économie de 3.2 gallons de pétrole, soit 3.2 millions de dollars ou 300.2 millions de dollars , pour 100 personnes. Cette économie virtuelle, investie dans la production industrielle réelle ( une petite industrie avec imprimantes 3D, un gros Fab Lab) fait produire par nos 80 designers, une nouvelle cohorte de 200 voitures, très vites vendues. Nous voilà maintenant avec 200 fois, 300.2 millions de dollars d’épargnés chaque jour, qui donnent en dix jours, 60 milliards de dollars. Les choix abondent : faire quelques milliers d’autres voitures, attendre un ou deux mois pour atteindre une couple de trillions de dollars ou jouer avec les chiffres et les productions industrielles, si bien qu’il devient rapidement possible , de nourrir l’Humanité, de la loger et de la transporter, puis de l’éduquer par des vidéos que relaient la télévision, de sorte que la PZIT et le BIB peu après, se réaliseront. ( pauvreté zéro internationale et bonheur international brut).
Nous venons de voir qu’à partir d’une économie virtuelle et d’un investissement virtuel dans une production réelle, il y a eu une production t de résultats réels, de sorte qu’une nouvelle arithmétique reflétant une nouvelle science communautaire peut nous sortir de crise.
Mais, pour l’instant, cela n’est possible que dans l’imagination car le passage du virtuel au réel pourtant si facile, ne peut se faire aussi facilement dans la réalité vu la culture humaine actuelle non préparée.
Car, il manque une articulation structurante scientifique d’ordre mathématique pour faire un passage facile du virtuel au réel. Pouvez-vous, messieurs, y mettre de la lumière?
Je vous remercie,
Claude Saint-Jarre 


Kevin Flanagan Thu 16 Jul 2015

Pardon @claudesaintjarre Je ne parle Francais.
J'utilise Google Traduction. Michel parle français et peut-être rejoindre la semaine prochaine. Ce groupe se concentre sur le développement du wiki de la fondation de p2p. Si vous voulez, je peux vous présenter aux membres francophones de la fondation. S'il vous plaît envoyez-moi un email kevin@p2pfoundation.net vous pouvez également visiter la section de langue française du wiki.


Nicolas Stampf Thu 16 Jul 2015

Je parle français / I speak french / Mi parolas esperanton / notions of Blissymbolics ;)


Kevin Flanagan Thu 16 Jul 2015

Hello and welcome @pierro78,

Can you introduce yourself a little.

Well now it seems I am outnumbered here not speaking French :)

@claudesaintjarre and @nicolasstampf you might also be interested in @pierro78 's wiki own French language wiki http://wiki.gentilsvirus.org/


claude saint-jarre Thu 16 Jul 2015

Hello. I live near Montréal. I do much volunteer work. I am a social worker
wit a masters degree but I did not work much in this field. I have alco been a
natural foods cook. I am studying a philosophy of joy, which originates from
here. I studien a lot the work of Buckminster Fuller. I am a futurist and a
presentist! I have one adult kid.
I read Michel Bauwens book, the book of Bollier, I would like to do a
“Commons breakfast”.
good day to you!


Kevin Flanagan Thu 16 Jul 2015

Hello @nicolasstampf you can use this for checking links in any webpage for example - https://validator.w3.org/checklink?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fp2pfoundation.net%2FCategory%3AFacilitation&hide_type=all&depth=&check=Check


Kevin Flanagan Wed 22 Jul 2015

Hi I would just like to welcome the new members of the group and invite you to say a few words about yourself and the aspects of P2P and the commons that are of interest to you and if there are particular sections of the wiki of interest.


[deactivated account] Sun 26 Jul 2015

Hi everyone,

I'm Raph, a french-american by passport and definitely french by accent and political ideology. I recently finished studying international relations and I just got a job in Washington, DC. I'll be working for Build A Movement, an organization training pro-democracy activists to nonviolent methods. I'm also in the process of launching Mix Eat Up, a meal-sharing platform (which I am setting up as a truly cooperative platform, unlike Airbnb and others). I got into the open and transition movements by first learning about open government during my studies and, at the same time, by looking for ways to reduce my environmental footprint.

