Loomio
August 29th, 2013 18:38

Organising photos

goob
goob Public Seen by 780

It would be good to discuss ideas for how to organise photos in Diaspora. I've seen two ideas proposed so far: Facebook-style 'albums' and using tags to organise photos.

It would be interesting to hear people's views on the merits and drawbacks of these and any other ideas you have for organising photos.

Faldrian

Faldrian August 29th, 2013 18:49

I don't think of Diaspora as a photo-organizing website. Putting photos into posts is important, but for organized photos there are things like flickr, owncloud, mediagoblin or other services, that are dedicated to managing albums.

Also I don't think we should encourage users to put their large blob content on diaspora-servers - so that podmins won't have to fear the big space usage this would bringt with it. Diaspora should not be a filehoster. :)

Just my 2 cents.

Tom Scott

Tom Scott August 29th, 2013 19:06

@faldrian not sure how many other podmins do this, but even as a solo pod maintainer...all of my files/assets are stored on S3 anyway.

Faldrian

Faldrian August 29th, 2013 19:08

@tomscott I know podmins that have their pod on their own machines, so that they keep physical control of their hardware.

Balasankar C

Balasankar C August 29th, 2013 19:48

I think, we should make linking with existing photo-managing-sites more easy and flexible. So that users can upload there and access from here. Saves disk space on server.. :)

Sean Tilley

Sean Tilley August 29th, 2013 22:25

One thing that might be a nice feature would be an API integration for sending and storing photos to places like MediaGoblin or TroveBox, but we'd need to get an official API going for Diaspora first.

T

Torsti August 29th, 2013 23:00

I agree with Sean, offloading the management of photos to a service outside of D* could be an option Why recreate functionality provided by these free/open services being developed just for the purpose?

Given that TroveBox tries to make it easy to import your photos from other places, there'd probably no need to additionally support the various non-free/open photo services directly.

With MediaGoblin integration we wouldn't be limited to posting photos, but could post videos & sound, or maybe even any type of media MediaGoblin can handle - that would be something.

It would be no trivial task to get all that working smoothly and at least MediaGoblin's API does not seem to be exactly stable.

goob

goob August 29th, 2013 23:01

Oh, that pesky API again...

cyclux

cyclux August 30th, 2013 10:12

An external service sounds like a good idea!
I would prefer following features:
-Implemented usage (no external site to login needed)
-privacy (!) related trustful service

PH

Paul Hill August 31st, 2013 18:30

I like idea of albums. Don't want to change my mindset.

PH

Paul Hill August 31st, 2013 18:31

Also mediagoblin might be a good idea as stated by others

Flaburgan

Flaburgan August 31st, 2013 19:56

I do not agree here, I think we need a way to organize photos, even posts, in diaspora. And that's what tags are for. For me, what we need is a way to make queries on posts.

So an "album" could be simply all the photos with the #fosdem2013 tag, or #fosdem2013 && posted_by(fla). These kind of queries are completely needed.

Trolli Schmittlauch

Trolli Schmittlauch August 31st, 2013 21:34

Social Networks are often used for sharing photos. Diaspora is the place where I organize my relationships in aspects so it would be nice to use these aspects as acces control to certain lists of photos (e.g. albums).
So either external services can integrate into the concept of aspects or this feature has to be put directly into Diaspora*.

Dee Baumdeesaster

Dee Baumdeesaster September 4th, 2013 15:52

I use and want to use d* as my social network and I don't want my fotos being outsourced fo another hoster.
Therefore I upload fotos on diaspora and having albums would help me organizing them.
For example upload many pictures in an album and sharing this in a post. At the moment there's still a bug: You can upload as many pictures as you want - all are shown in "fotos" on the profile - but only the first eight pictures are shown in the post.

And many people ask for this feature. Especially users coming from facebook are missing it.

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen September 8th, 2013 06:52

I think we need a photo album feature inside diaspora. Optionally it could be outsourced to other services.

