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January 9th, 2020 13:10

Email to my XR local group inviting to get involved

Carlos AG
Carlos AG Public Seen by 295

Hi everybody,

I am copying here an email I have sent to my local XR group to encourage people to get involved in the Hub or in our Local Democracy Working Group.

I have thought it may be useful as a template for any of you to reach your own peers as it has in my opinion all the relevant info. So please use it however it is useful for you.

Carlos

Hi,

Here is some info and links about the work that is happening in XR on building a democracy from the bottom. Beware it's a long email.

------------------------------

First,

There is a website for the XR Future Democracy Hub. It looks nice but in my opinion it's not very intuitive. In the home page you find a kind of mission statement:

In XR we are calling for a transformation in our democracy to facilitate the necessary policies to address the climate and ecological emergency for all of us. 

This transformation, to be successful, we believe requires new democratic tools to be embedded into the DNA of the culture at all levels from local communities to the highest levels of government.  

The Future Democracy Hub is a central location and resource to support this transformation and all those who want to take an active part in it

-------------------------------

Second,

To understand what this is all about I found this document very useful: Local Democracy Working Groups guide, it's an evolving document (currently 29 pages) where they explain:

  • The need for real democracy

  • The role of local democracy working groups to achieve real democracy

  • Tools used in real democracy: peoples assemblies, talk shops, empathy circles, citizens assemblies, action groups, etc

  • Reclaiming local politics by taking the councils: flatpack democracy,

  • etc, etc and big etc

-----------------------------------

Third,

This Loomio channel is XR Future Democracy Hub discussion platform. It's a kind of forum with some extra functionalities. it's mission is described in the home page:

The primary intention of this platform is to support people running democratic sessions in their own communities. You do not have to be a member of XR to support this uptake of new democratic tools in society.

I signed up before Christmas but only engaged with it after new year. In there you can find many different discussions from theory about what is democracy, practical issues like how to best build a network of facilitators or how to approach councillors, what are local groups up to, events, training, videoconference chats and many other interesting things.

-----------------------------

Fourth,

XR Facilitator network: there is also the possibility of showing interest in the process by joining the XR Facilitator network while avoiding getting involved in the Loomio channel which has high traffic and may require more time and mental space.

You can register here, I have registered but nothing has happened yet.

I believe it's an email list but I am not sure. The picture I have is that the Facilitators are the ones doing the work in their communities while the Future Democracy Hub members are there to help them with training and resources and advocate to expand the Facilitators network.

----------------------------

Fifth

Machynlleth Local Democracy working group: in December XXX, YYY and myself took part in a Democracy Mobilisation Webinar (aka videoconference to talk about all of this) and autonomously formed a working group.  We have a WhatsApp group for internal communication. After our last XR meeting on Tuesday, ZZZ and JJJ joined the group.

We haven't done anything and there is no clear plan yet, just the intention. Hopefully once the membership of the group is well established we will meet and it will become clearer what we want to do.

----------------------------

Sixth,

What's next? Do you want to get involved?

As shown above there are 2 different processes going on: the Future Democracy Hub and the Local Democracy Working Groups.

I am very interested in both so I am going to stay actively connected to the Hub as building real democracy everywhere has always been my political dream. But also I want push for an active local working group.

We don't need everybody to be everywhere and our XR group does a lot already, so please no pressure. However if you want to actively take part on this process please think what you want to do and follow the links above for joining the hub and/or ask any of us to join the WhatsApp Machynlleth Local Democracy working group.

----------------------------

Seventh,

This is so super exciting and revolutionary but keep expectations low for now my dears. This is just the beginning, the big scale changes are to come but it will take time.

This is my own opinion that I want to add at these first steps: our potential achievements in the short term may seem irrelevant when we face a climate collapse and our current democratic system doesn't really work. So let's not forget that we live in a small town and we are "powerless", the chances to make big changes with an impact in the big picture of problems is minimal. For example we are not going to sort the climate emergency in Machynlleth just by ourselves.

Building real democracy in Machynlleth will make the town be what its inhabitants want it to be, which by itself is a great achievement. But that is only the start and what we can aim for in the short term. The impacts on the big picture will come later once we have reached radical inclusivity, once we are able to actively listen to each other and finally once the community trusts this real democracy process. When all of this is part of our day to day culture here in Machynlleth and in towns and cities all over the place, new real democratic structures will raise at other levels and power will finally rely on people and not on parliaments, parties or professional politicians.

So, yeah keep the expectations low for now but keep them high for the future!

