Loomio
November 12th, 2015 19:23

Groups and their principles

Bob Haugen
Bob Haugen Public Seen by 357

I'll try to list some groups that I think intersect enough that they should think about whether they should consciously become a network of networks.

I'll do this in some comments because I don't have all the required info yet, and in hopes that others will help, if they think this thread is useful.

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 12th, 2015 19:27

The first group is the Open App Ecosystem, which this discussion space spun out of.
Here are some of their ideas and principles:
https://github.com/open-app/core

The Open App Ecosystem originated in Enspiral, which is yet another group. I think Enspiral needs to be considered as another group because the Open App Ecosystem idea took off in the minds of many more people and groups than Enspiral. (Thanks, Enspiral!)

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 12th, 2015 19:33

Another group is the Alliance for Interoperability of Collaborative Technologies, AKA Collaborative Technology Alliance. Their principles and ideas are contained in the documents linked to their names.

According to the second document, their members include "Hylo, Enspiral, Loomio, CoBudget, Chalkle, Robin Hood Cooperative, Identity.com, Ethereum, Citizen Code, Metamaps.cc, Bitmind.co, KiwiConnect, Lifehack, Planetwork, Impact Hub, Refugio Resource, Pyxis, triaxiom9, CivicMakers...in spirit...Backfeed, CredEx, Village Lab, Ceptr, and Swarm."

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 12th, 2015 19:56

^ I believe that Collaborative Technology Alliance is the beginning of a fusion of Alliance for Interoperability of Collaborative Technologies and Collaborative Software Consortium. Edward West and Ishan Shapiro are among the people who can speak most directly on this.

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 12th, 2015 20:03

Yet another group met in the recent Impact Economy Summit, and which is continuing to meet. Meetings will be announced at Cooperative Infrastructure. Here's a metamap from that meeting.

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 12th, 2015 20:06

And then there's the ValueFlows project, composed of these people.

Short form principles on the first link above. Long form linked from the short form.

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 12th, 2015 20:10

But not to forget TransforMap, and their principles and more principles.

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 12th, 2015 20:11

@lynnfoster - can you find some links for the PLP gang? Or other Ouishare gangs?

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 12th, 2015 20:11

And who did I miss?

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 12th, 2015 20:19

Thanks so much for trying to pull so many people and ideas together @bobhaugen .

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 12th, 2015 20:19

You haven't mentioned Sensorica yet unless I'm having an episode of acute blindness, which does happen at times!

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 12th, 2015 20:23

@gregorycassel - Sensorica is part of the Impact Economy group, altho @tiberiusbrastavice may want to say more. I know they are working with some new software connections.

(And they were one of the inspirations and sources for ValueFlows.)

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 12th, 2015 20:29

And then ovn.space, which Sensorica is also part of.

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 12th, 2015 20:30

And P2PValue, which Sensorica is also part of.

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 12th, 2015 20:32

We should have a contest for who belongs to the most groups. Can anybody top Sensorica?

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 12th, 2015 20:33

I'm not sure this is part of the same mindshare, but some of the participants are: Platform Cooperatives.

Actually existing platform coops.

Lynn Foster

Lynn Foster November 12th, 2015 20:45

can you find some links for the PLP gang? Or other Ouishare gangs?

https://github.com/hackers4peace/plp-docs
http://transformap.co/
http://www.pixelhumain.com/ (in French)

And there is WeZer (https://github.com/Valeureux/) and other Odoo (OpenERP) efforts.

But I don't know how to easily find sets of principles, which is your topic.....

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 12th, 2015 20:47

@lynnfoster - it's ok re principles. I just thought it might be fun some time to compare and contrast sets of principles.

Caroline Smalley

Caroline Smalley November 13th, 2015 17:00

Great list @bobhaugen ! Thanks for sharing. Just to clarify, Impact Economy is the name The Citizens Media (the platform) settled on for the summit and subsequent movement.