O

OpenLifeChallenge September 8th, 2013 07:57

Definitely some kind of photo-album viewer but tags to organise them more effectively is also important.

Maciek Łoziński

Maciek Łoziński September 14th, 2013 10:24

Diaspora is so great because it's decentralized and you own your data. It would be great to have photos managed that way. Outsourcing the albums could be a nice addition, but I think it's very important to also have it done properly in Diaspora.

Anish Sheela

Anish Sheela September 16th, 2013 11:57

I would recommend to go via facebook style albums.

Airon90

Airon90 October 6th, 2013 08:43

Why don't take advantage of albums and tags?
I think that tag search would be done also restricted on photos and adding a photo (and video) section where to organize the content by album

PG

Paul Greindl October 6th, 2013 15:51

Hi!

Finally time to join the discussion :)

I need to say, as a photographer, albums is a must have! And some kind of efficient tagging system would make the whole thing even better. To not only come with demands I would like to suggest a, at least temporary, solution as well.

I would suggest implementing an album into the user profile and then link to a photo, or album, in the according post. It would be cool to be able to link likes and comments to photos/albums but I don't really know how this should be done. Then I would not sync photos between pods but rather, as it is done now, hotlink them. This is both more efficient and gives the user better control over her/his data.

I would like to give some attention to the openphoto project as I see their software as a solution for our albums. They support comments, likes and do even have a tag system. I think you can also release albums to a limited group, this could be paired with Diasporas aspects. It would be cool if someone with more coding skills would look into this and check whether it's possible for us to use that software or not!

http://theopenphotoproject.org/ and of course it's open source.

Hope we can use this or similar software. That would decrease our work and speed up the process of implementing albums.

StarBlessed

StarBlessed October 13th, 2013 19:57

I'm glad Mediagoblin has been mentioned. I've donated part of my server to them for development. I think that GMG and Diaspora would be perfect partners. GMG has it over other systems, because it supports so many formats. I mean Youtube is great, but its not Opensource. Nor is it anything more than video. Now with Google looking to monetize even more of our personal content, I would be very wary about using something we cannot control. GMG supports Audio; Video; Images; Text; 3d Models... Could we ask for anything more?

D* really needs that API done. I know the devs struggle with it, but its the biggest thing holding back D*. Even if D* does not change for the next 2 years (apart from bug fixes), an API will push it to the next level.
I guarantee that there would be a huge outpouring of support from both sides of the fence if the API was completed. Even if it were just rudimentary.

Balasankar C

Balasankar C November 21st, 2013 07:49

Photo albums do play an important role in building the argument for a "social network". I don't think anyone will take the difficult path of joining diaspora + joining other sites for sharing photos. They can simply join any other existing social networking site where they can upload photos and share them in the same platform. And, from my experience, chat and photos are the two features that still forces users to stick to conventional social networking sites like Facebook even if they are aware of privacy infringement.

Why can't we have a photo album that has privacy options similar to posts? Each photo is a post that can be commented/shared.

Karthikeyan A K

Karthikeyan A K December 7th, 2013 02:49

+1 for albums

Flaburgan

Flaburgan December 7th, 2013 17:16

We should deal with that smartly, and use tags to regroup posts containing photos. We could also possibly use the old beta profile, which was really nice to display images.

D

dremodaris January 23rd, 2014 10:48

I'd like to add three things:
1) I completely agree with Balasankars last post.
2) An advantage of a tagged-post system over a directory system is that you can easily put one photo in multiple albums.
3) As a fix for the problem of adding new contacts, I propose the following: when you're viewing one of your aspects (i.e. the list of people in it), every contact would have a field for setting the point in time after which posts in this aspect are visible to the contact. By default, this time is set to the moment when you added the contact to the aspect, but you could move it back in time.
It would also make sense then, that, when you remove a contact from an aspect, he would remain there (greyed out), but with another field added, stating the time of removal (unless no post were made to this aspect during his being-in-it).
Finally, I think it would make sense if the poster could see which aspects he posted a post to (e.g. when hovering over "limited" - this information is already stored anyway, since you can filter your own posts by viewing different aspects). These features combined would make it 100% trackable whether person X can see post Y.

goob

goob started a proposal January 29th, 2014 14:08

Use #tags to organise uploaded photos Closed 8:10pm - Saturday 8 Feb 2014

Outcome
by goob April 25th, 2017 05:15

We will use tags as the basis for organising uploaded photos.