I sought to join the P2P Foundation after exploring the possibility of starting my own wiki to index and describe all the practical initiatives around the world that would fall under the label 'post-capitalism'. The idea was 1. to provide the resources for individuals who are looking for concrete ways to transition and 2. to help transition entrepreneurs find like-minded projects to cooperate with. I am convinced that a wiki for all post-capitalist projects and ideas could help consolidate the transition movement and I thought Commons Transitions could be this go-to website.

Today, it seems to me that CT is primarily designed for thinkers and policy-makers. Articles are very long and full of political jargon. Clearly, this is very important to influence policy-making. But I believe CT could fulfill a second, complementary mission: help people change the way their live their everyday lives by exposing them to all the post-capitalist initiatives out there.

For example, someone who needs to get furnitures and looks for alternatives to capitalist corporations would be directed to open design platforms like opendesk.cc. Someone who wants to build an eco-friendly house could look on the wiki for organizations which share designs, construction methods, etc. And people who are thinking of starting a particular project could find out about other people elsewhere working on similar issues, and join forces with them instead of setting up their own initiative.

This, in a nutshell, is the project I'd like to work on at CT (though on the long-run I'd be interested in working on other things).

Looking forward to working with you all!


pierro78 Tue 28 Jul 2015

Hi all,

I am french also ...
Thanks all for sharing all this interesting info ! :)

As for myself we are building a wiki about or around democracy (which I could define as p2p political governance of a society and its institutions) , you can find some info on my user page : http://p2pfoundation.net/User:Pierro78
(I ve started to be formally interested in the question "how do we better get together to build a better world ?" as you can also see on my user page so it s nice to read about work you guys are doing around the subject :) )


Kevin Flanagan Tue 28 Jul 2015

Welcome @pierro78


Danyl Strype Thu 24 Oct 2019

I'm Danyl Strype, a co-founder of the Aotearoa sections of Indymedia and CreativeCommons. For more than a decade now, I've maintained a blog and wiki at Disintermedia.net.nz (currently hosted by CoActivate.org), which focuses mainly on free code software, free culture, open hardware, and tech rights issues, but also aligned movements like permaculture and transition, and how all these movements share some commons-based ideas and practices about organizing, producing, and sharing social goods, challenging polluters and privatizers of the commons and so on. I'm gradually porting Disintermedia pages that seem sympatico with the P2PF mission into its wiki, and more recently creating new pages on the P2PF wiki instead of mine.

I haven't made much time to be active in this group, because Loomio 1.0 doesn't run very well on my very old laptop. So instead I've been commenting in the talk pages on the wiki itself, a la Wikipedia practice. But now I have a more powerful laptop, and access to the (hopefully) more efficient Loomio 2.0 beta, I intend to start using Loomio more often. For projects I'm more actively involved in, I might also make sure I'm getting email notifications filtered to a dedicated folder.

@asimong and I exchanged some ideas on my talk recently about formatting conventions on the P2PF wiki. Perhaps these are the sorts of things we could discuss here and see what consensus exists?


Danyl Strype Mon 28 Oct 2019

One other thing, I'd like to more formally join the P2PF as a member, and either wind up Disintermedia completely, or fold into the P2PF as an R&D organ with a special focus on software and other technological expressions of P2P/ commons. I've requested to join the parent group of this subgroup, but my membership is still pending. Is there a formal membership process I need to apply to, and if so, how do I do that?


Simon Grant Sun 3 May

No one answered you @Danyl Strype 😕 AFAIK there is no existing 'membership' for P2PF contributors -- I'm not a 'member' of anything formally. Just a contributor. If, however, we were to get together a proposal for some kind of 'guild of P2P contributors' that might be worth floating -- what do you think?


Michel Bauwens Mon 4 May

Dear Stripey,

First of all, thanks for all the great work you have been doing outside and inside the p2p foundation and its wiki, it's an amazing work of digital librarianship,

Stacco in cc used to take care of Loomio admin requests, but not sure he is still responding, so he is in cc,

Simon, do you think you could take over that function , since you seem active in Loomio; I am definitely not, and am trying to remove myself from these kinds of functions due to be totally overwhelmed

P2P Foundation doesn't really have any formal members, but we have a 'research network' that is coordinated by Jose Ramos, who is in cc here, this is probably the best option; if you need some video meeting on this, I'd be happy to participate