Love and revolution,

   Carlos


Mandy Hetherton

Mandy Hetherton January 9th, 2020 13:36

thanks Carlos, really helpful!

SB

Sarah Brenman January 9th, 2020 17:34

Thanks for sharing this Carlos, it's really clear and makes sense of some the of ideas out there at the moment. There's is just so much XR stuff flying into my inbox, signal, telegram etc and this starts to 'unjumble' done the really important bits - big thanks for that x

Nadia Franchi

Nadia Franchi January 9th, 2020 17:41

Thanks Carlis, that's very useful...

Nadia 😊

JC

Jane Coker January 9th, 2020 22:12

Really useful work, Carlos. Thank you. Jane

Mofwoofoo

Mofwoofoo January 10th, 2020 15:59

Hola Carlos, its exciting to read your message because we have been working on this for some time now in Ecuador, but its for the whole world. We are working on a video that is taking us too much time, to explain clearly what horizontal governing is, which is all the things that you want democracy to be. In Rojava, Syria they have been doing it for 8 years and the Zapatistas in Mexico since around 1994. The answers are all here. We don't have to search for them, just like regenerative culture is here, it just needs to be implemented everywhere. What is holding humanity back is the criminal, corrupt governments that control the world. That is the problem, in my opinion. Its the thing that it seems no one wishes to address or acknowledge. Trillions are going into military which serves no one except the psychopathic corporatocracies who use the military to attack defenseless countries and steal their resources. Imagine if those trillions were used to fund climate crisis projects.

I have been suggesting to XR to confront these criminal gov'ts. once and for all, leveraging the world-wide protests. To first reach an accord with all the protests to make the number one demand to hold a closely monitored referendum to replace vertical with horizontal governing. This puts them on the spot in a non-violent way. Because if they agree and lose the referendum they will lose their power and they may put up a fight. Then we will fight, with sticks and stones and hackers with solidarity. I have been non-violent my whole adult life, but I would rather fight than submit to totalitarianism or extinction.

People, "thought leaders" seem to be wanting to hold meetings, etc. We don't need to waste time with that. We have the answers already. But first, we need to rid ourselves of monster in the room and then the rest will be easy comparatively.

I hope you can see the logic in these ideas and I would like to know your opinion(s).

Carlos AG

Carlos AG January 11th, 2020 15:07

Muy buenas Mofwoofoo,

I agree that Zapastistas and Rojava (and there have been other examples in history) show how horizontal democracy works but they are not enough to justify the referendum you propose let say in the UK. We need society to be used to take part in democracy before we can hope that such a setup can work. If the new structures are not in place when winning that referendum, the outcomes would become impossible to manage. I am sure too that the challenged powers would use force and repress us but for me now I can only see non violence as the way to go, we need the number of people not the physical force. I'd prefer to implant horizontal democracy by taken over more than by winning a fight

Nadia Franchi

Nadia Franchi January 11th, 2020 22:37

I dont agree with seeing government as the enemy, that is war and war is not what we need as written convincingly by Charles Eisenstain in 'Climate: A New Story'. We are all part of the problem, we all believe in the story that we are separate beings, seperate from eachother, from nature etc and this keeps us lonely and also wanting to dominate nature. If we see us all as interconnected, all living beings together we can feel less lonely and therefore have less need for overconsumption which we use to try to fill the void that loneliness creates . I also dont agree with saying you have all the answers, we can invite people to take part in future democracy events but evryone must have a voice or the system just stays the same and we dont have full democracy :)

Nadia Franchi

Nadia Franchi January 11th, 2020 22:38

I agree :)

Mofwoofoo

Mofwoofoo January 12th, 2020 01:35

Hola Nadia, I am sure I never said that I have all the answers. I have one strategy idea. It would be great if someone has a better one, since mine could end up in conflict. Also, I don't relate at all to how you describe "we". I don't hardly know anybody like that. but maybe a lot of people are like that and are suffering. Horizontal governing is all about relationships, and collaboration. And finally, its not about making gov't. our enemy, its about the fact that the gov't. is criminal and committing abominations on the people around the world and its not principled to ignore these atrocities and not stand for justice and peace.

The following list is just the tip of the iceberg. How can we tolerate these constant atrocities any more? Why were they tolerated in the first place? They are taking humanity to totalitarianism or extinction or both. These crimes listed below have got to be stopped once and for all. We need to govern ourselves horizontally, which is virtually uncorruptible, by and for the people, radical democracy, based on cooperation and collaboration. Ecology, Women's Freedom, and radical democracy are the 3 pillars for the people of Rojava, Syria that have governed this way for 8 years. We can confront corrupt governments through reaching an accord with the world-wide protesters to demand a closely monitored referendum to restructure government from vertical to horizontal.