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 13th, 2015 17:05

@carolinesmalley - is that the correct link I posted above for people to get connected?
http://thecitizensmedia.com/pub/group/cooperative-infrastructure?id=133

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 13th, 2015 23:15

Lynn Foster

Lynn Foster November 13th, 2015 23:31

@gregorycassel thanks for the Edward West post link! Great to see this attitude of collaborative alliance to create something bigger than the parts, and emphasis on getting away from the individual branding of projects and products.

A couple discussion points:

  1. I'm not sure the UI/UX is the key, although I agree it is important. The data has to mesh together too to actually create inter-operability and the ability to create a bigger system out of small open apps plugged together. Duplicating data is no fun.

  2. The list of applications is great, but there isn't much for actual exchanges, and nothing for creation of value, although there was more of a hint of that in an earlier version. If we're going to be able to manage our transition to the next economy with some seeds in place, those seem central to me.

I'd be interested in others' thoughts....

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 13th, 2015 23:36

The data has to mesh together too to actually create inter-operability and the ability to create a bigger system out of small open apps plugged together.

I agree, and I think this has been a great focal point for some people in the history of Open Apps Ecosystem and Value Flows.

I suggest that UX is probably the key consideration for any end-user application; but perhaps inter-operability should ultimately be considered part of the UX? (The UX not the UI.)

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 13th, 2015 23:38

Consider also community experience.

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 13th, 2015 23:41

The list of applications is great, but there isn’t much for actual exchanges, and nothing for creation of value, although there was more of a hint of that in an earlier version. If we’re going to be able to manage our transition to the next economy with some seeds in place, those seem central to me.

I agree on this too, although I would imagine that even a lot of techies and coders are reluctant to look closely at value accounting systems/formulae for interactions, contributions and feedback which have traditionally been handled organically-- which seems good-- but also according to vast tangles of implicit biases and privileges, which isn't so good.

Perhaps value accounting systems are our wickedest overall problem, but I think it's a key challenge to face.

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 13th, 2015 23:46

Re interop vs UX: think about the stories of the mutual credit networks. Some people belong to more than one network. Often people want to trade between networks. The Mutual Aid Networks are using two different apps, and members will have presences in both and intertrade between both. In Montreal, several organizations (with different internal systems) will move into the same lab and share resources. Interesting UX problems...

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 14th, 2015 05:28

At the risk of information overload, I just ran into [Backfeed[(http://backfeed.cc/) via Ouishare's very new blockchain experiment . "Backfeed is building a canonical protocol and platform (akin to the HTTP protocol and the web browser) to enable blockchain-based decentralized collaboration, as easily as one would deploy a website today."

I myself am information-overloaded, diffused and struggling to constructively connect dots. ;)

Lynn Foster

Lynn Foster November 14th, 2015 13:32

perhaps inter-operability should ultimately be considered part of the UX?

@gregorycassel That's a good way to think of it, especially if you are starting with UX/UI as your focus. But it is a different animal from the technical side, requires a different set of efforts. But I'm happy as long as we get there.... :)

@bobhaugen good examples of this phenomenon.

RB

Ria Baeck November 16th, 2015 19:33

What kind of groups are you actually looking for? only 'techy' groups it looks like...

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 16th, 2015 19:40

@riabaeck - yeah, sorry about that. This conversation spun out of the Open Apps Ecosystem group, and started out to be a discussion about collaboration between people working on overlapping software projects.

But what kinds of groups did you have in mind? Maybe this discussion is too narrowly focused.

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 16th, 2015 19:43

@riabaeck I personally am primarily concerned with social organizational tools and techniques-- including written protocols, agreements, policies and procedures etc-- and secondarily (but quite critically, these days) with software.

RB

Ria Baeck November 16th, 2015 20:42

@bobhaugen @gregorycassel I come from other kind of groups, more in the social realm, not real organisations; like global self-organising networks with no written protocols, no policies, no procedures, no bosses, no official organisation; but with a strong culture of self-organisation and a lot of practices to support that self-organisation. No software knowlegde!
I find 'principles' different than 'protocols, agreements and procedures'... the first can help you in a complex and dynamic system, the latter are more for when you hold the idea that there is actually a right and wrong or when there actually is - which is not frequent in human systems...