As proposed in the discussion, use Diaspora's #tag system to organise photos rather than using Facebook-style static albums.

Results
Agree - 23
Abstain - 3
Disagree - 7
Block - 0
33 people have voted (0%)
goob

goob January 29th, 2014 14:08

Have started a proposal to keep things moving.

Flaburgan

Flaburgan
Agree
January 29th, 2014 14:24

DU

[deactivated account]
Disagree
January 29th, 2014 15:17

IMHO we need both tags and albums, with ability to tag albums or individual photos to create 'themed' photo streams. Albums are more suitable for photos from specific events. Also,I don't find naming with tags convenient (e.g #southamericajanuar2014)

Jonne Haß

Jonne Haß
Agree
January 29th, 2014 15:26

Steffen van Bergerem

Steffen van Bergerem
Agree
January 29th, 2014 16:36

Dee Baumdeesaster

Dee Baumdeesaster
Abstain
January 29th, 2014 18:55

Erwan Guyader

Erwan Guyader
Agree
January 29th, 2014 19:17

Seth Martin

Seth Martin
Agree
January 29th, 2014 20:24

NicoAlto

NicoAlto
Agree
January 29th, 2014 21:06

DU

[deactivated account]
Agree
January 29th, 2014 21:29

goob

goob
Agree
January 29th, 2014 22:08

I think using tags gives plenty of flexibility, and fits in well with Diaspora's design and ethos.

SuperTux88

SuperTux88
Agree
January 30th, 2014 09:36

Karthikeyan A K

Karthikeyan A K
Agree
January 30th, 2014 10:08

Good idea!

Christos Koulaxizis

Christos Koulaxizis
Agree
January 30th, 2014 10:40

SP

Sebas Pedersen
Disagree
January 30th, 2014 17:12

A

AlexB
Agree
February 1st, 2014 16:50

Jason Robinson

Jason Robinson
Agree
February 1st, 2014 18:29

Sounds good :)

FÁBIÁN Tamás László

FÁBIÁN Tamás László
Agree
February 2nd, 2014 10:18

I think it's a good idea and has a lot of potential for future features.

QD

Quentin Dufour
Agree
February 2nd, 2014 11:09

I suppose tags are powerful enough.

Sean Tilley

Sean Tilley
Disagree
February 3rd, 2014 18:40

While I think we could probably leverage acts-as-taggable-on, maybe we should consider creating a new type of tag specifically for albums, and keep them separate from hashtags? That way those two things don't get mixed up in the system?

Maciek Łoziński

Maciek Łoziński
Agree
February 3rd, 2014 20:40

A

Adrenalin
Agree
February 4th, 2014 09:46

DU

[deactivated account]
Agree
February 5th, 2014 15:17

Airon90

Airon90
Disagree
February 5th, 2014 17:42

I prefer the Facebook way

PP

Patrick Pankotsch
Abstain
February 6th, 2014 10:16

For me, photo albums are a more intuitive way for organizing photos. I could think of tags as an extension. The more important question for me: If we show users how to upload that much data: How should podmins manage that?

Christian Giménez

Christian Giménez
Agree
February 6th, 2014 20:43

We can use tags so far, then we can discuss if we like album style as well.
I think tags is more flexible than albums.

Nick

Nick
Disagree
February 6th, 2014 22:56

I think we need tags and albums, or the ability to use tags in a way that very much mimics albums.

