Loomio
Sun 17 Dec 2017 7:16PM

Do we have the same idea of what an Open App Ecosystem is?

BH Bob Haugen Public Seen by 391

I see two or maybe three different ideas floating around:
1. Collect a bunch of existing open-source software and add a single-signon app and maybe a dashboard and some navigation. This is good and useful. Sorta what DigLife is doing (but see also #2).
2. The next stage is what DigLife adds to their collection of apps. Notably, in what I saw, a bot that does some integration of the apps into somewhat more of an ecosystem, and possibly some data-sharing among the separate apps.
3. Yet another stage is radical decentralization, which will require creating some new apps, because what is needed may not exist.
I think Holochain is an example of this, which they describe as agent-centric instead of data-centric, as is the proposal that @lynnfoster recently posted called Structuring the OAE around agents. This is also similar to the Indie Web, Solid, and SSB. In all of those visions, you own your own data and your own identity and you may interact with other agents, some of which may be individuals and some of which may be groups that you voluntarily participate in. Agents in this stage could also use different existing apps, but their main interactions would be with other agents, not with other apps.

I don't think any of those directions are bad. But they are different.

Which of those visions are you working toward? Or are you working toward something else? Or do you think I mis-stated the question?

D

Draft Mon 18 Dec 2017 3:00AM

That's such a great thread !

If I follow, the 2 is the next stage of the 1 right ?

I'm not working on anything concrete for now, I thought a lot about the 2/ (I understand it as the logic next step of the 1/) and started to create methods/strategies to make it possible.

One of them is to create an event with all the person who want to make this 2/ possible.

After making the 2/ possible (and make money to develop something like a R&D department), we could easily think about making the 3/ possible (which seems for me A LOT of work if you don't have a pre-existing OAE working (to proove the concept is good to the users).

Because, I started research for the 3/ and it it seems very complex/blury for me at the moment. It seems for me it would be experimentation (maybe I'm wrong).

So actually, how I'd like to proceed (to make it the more concrete and possible) is : 1-2-3. And how I'd like to make it : a one week work shop with contributors cominf from all over the world.

What do you think about it ? I'd like to have some feedbacks :)

BH

Bob Haugen Mon 18 Dec 2017 12:46PM

P.S. I am not sure those are all stages. #2 might follow somewhat logically from #1, but #3 might be in a different universe, and might not follow from either #1 or #2. Some of people who are working on something like #3 (e.g.. Holochain and SSB) start there, they have no previous collections of separate apps.

BH

Bob Haugen Mon 18 Dec 2017 11:21AM

I started research for the 3/ and it it seems very complex/blury for me at the moment. It seems for me it would be experimentation (maybe I'm wrong).

You're not wrong.

a one week work shop with contributors cominf from all over the world.

I don't know if it is "ripe" yet, if you know what I mean. Enough contributors who have already done enough work on it to make progress in a week. I'm thinking about #3, which is what I want to work on. Holochain is doing their own workshops, we're having some conversations about doing something in SSB, and @ivan116 is working on a personal agent app in Fair Coop but we don't know yet how much support his proposals will get there. Beyond that, I don't know anybody who is working on #3, and I think the Holochain and SSB devs want to stick to their own frameworks, not intermingle. Which is understandable, they got a lot of work to do to complete their own visions.

D

Draft Mon 18 Dec 2017 10:17PM

I don't know if it is "ripe" yet

And I think it's a good thing, the goal of the event would be to create a dynamic to make us all work together on the same thing.

Which means :
* Create the methods we'll use to work together
* Start working on it and update these methods in consequence.

So the less we have, the better it is, as people will be more keen on appropriating the project at his beginning.

I could be wrong tho, what do you think ?

D

Draft Mon 18 Dec 2017 10:21PM

And we could focalize this event on the 3/ as it's the more innovative and ethical thing I know, I like it very much !

One of the question would be : how can we transform the existant (=loomio, wekan, xwiki, ...) in this new way of building ?
* Creating interconnections ?
* Rebuild new one ?
* Create a plug in/add-on ?

Or this is a question we could ask before the event in the "co-designing" part.

D

Draft Mon 18 Dec 2017 10:35PM

Actually I don't see the event as something ponctual, but more include in a process.

  • 1st step : Co-create the event with everyone that wanna make the 3/ which means creating methods to optimise our efficiency during the event and answer questions (like the one you ask for example) we could ask to ourselves on the way we should create this open app ecosystem. This process is long (could be 1 year and a half) and inclusive, one of the objective is to make this event (it could happen in one year and a half), but it's one of the "short objectives" we could plan.
  • 2nd step : Based on everything we worked on and the method we created, the event happen. Its goal is in the first time to answer the question "how we can work together ?", when we answered this question we can actually work together.
  • 3rd step : Thanks to this event, we continue this dynamic to make this open app ecosystem real.

I tried to be as concise and clear as possible, but it misses a lot of information. What I'm gonna do is a documentation of what I have in my head, and submit it to you all. Like that you'll be easily able to contribute to it if you want :)

Don't know when I'll have the time for that tho'. Hope soon ! See you

I

ivan Mon 18 Dec 2017 3:18PM

I also think #3 is not so related to the other 2.
if an ecosystem comes up creating an OAE structured as the 2# proposal, is highly probable that it will stay in that way. I dont see the 3# as an evolution of the first 2, more like a totally different approach.
By the way, I am totally for the 3# :D

D

Draft Mon 18 Dec 2017 10:24PM

Yeah, but my point was to stay inclusive, and co-create it with the people who already build other way of making apps (if they wanna co-create with us of course).

BH

Bob Haugen Mon 18 Dec 2017 10:56PM

.> So the less we have, the better it is, as people will be more keen on appropriating the project at his beginning.

I could be wrong tho, what do you think ?

I don't want to be too negative, I could always be wrong, but I would not travel to such a meeting. I think the project has already started by more than one group, and at least some of them know and talk to each other.

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