Some of the Many Heinous Crimes of Gov't.:

Continued spying on the citizens despite it being revealed by snowden: https://www.aclu.org/other/nsa-spying-americans-illegal ( https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.aclu.org%2Fother%2Fnsa-spying-americans-illegal%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR1P9YX62DK1vp6lKWqEc_YV_cZjVvcObM2YodEqQtX0lnsQlhazplHSgsA&h=AT0DzcgCp6c7apZ05lCokL5Dd_e4EctTia_vgt5YwHhk40aB3EcHQhF_smxPkVvEbar342jSAxgm9eh5_wpeDua-ghORFx8hwReelrYAeeS_Idv_JtEY_ZqDlKqPJ7N_1G19wqP2Z1tTOkHIlo718UDk2A )

Putting whistle blowers in prison, when they are revealing corruption and crimes of gov't.https://whistleblower.org/…/huffington-post-american-whist…/ ( https://whistleblower.org/in-the-news/huffington-post-american-whistleblowers-prison-and-exile/?fbclid=IwAR3nM8s-I0Keky2_4XRqHwzWADJoxHo2K8ipl2YobfO4FWQW5WmeVnxbHWM ),

Persecution of Julien Assange happening now in London prison: https://www.independent.co.uk/…/wikileaks-julian-assange-ch… ( https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld%2Famericas%2Fwikileaks-julian-assange-chelsea-manning-torture-un-detention-whistleblower-nils-melzer-a9266076.html%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR3e4Jo9u-dXe7ETQbfaiPdVqGKKBocpDjiG8xXAHwWs7GrzQKEv7bUXFFw&h=AT0b2BaUxeYi8zONq5DshRCE8wmupQ_UyKRud8-34mC8Sy9QKNC4NLz9olbrcdJnt7H54W2Dw4E6zRrpijAnOO18BUV4oQet76bzNULkYLf49RUOXEaZ85XkRHJG8ZoO8AZtVFvO_lWhzyNvkH78PHzQVQ ), https://www.independent.co.uk/…/julian-assange-trial-wikile… ( https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fvoices%2Fjulian-assange-trial-wikileaks-us-security-services-state-secrets-robert-fisk-a8936296.html%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR3gYB5VqyFikF-AawImsUs11a5ueR-F2yPUyyxBDxjC8BlPIZLk4YpALxA&h=AT2Ysip3jCPEd7xCl41APWjfob2DjjUlaeUmjJmXoHeqWLqkvN-I3G4DbpAu9NH6NP1rVialnJc3Vp2dxkovyS0Jj3M940EvDX15YLN-oO-DcpK3g7XB_07Sh6-ZvGvzLpZ37UcvYPMZ07gVq7mG7i39Sg )

Lying to the public about the Afganistan War. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp-zFxOE_14 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp-zFxOE_14&fbclid=IwAR2y_bREq-pXOThPtijlJru83GoDdAgfIdNzYDTNpu6NrcIXfMBPgaWpLW0 ), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBHZcC9FTt8 ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBHZcC9FTt8&fbclid=IwAR0uPZSNU9lC7ZNgURj2zz3eVyBaZfT2YaLoxKpxfoRjJ57yWTER7N7VvJU )

Undermining democratic governments with bribes and threats: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btF6nKHo2i0 ( https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DbtF6nKHo2i0%26fbclid%3DIwAR3R0qSFoefETIl9YcFcvXLEWVeCHD_6sgvghkjZzLd_tZ6DYJG-8-eOAjM&h=AT3bMjUYWv7MdMKRKCbQnjAVGcpERbp4TUfPMd3MClvq2nOZdMP7MvFwWZNev45VJ0I0I0jJOqZJLrMBC5E0nCD6ynqbDl46YrNejcTn8oQXxCXPSvCS5BpMb9VBd0PcdGg_N_hG6FECcgCdJixzDM3c5g ), History with Iran: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbC2BfruYDQ ( https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DpbC2BfruYDQ%26fbclid%3DIwAR1rYNi8XaUnxIio0tN-cTwFlclSctTdd3mcBrTFtIu9oDSPzFqo_nGiAaQ&h=AT3BBvsr-NaG-4CAt7RhnfN1OPuCEa9mmXep6MP7BtUkuLZtjzAY6CSTzcPoHyXooK1ZYSpVItEz6Odx3yAr_JSRi_nBkT7bqwsDI6KJ2TolVQCTFC_MptSlsaOmc7UmK3bLjokJJmJutt9YcJnn-u_wgg )