Maciek Łoziński

Maciek Łoziński February 7th, 2014 08:13

@nickdowson "or the ability to use tags in a way that very much mimics albums" - in which situation you should vote "yes"

Nick

Nick February 7th, 2014 12:16

@macieklozinski - I'd rather have albums. Even if from a technical perspective or for non beginner users they are in fact tags! Or both.

L

lebarjack
Abstain
February 7th, 2014 13:35

Marek Marecki

Marek Marecki
Agree
February 7th, 2014 20:42

RS-

Robin Stent - Outreach
Disagree
February 8th, 2014 00:32

I don't think tags make sense as a primary way of organising photos, but would be useful as an addition. Flickr uses albums and tags and I think that works well.

Akhil Krishnan S

Akhil Krishnan S
Agree
February 8th, 2014 02:56

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen
Disagree
February 8th, 2014 06:42

tags are good, but it can't be substitute for albums

PG

Paul Greindl
Agree
February 8th, 2014 14:17

Yes, I think it's fairly doable to implement now and leaves possibilities to introduce advanced album views (based on tags) later on. So for me personal I think this is the best solution!

goob

goob February 8th, 2014 14:43

Just to clarify, the UI could present photos sharing tags in a form that looks like an album. The question here is what is used to group photos into ‘albums’ (or whatever UI presentation is used) on the screen: do we use tags or do we get the user to place them into static albums which are then fixed. If we use tags to do this, there could be the option for the user to edit the tags so that the photo would then appear in different ‘albums’.

D

dremodaris
Agree
February 8th, 2014 17:33

I do think we should have a seperate type of tags for organizing photos (i.e. not #tags, but, say, §tags).

Ryuno-Ki

Ryuno-Ki February 14th, 2014 19:19

I know, the proposal is finished, but …

what does this Facebook album UI looks like?

However, I miss a link /photos (or similar) to see all photos, I've ever posted. The organising is secondary to me.

goob

goob February 14th, 2014 19:27

However, I miss a link /photos (or similar) to see all photos, I’ve ever posted.

Click on 'View all' by the photos in the sidebar of your profile page to see a list of all photos you've uploaded.

Ryuno-Ki

Ryuno-Ki February 14th, 2014 19:37

Ah, nice. Wasn't aware of that! Thanks, @goob!

goob

goob February 14th, 2014 19:58

Glad to help. The photo stream is very basic and needs a lot of work.

Ryuno-Ki

Ryuno-Ki February 17th, 2014 16:06

I see. Repeated images … Hm, have to dig in further added to todo

goob

goob February 17th, 2014 16:29

There's a bug which was introduced by 0.3.0.0 that makes the photo stream 'endless' and repeats photos. Will be fixed asap.

Christian Giménez

Christian Giménez February 26th, 2014 17:37

One UI could be, for example, a list of photos filtered with the tag #family from my profile.

I imagine something like this:
When I look in my profile, I click on "View All" to see the photo stream, then at the side or up appears a list of used tags on my photos so you can filter all that stream. Or, instead a list of tags, a simple textbox where you can type the tag.

Can be posible something like that? is that difficult to implement?

D

dremodaris February 10th, 2015 23:12

Is there any news on this topic? I do think this is a key feature if we want Diaspora* to appeal even to people who don't really mind about privacy.

L

Lemon February 11th, 2015 14:20

Uploading photos is one of key features of every social network. When I upload photos on Facebook, it's usually either one photo, or 20+ photos album. Latter is still not possible on Diaspora.

Jason Robinson

Jason Robinson February 11th, 2015 21:33

..all we need is someone to jump in and code this thing :) Who is up for it?

Maybe donate something towards the feature on BountySource? That might get someone to jump on it earlier.

L

Lemon started a proposal February 12th, 2015 21:11

Add album support Closed 10:04pm - Thursday 19 Feb 2015

Add support to create albums, similar to Facebook.

Results
Agree - 4
Abstain - 0
Disagree - 6
Block - 2
12 people have voted (0%)
L

Lemon
Agree
February 12th, 2015 21:12

Steffen van Bergerem

Steffen van Bergerem February 12th, 2015 21:36

Hooray, yet another 'I can haz?' proposal. We decided before that we would like to use tags to organize photos. All we need is someone who implements it.

