Loomio

Founding members for the asbl ......

JVO
Jan Van Opstal Public Seen by 387

It seems that Jan Cabouter is not further candidate to form a asbl.
The Crew in Mechelen is still pro to form a asbl.
Who will be the founding members now? etc....

TF

Thierry Fenasse Wed 7 Dec 2016

Why don't they do a vzw "Crew Mechelen" if it's suits their needs?

SD

Sandrine Debatty Wed 7 Dec 2016

Le but, c'était de faire une asbl nationale, pas une asbl de crew.

TF

Thierry Fenasse Wed 7 Dec 2016

Ben clairement, le but n'est pas atteint. :sweat_smile:

KDV

Koen De Voegt Wed 7 Dec 2016

The smile of a saboteur...

Small pathetic people like you are the downfall of this organisation.

H

HgO Wed 7 Dec 2016

Sure, without @tierce we would have made so much progress... :(
Please don't take your case for a generality. You cannot make people who didn't (want to) participate in your project responsible for its failure.

V

Vincent Wed 7 Dec 2016

Oh great! Now it's our fault if it took weeks to get 4 people around a table to apply the general assembly's decision.
People are feeling demotivated because we didn't cheer loud enough? Come on, you are talking to people who have made this decision valid by providing minutes to the GA. I even had to provide the Google doc's link to Jan who had lost it.

Now, one person is missing and the project is threatened? Wasn't this non-profit supposed to bring more stability?

Get this thing done and let's move on!

PI

Patrick Installé Wed 7 Dec 2016

The downfall is the illusion of democracy. Power of voter who are not doer. The illusion is emotion without reflecsion.

JVO

Jan Van Opstal Wed 7 Dec 2016

In first instance we are talking about a national asbl. Voted positive in the last GA.

It is not clear why Jan Cabouters end his mission now, he once started, cause of lack of debreefing ...

Are all francophone and Brabant pirates against the forming of a national asbl?

Or are there also crews who see the positive advantages such a structure can provide....

Or is this the division bell ? and a split between pirates in this country on language and culture differences?

Make up your mind .... If there are candidates to form a national asbl please come foreward ?!

H

HgO Wed 7 Dec 2016

Everything isn't binary, black or white, 0 or 1. I am not totally against a national asbl, but I'm against this one. I won't explain here, but we gave our feedback about this asbl during the GA and at other moments, see this pad and this one for instance.

I don't see a correlation between language / country / culture and the creation of a national asbl. However, I can see a difference of methodology between regions. If you find polarization inside the party interesting, please have a look at this pad.

As for your call for candidates, I hope for you that this will work, but don't expect me to take part in this. I think I gave enough of my time for that project (I gave my feedback, opinion, etc. but I don't think this was quite useful).

JVO

Jan Van Opstal Thu 8 Dec 2016

In order to get things done....

There are candidates in Antwerp and Mechelen.... But what about other parts of the country....

It would be great if we have a representation covering the country more or less.

WM

Willem Marijnissen Thu 8 Dec 2016

I propose to make a group of people how are interested in the creation of national cohesion . No official profile, with open mind, In a way where energy is not wasted, with a realistic approach.How are looking for the things important for the whole country and not only local. how use the local experiences to strengthen the national awareness . Not imposing anything to anyone but asking questions that can serve that goal. In fact, some of us are already doing this. If this group (always open for everyone) shows his value to the whole country, it might become something like a vzw-asbl later. If it does not we try other ways until we have something acceptable. I should have put this in another topic,but am not a Loomio specialist.

V

Vincent Fri 9 Dec 2016

In my experience, you gain trust by providing a service, and once proven usefull, it can be officialized. Would you agree to start with the newsletter as a cohesion tool?

WM

Willem Marijnissen Fri 9 Dec 2016

I heard about that before. forgot about it. What is the present status of this project? (anyway, I agree)

V

Vincent Fri 9 Dec 2016

We have an automated newsletter for the english-speaking part of the website, it sends the recent articles and upcoming events.

We are about to send December's newsletter next thuesday and schedule the automated sending on the 2nd thuesday of each month.

We could use a team that makes a job similar to http://piratetimes.net/ but for belgian activities. Involving the navigators would be a plus.
A regular translation team would allow us to activate the french and dutch speaking newsletter aswell.

TF

Thierry Fenasse Fri 9 Dec 2016

To help translating content for the website (and maybe more, but it's a start of some sort).

What about putting names (@valeried (fr,en,nl) , @willemmarijnissen (nl, fr, en) , @hgo (etc) , @iljabaert (etc) , @santty (etc) , ...) in the description of the Website Squad?

This can provide for elders or new comers an idea about our translation capable people who would like to dedicate their time to the website content, under the Website Squad group?

The description of a group can be edited as often as required if some of those translators are not available, wishes to leave or join.

It's an idea but it is easy to set up.

WM

Willem Marijnissen Fri 9 Dec 2016

I like ideas that are easy to setup, so...:-)

JVO

Jan Van Opstal Fri 9 Dec 2016

It looks like there are still some hot items of discussion regarding the ASBL/VZW ...

As proven by the voting on the last GA and reactions on FB there is still a major interest to create a national structure in the form of a asbl. Maybe it could be a good practice to discuss these hot items further so we can find a solution to all the arguments.... It makes no sense to have structure if their are still questions or opposition. As long as there are reasonable arguments ....

The creation of a newsletter looks like a good idea but is not the topic. Please make a new one.... en transfer or delete this from this thread? For the ease of reading?

I would like to propose to make a wiki ? where we can assemble the arguments contra for further discussion ?

TF

Thierry Fenasse Fri 9 Dec 2016

Some links about vzw/asbl history in the Belgian Pirate Party on this vzw pad.

There is no need to create a newsletter, but improve to one(s) we have and which is based on the content of the pirateparty.be website.

There is already a wiki page Asbl-vzw creation.

J

Josse Fri 9 Dec 2016

To my knowledge and the knowledge of its statutes, vzw/asbl is about the accounting of the ppbe account (+ it contracts, ...) and keeping track of a list with who can do what or is interested in what and bring those together. (the website form "Get Involved" initially) It can do other stuff too, if it wants to. No decision has been made on how the account should be regulated yet: there is the proposal of cobudget, ... So, this vzw/asbl is 1/ not urgent 2/ can be set up with minimum effort. Democracy squad is higher priority to me.