2014 General Election

If there is such a thing as climbing numbers in membership as @robueberfeldt suggests, then I would like to know about that phenomenon as well.
But what counts for the question at hand, I would think, is the state of the active membership, and that is about a dozen and more like declining then inclining. Not good enough for running a party.

@robueberfeldt I agree, we need to build awareness of the Pirate Party, which is why I support running electorate candidates. I also agree with @hubatmcjuhes though, we don’t have the numbers to run a decent party vote campaign, and what resources we do have would be better spent on well organised electorate campaigns.

The IP launch is a reason not to try to launch the Pirates this election. If we had run a party list in 2011, or if we had a solid team of people working on preparations for a party vote campaign over the last two years, things would be different. We would already be well established, and we could probably have pulled a significant chunk of the activists and members who have joined the IP into the Pirates.

The hard facts are, as @hubatmcjuhes says, we are a party of about a dozen activists, with around 200 members, and no money. The IP has thousands of members, and a sizeable war chest. If we try to compete with them under these conditions, we will be a laughing stock. It’s like the Cannabis Party trying to compete with the Greens for all these elections. We’d be Scrappy Doo!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XG8dgN6x2EA

With the IP looking like they are going with Mana....I think that a lot of people will be turned off by this that may have voted for them.

First off, this whole discussion is moot if we can't get members to register.

That said, if we by some miracle do get 500 registered members and can register the party then by all means I think we should run a party list. I don't buy the argument that we'll split the vote for the Internet party, in my opinion that's a good thing for us, not a bad thing, if we get registered and put in a list then it may open the door to negotiations with the IP as I do think their core values are the same as ours and splitting the vote isn't something they would want to do either.

Please, @davidpeterson, can you explain how we could possibly turn things around in time?

@peterajamian While I understand that the IP is not exactly identical with Kim Schmitz, and this opens the grounds for potential congruency in places, I still waiting for anything emerging from them that meets the high standards of our principles.
I also have to admit that the current state of PPNZ is probably equally far from satisfying those standards, but I do believe (and pray) this is only temporarily.

@hubatmcjuhes I agree. What I'm saying I guess is that we are similar enough to the IP to be splitting their vote, but not close enough to want to run off to them and abandon our own attempts at running a list. As we stand now we are a joke to them and they really wont' pay attention to us for anything so we have no chance of shapign that party that is taking over and being much more successful at running what is mostly our own positions. If we were to get our 500 then we become a threat to the IP due to the possibility of splitting th evote, no matter how small and that means that we can get them to the bargaining table to help shape that party to become something better and maybe even something we can support.

If our party numbers are around 200 then I don't see much hope of us becoming registered. If we can register then I would give consideration to running a list.

Dear @peter and @rob, I really wholeheartedly disagree with you. Even if we had 5000 formal members right now we should NOT consider running for election as long as we are still only 17 registered at loomio with a maximum of 8 ever expressing their thoughts.

@peterajamian

we are similar enough to the IP to be splitting their vote, but not close enough to want to run off to them and abandon our own attempts at running a list.

This is a strawman. Nobody has argued that the Pirates should dissolve and merge into the IP (although if individual members/ activists decide to get behind them for this election, that's their call). What has been argued is:
a) you only get one shot at running a party list for the first time. Whether or not this is done right can determine whether a party has a future, or will disappear without a trace after their first outing.
b) the Pirates are not in a strong position in terms of funds or active support to run a good party vote campaign anyway, and we can't even count on the protest vote we might have got even with no effort, because most of it will go to the IP, or to Act (which is where most of our previous and potentials activists and organisers have gone).
c) rather than squandering this one-off opportunity, in a vain attempt to be a "threat" to the IP, we are better to save it for 2017
d) energy and cash which would be spread super-thin across the country in a party vote campaign could instead be focused on a dozen or so electorate candidates, who can represent the party well, and build our active membership through actually doing something in-person

I am interested in running as a Pirate candidate here in Dunedin North, but not if the party makes what I see as a strategically suicidal decision to run a party list, for the reasons given above. Is anyone else in this discussion considering a candidacy? If so, how do you feel about this?
@kirktwist @brucekingsbury @terryjones @andrewreitemeyer others?