Now you created a new proposal which says

Add support to create albums, similar to Facebook.

What does “similar to Facebook“ mean? AFAIK Facebook doesn't use hashtags to organize photos. How should they be organized instead? Should this proposal overrule the decision we made about a year ago? How do we federate the organization of photos “similar to Facebook“?

dianeep

dianeep
Agree
February 12th, 2015 21:37

Album support: absolutey. Just like FB: please no. There are many flaws in the FB photo gallery function, such as a lack of auto-sorting bassed on different criteria, an easy way to edit and maintain lots of photos, etc.

D

dremodaris
Block
February 12th, 2015 21:48

Outcome of the previous proposal: "We will use tags as the basis for organising uploaded photos."

L

Lemon February 12th, 2015 22:16

Oh please, albums are much better.

D

dremodaris
Disagree
February 12th, 2015 22:26

Outcome of the previous proposal: "We will use tags as the basis for organising uploaded photos."

D

dremodaris February 12th, 2015 22:27

I'm not sure what the policy is on repolling about settled issues, so I weakened to disagree.

goob

goob February 12th, 2015 23:48

This vote is irrelevant because we've already voted on and decided a way to organise photos - with tags. Vote all you want, but it won't make any difference.

goob

goob February 12th, 2015 23:50

I just wish everyone would read the guidelines on using Loomio before starting discussions/proposals... they are linked on the home page of this group, so it's not easy to miss them.

Augier

Augier February 13th, 2015 00:22

Hooray, yet another ‘I can haz?’

There's never enough ! :D

Jonne Haß

Jonne Haß
Disagree
February 13th, 2015 00:40

Creator clearly ignored previous discussion. Question is not whether, but how.

Rasmus Fuhse

Rasmus Fuhse February 13th, 2015 07:37

Are you going to implement this, Lemon? No? Than please don't start proposals. Especially not for topics that already have found a decision. If you're not going to implement this feature, maybe you want to create some mockups and present them here. As I see you prefer albums and the community prefers tags for photo-organizing. Maybe these concepts can be brought together and look just like albums, but be technically tags instead. What do you mean?

Rasmus Fuhse

Rasmus Fuhse
Block
February 13th, 2015 07:39

Define what "like facebook" means, how your proposal relates to the older proposal for the same topic that was in fact more specific.

Jason Robinson

Jason Robinson
Block
February 13th, 2015 08:18

Proposal should build on previous proposal or at least be more specific on the implementation.

G

Globulle February 13th, 2015 08:50

First I agree that the current poll is not relevant enough and need to be refined.

But speaking of governance, the present debate raise some questions. The decision was taken one year ago, but the feature has not been implemented since. That means that the code remains basically unchanged concerning photo management, isn't it? It seems to me that it may be useful to make a new poll in order to verify the opinion has not changed. Diaspora*, as every community, is a dynamic system. Especially, I guess a bigger part of its users come from Facebook, and even more are expected to come: don't we have to take this into account? The point is not to do the same thing as Zuckerberg did but to take advantage of positive external experiences (and improve them). A new poll does not seems absurd to me:

  • In case of the same answer, we would confirm that the decision which has been taken is still relevant, and should definitely be implemented,
  • In case of a different one, it would give the opportunity to correct the direction before any implementation, and so better fit users expectancies at a minimal cost.
L

Lemon February 13th, 2015 10:24

@rasmusfuhse: What I meant by "like Facebook" was that it should be familiar to user who's coming to Diaspora from networks like Facebook or G+. Users expect to be able to upload more photos and put them in album. Other people expect to easily find albums on users profile. Tags don't allow spaces and tagging albums like #MyTripToSpainIn2015Polaroids looks messy.

