Loomio
Wed 9 May 2018 8:06PM

Challenge: Footpaths

R RobJN Public Seen by 49

Hi all. There has recently been a crowd sourcing project to transcribe and georeference all written elements on historic maps (see gb1900.org). OSM UK have obtained a copy of all "F.P" (footpath) or similar locations.

I thought a really fun test would be to see if we can identify any possible missing footpaths by using the data.

We would need to filter the data down to just those points that do not have a OSM mapped highway within X meters. These are then candidates to investigate further.

The point data incudes some 300k points (based on locations of the first letter in "F.P") so it's a big task but not too difficult for a person with the right know how.

We'd love to have some help on this. If it is a project that also excites you, please let me know.

JN

Jez Nicholson Thu 10 May 2018 8:06AM

Is there a statement anywhere re copyright status of the data? I see the NLS copyright for map images (CC-NonCommercial-ish) but nothing specific to gb1900 data. Assuming that they aren't claiming a 'derivative work' of their copyright claim to the scanned image of an out-of-copyright (?) map?

R

RobJN Thu 10 May 2018 8:30AM

There are two journal papers about it and these state that the final gb1900 data will be open data.

I got the footpath data direct from Chris at the NLS (one off the main persons involved) with his explicit knowledge of the intended use.

GMD

Gregory Marler (former Director) Fri 11 May 2018 12:05PM

Jez makes a good point though. Open Data is a spectrum (e.g. NC, Attribution, requirements can still be called "open").

I'm not sure how helpful doing an "F.P." match would be. There are plenty of paths that aren't labelled in that way, and of course a lot has changed in 118 years. You could try matching on every/any feature, but then you might as well just use the old maps as a base layer in an editor anyway. I suppose we could use this for specific features combined with quarterly features, churches strike me as something more likely to remain (but potentially in need of checking they're still open and they're name/denomination).

R

RobJN Sat 9 Jun 2018 2:07PM

New website from Nick Whitelegg:

Following on from the recent discussions regarding rights of way and the licensing of council data, I would like to announce that the initial - and very much prototype - version of 'MapThePaths' is now available.
http://www.mapthepaths.org.uk/

See: https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-gb/2018-June/021503.html

R

RobJN Sat 9 Jun 2018 2:09PM

And updates from Chris at National Library of Scotland /
GB1900 project.

  1. I was curious myself to see how the distribution of footpaths looked a century ago based on the GB1900 abbreviations so I mapped the data I sent you at http://geo.nls.uk/maps/gb1900footpath/

  2. On 9 July in London there will be an official launch event of the
    cleaned and edited GB1900 dataset:
    https://www.eventbrite.com/e/gb1900-historical-gazetteer-a-celebration-and-launch-tickets-46224059406
    You or your colleagues would be welcome to attend, but no worries if you can’t, and I’ll keep you posted with the revised/cleaned dataset next month. It would be good to keep possible OSM projects involving this dataset in mind for the future.

If anyone is in London and would like to attend this (or can travel in to
attend this) please let me know.

TS

Tony Shield Sun 17 Jun 2018 9:35AM

I really do think that footpaths need to be a recurring theme especially as the 2026 deadline approaches. The mapthepaths website is great - clearly showed me some paths which I had walked were not in OSM as FP's - they are now.
As a newby I like the Footpath presets in JOSM - easy to use and adds the data really well. An Android app which does similar will be great..
Looking at the data stored in the map and the data supplied by Lancashire CC and the preferred style of nomenclature of the tags if think that there is a gap in the data which needs to be corrected.
My analysis is that the preferred tag is prow_ref = 'Chorley FP 1' which is great - it is used in much official documentation including Lancs CC. However the data provided by Lancs CC is not in that format - see attachment. It contains District and Parish by name, and District and Parish by number, Lancs CC is the data provider and the owner of the Definitive Map and Statement. I think OSM data needs to store that information. I think that is the only way that uniqueness of footpath can be assured - the key is composite of Definitive Owner, District, Parish, Path Type, Path Number.
I have searched Chorley - it will be a recurring examplar - and there are 5 in OSM at a level where they could have footpaths - other place names are much more common.
This key can be populated by a person or machine providing there is agreement on the dataset.
I hope I have not covered old ground but unless a similar schema is implemented then the map will not have as much data as is needed.

NW

Nick Whitelegg Fri 22 Jun 2018 3:11PM

Glad you like the mapthepaths site! As it happens I am also working on an Android app version which will offer the same functionality as the website including (both website and app) the ability to add OSM tags via easy-to-use high level types - i.e. the user will just have to specify ROW class ("public footpath" etc) and physical path type (dirt path, dirt track, gravel track etc) and the necessary OSM tags will be auto-generated.

Also in the app I am aiming to include the ability to auto-generate OSM ways from GPX tracks (via track simplification) to further ease the barrier to entry to OSM for walkers, and hopefully, the ability to auto-connect ways surveyed in this manner to existing OSM highways in the area. Users would of course be required to have a personal OSM account.

TS

Tony Shield Sun 17 Jun 2018 9:38AM

FP Signs - OSM does not appear to have a tag for a FP sign - can we have one? The UK Access provisions page and the countryside are littered with them - and very useful they are too.

EL

Ed Loach Mon 18 Jun 2018 8:36AM

TS

Tony Shield Mon 18 Jun 2018 8:56AM

Ed, thanks that's a great help. I've seen many of those guide_type=destination over the years particularly in cities, knowing that guidepost exists helps.
Do you think something more specific than guidepost=hiking is relevant to the UK Public Footpath?

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