Loomio
Fri 2 Jun 2017 3:43AM

Brainstorms - temporary subgroups for realtime chat

DS Danyl Strype Public Seen by 53

We've been discussing ways to add realtime dialogue to Loomio in the thread about chat. Maybe the simplest way to address this need using existing Loomio code would be a feature that allows users to spin up a temporary subgroup called a Brainstorm (working name, could be called anything)? A Brainstorm could be launched from within a particular thread, and allow verbose brainstorming on the topic of that thread without flooding the thread.

Unlike a normal subgroup, a Brainstorm (temporary subgroup) would have only one thread, and would be deleted when the last user in it logged off (or went idle for more than x minutes?). When the Brainstorm subgroup is deleted, the thread contents could be converted to a text file, and added as an attachment to the thread from which it was launched (with a filename like [group name - thread - date.txt]. It could be added as an attachment to the thread description, or as a notification on the thread with the .txt attached:
"[user1], [user2], and [user 3] had a Brainstorm on [date], from [start time] to [end time]. Here's what they talked about"

DU

Deleted account Fri 2 Jun 2017 4:46AM

The idea sounds very appealing

C

Connor Fri 2 Jun 2017 8:34AM

Why not simply make the usual discussion board update instantly, as if it were chat?

DS

Danyl Strype Fri 2 Jun 2017 11:16AM

@adroit :
AFAIK posts to threads do update instantly. This doesn't serve the need though, which is for a feature allowing "verbose brainstorming on the topic of that thread without flooding the thread". Verbose back-and-forth on a thread between 2 or more group members online at the same time can tend to produce more heat than light and the flood of news comments, makes it harder for other group members to catch up with the thread when they get online.

If I'm wrong and threads don't already handle instant push updates, your suggestions sounds like it asks for major architecture changes (corrections on this assumption welcome). This feature proposal is my attempt to go back to first principles and rethink the need that lead some of us to ask for realtime "chat". I tried to think of something that can be implemented as an interface tweak, re-using existing Loomio code as much as possible.
EDIT: clarity

C

Connor Fri 2 Jun 2017 10:42PM

"verbose brainstorming on the topic of that thread without flooding the thread"
wouldn't that be more simply solved via another thread? I think the solution here is to allow separate threads for post replies (like Facebook now has) so only those involved get notified.

"Verbose back-and-forth on a thread between 2 or more group members online at the same time can tend to produce more heat than light and the flood of news comments, makes it harder for other group members to catch up with the thread when they get online."
Wouldn't that be the case either way? (catch up on the chat log vs. forum thread)

DS

Danyl Strype Sat 3 Jun 2017 10:12AM

I think the solution here is to allow separate threads for post replies (like Facebook now has) so only those involved get notified.

It's not about notifications, it's about thread themselves. Imagine you came back to look at this thread tomorrow, and James Wilson and I had been online at the same time, talking back and forth on this thread for a few hours. This could generate hundreds of new comments, none of them very carefully thought out. Would you a) try to read them all, b) just ignore them and try to get back in the discussion without understanding anything insightful buried in the flood, or c) feel overwhelmed and disengage, leaving us to it?

The equivalent in a face-to-face meeting would be allowing two people to talk back-and-forth at length, diving more and more into details more relevant to them than to the group as a whole. When that starts to happen in a meeting, a good facilitator will ask the two to carry on their details discussion between meetings, and bring a summary of their discussions back to the group. The Brainstorms feature is envisioned as a way to do that on Loomio.

Wouldn't that be the case either way? (catch up on the chat log vs. forum thread)

Only for obsessives (like me) ;) The same notification in which the .txt log was attached could also be used to give an outcome statement (like the outcome statement for a proposal), summarizing any key points that came out of the Brainstorm and feeding them back into the discussion.

DS

Danyl Strype Sat 3 Jun 2017 6:42PM

...In fact, the Brainstorm could be a poll type, launched from a button under Time Poll. Because it would be using some of the subgroups code, the same options would be available to the Brainstorm as to new subgroups (stuff like private/ public, who can join etc). Another option (maybe compulsory?) would to be enter a duration for a fixed meeting, and when it finishes, the participants are prompted to give a summary statement each, with the same character limit as a comment on an normal proposal.

JK

James Kiesel Sun 4 Jun 2017 12:41AM

Somewhat related, we have it high on the ideas list to release a 'Brainstorm' poll type, which is essentially asking the group for ideas without voting on them. Essentially, it's a poll which starts with no poll options, but users can add as many options as they like. (next step would be to iterate a completed brainstorm into a poll or dot vote)

I'm also interested in ways, longer term, that we can make more 'instant' decisions... the internet runs at a few different speeds, with chat being the quickest, email being slower, and in-app notifications / daily digest being slower than that. You could imagine a temperature check kinda poll which is basically "Does anyone who is here right now hate this idea?", which could iterate much more quickly than a slower but perhaps more binding decision like 'Who is our next board member going to be?'

(the slack app is an attempt at this, btw.. it's designed to be the type of poll that you can set to close in like 30 minutes, so you can get on with your day.)