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 16th, 2015 21:28

I'll have to catch up more later Ria, but I believe your concerns relate quite closely to the difference I perceive between networks of shared interests and collaborative projects. I don't mean to imply that all networks or projects require formal protocols, policies and/or procedures. I'm practically an anarchist, so I believe in a radical minimalization of formal structure; at the same time, I believe strongly in this .

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 16th, 2015 21:58

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 16th, 2015 22:01

@riabaeck we like a human-level protocol called conversations for action. It does not need to be written down, but it can be formalized as a computer system protocol. It is a pure P2P protocol for coming to agreement. I don't think it implies right or wrong. I do think that considerate people use it naturally all the time.
https://www.loomio.org/d/69tuWRqB/conversation-for-action

RB

Ria Baeck November 17th, 2015 08:25

@bobhaugen @gregorycassel As I read the links you provide I understand more now where you are coming from; and get the difference between 'networks' and 'projects' and more... Thanks!
and I am still looking if I can provide anything meaningful here...

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 17th, 2015 17:19

I'm sure you can provide meaningful perspective, knowledge and wisdom here @riabaeck . I don't know if it will be worth your time, but it's definitely possible.

I believe that Lynn Foster, @bobhaugen and others are working on deeply important issues for communications and collaboration software. However, there's a profound gulf between 'tech-y" people and much of the activist world, which requires ongoing dialogue.

Some of us focus on re-imagining and redefining the language and metrics of economics relationships. I, for one, couldn't ask for everyone to focus on that.

The description for this group refers to alternative governance and open communication. Based on your comments here, I'm not sure if you deal much with governance matters, but you surely know a great deal about communications. Maybe you focus more on oral communication (in person meetings,teleconference etc) or maybe you focus more on writing and media.

Perhaps your experience with self-organizing networks, or movements, also does relate significantly to economics issues. That would be helpful to know.

I appreciate your interest, and please do let us know if you find a way to meaningfully relate here. Or to introduce yourself and your current priorities in general, or whatever you prefer.

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 17th, 2015 18:04

@riabaeck I'll second what @gregorycassel wrote. Lynn and I have been active participants in many movements, which gives us motivation for working on tools for economic transformation.

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 19th, 2015 03:47

Adding a group here: Noomap looks quite relevant, and Andrea Harding has been quite active in the Hylo thread A workspace on hackpad for the CTA, and suggestions for moving forward .

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 24th, 2015 20:22

Another one new to me; David Hersey commented in the Hylo CTA group: http://leapforward.us/what-we-do/

At first look, it seems like a holistic and unitary vision, somewhat akin to Noomap. (As opposed to a vision of autonomously developed modules.)

They've done some intriguing mapping @bobhaugen :
http://ic.leapforward.us/
http://ic.leapforward.us/themes/bubbles

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen November 24th, 2015 22:38

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 25th, 2015 22:52

https://gratipay.com/about/ --very interesting

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel November 27th, 2015 21:04

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel December 11th, 2015 00:11

This thread is still an informal and incomplete link dump for me! http://www.ethosvo.org/

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen December 11th, 2015 00:17

Hey @gregorycassel - who knew this thread was still alive? We've participated in some email conversations with ethos. If you're interested, I'll see if I can find something public.

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel December 16th, 2015 20:09

A general survey and categorical analysis of collaborative networks -- https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Xo-ehJatzmxMek6gPG0h-d7yRSuiO6_flViTQNMAku0/edit#gid=0

Lynn Foster

Lynn Foster December 16th, 2015 20:25

@gregorycassel nice list....

Ping @jonrichter fyi

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel January 12th, 2016 06:51

Another holistic ecosystemic approach: http://epiccollaboration.com/about

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen January 12th, 2016 12:12

@gregorycassel - interesting, These things are popping up all over the place. Gee, maybe they could collaborate....?

