Loomio
Wed 26 Oct 2016 9:27PM

First Workplace Democracy, then Resource Based Economy

KH Kelly Howe Public Seen by 386

I'm working on a fantasy solution where even the public sector is Workplace Democracy.

It is my opinion that Wolff and the RBE Fresco/Joseph movements are on the same path of economic and social evolution.

NK

Nikhil Kulkarni Wed 26 Oct 2016 9:42PM

My opinion too. Worker co-ops is one of the practical steps to transform the economic system rather than mere talk that most movements do.

Describing the vision, educating people about it, etc are good, but "what is a practical TRANSITION path?", is the question most these movements couldn't answer. I believe worker coops is definitely a part of the answer.

KH

Kelly Howe Wed 26 Oct 2016 11:43PM

I can propose a full detailed path where this public sector Workplace Democracy occurs. For fun, seeking criticism, I did a Facebook group called CA AU Worker Merger. Maybe you will find it.

A while back I did a group called Workers Rule, proposing a method to convert large existing employers into WSDEs.

DB

David Brinovec Wed 26 Oct 2016 11:28PM

Ah The Zeitgeist Movement. Yeah, I agree there are parallels between that and Wolff's work. I actually had a very serious interest in TZM for a time. Was actually very close to joining. Never did pull the trigger though. Had the application mostly filled out. They structured it such that you really need to read their materials. You have to answer questions in a fair amount of detail in order to complete it. I stopped when I got to the bit about handing ultimate decision making authority over to an artificial intelligence...

All that aside. I like the idea of workplace democracy in the public sector. I wonder what that would look like. That doesn't sound like fantasy to me.

KH

Kelly Howe Wed 26 Oct 2016 11:40PM

It was never part of RBE to hand power or authority to a non-human but it is a common belief. The automated system is easily explained but could easily become something no one imagined yet (like a computer to a cave man).

JR

John Rhoads Thu 27 Oct 2016 1:43AM

I'm glad we havd TZM people here. I myself am one in a big way. It was PJ through his films that stitched together all the things I had already been considering since the 70's. It brought it all full circle for me and hit every point perfectly. I understand the concerns people have about TZM/Venus project. It really is a leap for sure. I do agree that d@w is a logical step toward a RBE.

MG

Matt Grantham Thu 27 Oct 2016 1:25PM

Hi Folks I really appreciate the discussion. It seems like folks are still feeling their way here though I saw the one post that we stay focused on cooperatives and not drift to far from that focus. Personally I am pretty involved in an effort to form a website that provides an outline on how a community, Napa California in my case, can engage in a local food and holistic health movement I am not devoted to those ideas and certainly am flexible in what the groups aims are, but I did want to at least put it out there. Additionally i wanted to at least mention the idea of open source information and perhaps Richard Stallman's ideas, as well as the steady state economy and Howard Daly, The gift economy and SSE seem unavoidably connected, but perhaps others have a different take. In terms of money, Thomas Greco was influential for me in terms of seeing money as something like a floating signifier rather than anything clearly tangible Look forward to trying to contribute since groups like this are very rare in my experience Thanks

JG

Joel Gingery Thu 27 Oct 2016 2:29PM

Matt, re: engagement in Napa's local food and holistic health movement, web site. I recently became aware of Ezio Manzini's work in social innovation. Local food and holistic health are two of his primary interests/examples; his work might be helpful/germaine to your interests.

NK

Nikhil Kulkarni Thu 27 Oct 2016 7:47PM

Unity in diversity.

Coming from diverse backgrounds, different viewpoints, we all have become a part of this group. Everyone has their own plans (in addition to agreeing with Worker coops). Even I have a plan :P - The TRANSITION Plan (Shameless plug).

D@W, TZM, TVM, Ubuntu Contributionism, Giftivism / gift economy, kindness movements .. all have a common goal just like different rivers ending up in the ocean. Our paths maybe different but what we are fighting against is the same.

Loomio is to make decisions and act on it. Lets discuss ideas that can be acted upon immediately instead of just explaining visions / models. Getting people to agree with your "Path / plan" is important when they are not treading any path, but we here, all agree, that our path is to transform the economic system from within by building, growing & supporting worker coops over private profit making companies. So lets act on it.

There are a lots of things we can propose and make decisions on:
- Shall we start a crowdfunding platform only for worker co-ops ?
- Lets launch an e-commerce portal that only sells worker coop products.
- Lets make a database of skills we all have first and see what we can do ?
etc.. How about some action, get some decisions rolling ... haan ?

JG

Joel Gingery Thu 27 Oct 2016 9:26PM

Perhaps if we all explicate what we are fighting against it would help if only to confirm that we are fighting against the same thing. On second thought might it be better to talk about what we are fighting for? This has several advantages: A sense of progress towards ideals gives life meaning and makes choice significant. The effort to get rid of what we don't want is reactive. The effort to obtain what we want is proactive. Proactive planning consists of designing a desirable future and finding ways of moving toward it as effectively as possible.

NK

Nikhil Kulkarni Thu 27 Oct 2016 11:17PM

Ok, I shall try first.

What is our fight against ?

  • 45.8 million enslaved worldwide. Highest in India - 18.45 million. - 2016 Global slavery index report.
  • Synthetic milk, GM foods,etc Poison on our plates
  • Rot in our medical sector: Fake surgeries, sink tests
  • 62 people own same as half world. - Oxfam report.
  • Sponsored stupid scientific researches - Watch on Last Week Tonight with John Oliver.
  • 21,000 hungry people die every day, mostly children.
  • Wars in the middle east killing & enslaving innocent people.
  • Global warming & environmental damage. The list just doesn’t end.

What is the one common thread that runs through all these pressing problems of our age? Greed for money, more & more Profits. World needs glitter in beauty products ? Use children in Jharkhand as slaves to mine Mica and make more profits. Need more profits for hospitals? - Conduct more useless tests & surgeries. Need more milk? - Make synthetic milk & mix it or give hormone injections to cows to get more profit. Need to sell a product to increase profits? - Sponsor a fake research & prove it good. Country needs resources & weapon industry needs profits? - Secretly encourage Wars.

It is no surprise that all these are happening, because we created a powerful idea/object called money. The internal reaction to the external centralized powerful object (the all powerful money) is "Greed, lust for money and hence profit making".

What are we fighting for ?

Here two answers are necessary. 1) Many people do not believe we can do away with money and its alright. Your fight is our fight too. We too, just like you all, eagerly wait for Prof.Wolff's updates & anaylsis'. And we all agree that Worker coops is a solution that keeps in check immoral ways of making profit because lot of people are involved in decision process.

2) For believers of a Moneyless world -

We are clear about the root cause and can envision a future without money, but that shouldn't keep us away from practical actionable solutions. We shouldn't just focus on the spreading vision & converting people. We have to collaborate and strengthen each others movements that have common causes.

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