Rasmus Fuhse

Rasmus Fuhse February 13th, 2015 11:02

Actually you wouldn't tag albums, you'd tag pictures directly. You could tag them as #spain #2015 #polaroids, but the #2015 tag is useless, if we can use the metadata of the photos to collect all photos you took in 2015. So the tags #spain and #polaroids would remain.

I'm all fine to align our design on the typical facebook user-experience. That is perfect. But the former proposal says "tags not albums".

I started a wiki-page for creating a concept for this issue. I hope that this concept will make it easier for developers to know what they could or should implement, when they try to implement this issue. I guess, we can also break this issue down to a few issues that might be more easily be implemented than the whole thing.

https://wiki.diasporafoundation.org/Organising_Photos

goob

goob February 13th, 2015 12:03

The decision was taken one year ago, but the feature has not been implemented since.

That is purely and simply down to a lack of people developing features for Diaspora. Those few who are developing are busy working on more fundamental things. It is not because there's a lack of certainty about implementing this feature as agreed in the previous vote.

G

Globulle February 13th, 2015 12:27

@goob : I agree with you. My point is: there was no lack of certainty one year ago. But now the community has evolved, and it may be useful to question this again, to keep being in phase with users needs.

goob

goob February 13th, 2015 12:33

I think before 'asking the question again', one would need clear evidence that the previous decision is no longer applicable/appropriate for the project, or clear evidence that there is overwhelming support for a different decision. Otherwise we're just pissing in the wind here in Loomio.

goob

goob February 13th, 2015 12:34

@rasmusfuhse I've edited your wiki article for English and clarity. Hope you're happy with what I've done. Please check I haven't changed your meaning unintentionally with my edits.

y.semin

y.semin
Agree
February 13th, 2015 20:18

Jason Robinson

Jason Robinson February 14th, 2015 06:44

Good stuff @rasmusfuhse !

I'm thinking, could the first step be just visual - so a UI that would just group photos into "albums" based on posts (with uploaded) photos with hashtags? This way, it's really just a way to view photos for posts so just a different type of stream.

Visibility obviously can be taken into account as you mention by looking at the aspects.

What I'm saying is, I'm not sure why we need to relate photos to hashtags, since posts already have that relation? We can always cache the streams in advance, but the data relations are already there.

Now if users want to like or comment on photos directly - things become different. I doubt that is going to come in the near future.

goob

goob
Disagree
February 14th, 2015 20:09

Unclear proposal, and in any case irrelevant as there is an existing decision on how to organise photos.

Rasmus Fuhse

Rasmus Fuhse February 14th, 2015 20:20

@jasonrobinson the difference is, when you have several postings with your photos: one posting tagged with #spain #polaroids and another posting with #italy #polaroids and another one with #spain #blackwhite images. In your approach this means three albums, which are the exact same as the postings. I thought of the tag-feature als seeing each tag as an album, so that would make one album #spain collecting all photos from posting one and three and another album #polaroids which collects all photos from #spain and #italy which are #polaroids and so on. The difference is, that one photo can be in different "albums", which are in fact only tags but look and behave like albums.

I am not saying, that your approach is better or worse, but it is right now not the outcome of the first proposal here.

Your point is not bad, that when we display a photos as a single object, maybe people want to comment or like these photos as single objects and not as the whole posting. I'm not sure, if we should put this in the wiki-concept-page right now or if this is another feature.

Rasmus Fuhse

Rasmus Fuhse February 14th, 2015 20:32

Also Goob added to the wiki page:

Enable a user to change the hashtags associated with an individual photo ''after'' it has been uploaded.

That is not an unimportant point. Especially when you think of this photo feature not as a new stream or view but as "organising photos" like this thread is named, it is important to edit the tags of the photos independently from their postings. For example I upload several photos with #spain #polaroids in my posting and later I want a single image, which displays an ocean-coast to be also tagged with ocean, because I'd love to collect all my photos of oceans, where I have been.

Rasmus Fuhse

Rasmus Fuhse February 14th, 2015 20:42

By the way, thank you Goob! Help is always welcome.