Josef Davies-Coates

Josef Davies-Coates February 4th, 2016 22:51

This is the best link-dump thread I've read in a long time. Fantastic work @bobhaugen @gregorycassel :)

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen February 4th, 2016 22:57

I need that thanks button, @josefdaviescoates - but thanks. And didn't you write some principles for an organization once upon a time? How did we miss it?

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel February 4th, 2016 23:38

@josefdaviescoates thanks; that's sincerely flattering coming from you. :) You may also want to check out the main link dump at Value Flows if you haven't already.

Josef Davies-Coates

Josef Davies-Coates February 5th, 2016 00:05

BTW @bobhaugen (and everyone I guess) here's a collection of principles I put together back in 2004:
http://web.archive.org/web/20040301094156/http://wiki.uniteddiversity.com/shared_principles

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen February 5th, 2016 00:20

@josefdaviescoates - that's the one! That is totally awesome! Thanks for the reminder, and for people who have never seen it, take heed!

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel February 5th, 2016 00:47

Wow, I'll have to look closer later, but those seven co operative principles are brilliantly rational and lucid-- thanks so much for sharing @josefdaviescoates !

I personally think those principles are quite harmonious with my admittedly ambitious interest in agreement-based organization. Josef, if you have time to look, I'd be really keen for your perspective on that current draft document.

Josef Davies-Coates

Josef Davies-Coates February 5th, 2016 00:50

If anyone values that list of principles, may I suggest a donation to Internet Archive? :) https://archive.org/donate/ they've saved me so many times :)

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel February 19th, 2016 01:09

two more:

Solid Specification https://github.com/solid/solid-spec
Stop Reset Go http://stopresetgo.org/

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel March 4th, 2016 23:30

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel March 7th, 2016 20:26

More of the many groups which are trying to address social and economic change holistically:

http://www.neweconomynyc.org/about-us/
http://democracycollaborative.org/

Democracy Collaborative is hosting The Next System Project March 10-12 in NYC... it'd be good for some of us to get connected with some of them.

Lynn Foster

Lynn Foster March 8th, 2016 00:12

@gregorycassel Hey thanks for keeping up this thread!

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel March 10th, 2016 21:29

Courtesy of Francesca Pick : http://realeconomylab.org/#network

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel March 26th, 2016 18:28

This pattern language PLAST group seems quite trans-network or "meta" in its intentions:

https://github.com/PLAST-Community/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/125513674232534/permalink/836066386510589/

Crowdpowers has a very holistic perspective as well, and seems particularly focused on creative dialogue, including a collaborative book project: https://www.crowdpowers.com/

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen March 26th, 2016 21:41

Helene Finidori of PLAST is awesome! You and she should talk some time, Greg.

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel March 26th, 2016 23:32

Definitely planning to... gonna learn more about PLAST.

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel April 5th, 2016 21:01

Here's another effort to create a decentralized co-sensing and media sharing network. Looks rather similar to Backfeed... they know each other, so hopefully they're comparing notes: http://www.synereo.com/learn-more/

Greg Cassel

Greg Cassel April 16th, 2016 01:05

A most interesting effort IMO to foster peer production creative networks: http://www.comakery.com/ -- CEO Noah Thorp who has contributed lots to Collaborative Technology Alliance's discussions of potential open source standards.

I believe this project is fairly new (in its public sense) and the website is sparse.

John Gieryn

John Gieryn April 20th, 2016 13:57

I really appreciate the Allied Media Projects' definition of Media-Based Organizing, as well as the digital justice principals of the affiliated project DDJC.

John Gieryn

John Gieryn May 6th, 2016 14:40

vaguely connected with Allied Media Projects (or more directly than I know), here are a couple groups that I think have pretty evident principles just in their landing pages:

Design Action Collective - Design for change: http://designaction.org
Electric Embers Co-op - Renewable powered, secure web-hosting: http://electricembers.coop/
Media Alliance (this one is less aligned {perhaps}, but part of the supply chain ;) - Media rights advocacy, formerly very involved w/ distributing, replicating, scaling indiemedia.net model: http://www.media-alliance.org/