U.S Government destruction of Syria: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpNxlhl3TXQ ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpNxlhl3TXQ&fbclid=IwAR0ebKFPMFPrpJMqXQAWZrLoF99SwBRIckp2V87FRT5SJQy2luPpdSVNefs )

The irresponsible and dangerous use of nuclear bombs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7hOpT0lPGI ( https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DM7hOpT0lPGI%26fbclid%3DIwAR2t-MUTCdkVtVPo4TXCllgbfvOyDdRarAShpf81Z2dpBbh1s2VWt5aQ6SA&h=AT0E6N6GPCFETdlEVO6YZ9W5Lm5NAQEVBKGiPqBhDmWZSYEqrgWyb6ieGxyq-CiV_EGPL9kN9C-7Xm_7ZwFS4S7UPXm7wqfXnzkMZ65F4xCvgm4J0TB9xk0BVzfEZeXCHEiV5AfJ7iRy5n9CBUqgBnQRfw ), https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nH6xkjMNdnk ( https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DnH6xkjMNdnk%26fbclid%3DIwAR1V1bFKJsptvMJQdNR5nfwApa849kHQCuywzjFIeQt0v7_UKcIfxaHlWus&h=AT1WcmwK9-Ka5HyRrHjytY8ZFnpo67jICUFGA1KcDTebKtoVV8WFQcxS_YK17VdP4CGlYzl_0WS_IGVKvaYEoZvfosBkcBnEIxjDmMDDwPkDXm-xzp4PjjOZ9SI0qG2W3nvQQi0o7X1ibFHv-OxRUDMHHw )

Existence of CIA: the CIA is completely secret, they can operate without any oversight, no one knows how much funding they receive. This could never exist in a real democracy. If you had all the money you wanted, access to the best minds, to the most advanced science, had no problem murdering people, what would you do? Take over the world, since 1948, that is what they have been doing.

Federal Reserve:The Federal Reserve was establised as a private central bank. The shareholders were (and still are today) the major banks. The exact shareholdings are not public record. The creation of the central bank moved the responsibility for monetary policy from Congress to the FED.

2.3 trillion dollars lost by the pentagon 9/10/2011: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLV2g16IsfI ( https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZLV2g16IsfI%26fbclid%3DIwAR0ZfGWTgF95ffgNNd-qBVjRIRFhn6c-w9Qz5n71mLTFe8uGgmKMuzNoPkE&h=AT0nGFMWY0M2pRVSrgdpid0Z4QJtlFJKrsoTcg9T-kiTgeVqnGTX7mLkElIkZKcljMckxmRJHG1SgVID_-MoXaVBzbWw31ipZsTLYm4rMILXeqmss4T-bkfWsHGLPc1dPDUwvdYz2rC08SLBKXvg6Q5Eig )

US has killed more than 20 million people in 37 "victim nations" since world war II: https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-has-killed-more-th…/5492051 ( https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.globalresearch.ca%2Fus-has-killed-more-than-20-million-people-in-37-victim-nations-since-world-war-ii%2F5492051%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2V85gbV5IwVNtUcUDESxJPt_Gw7qH-uCG7UJ8eazqqKxU9DcPeiRkiQXY&h=AT1_gqTJCosEbgDDuI7u36k2urJIMmhK3VYhWgGATwA0JfhSp9sgeKZyNboQk0AJbFa_Mh80isd-zn2jocqk-IwTq0pMruXGiQO5bMusqugGRjK03tLjTITDVwHlnMTt2URlLT12VDj0XRcY23iwAhumcm7wVI9Ki1ImL50 )

False Flags: ) The NSA admits that it lied about what really happened in the Gulf of Tonkin incident in 1964 ... manipulating data to make it look like North Vietnamese boats fired on a U.S. ship so as to create a false justification for the Vietnam war. A U.S. Congressional committee admitted* that - as part of its "Cointelpro" campaign - the FBI had used many provocateurs in the 1950s through 1970s to carry out violent acts and falsely blame them on political activists. * https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/…/intelligence-related-… ( https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.intelligence.senate.gov%2Fresources%2Fintelligence-related-commissions%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0h6Uf6yzeQDAXz6s7S4iz8h1yhPWbAz5xPw2EjYtJ1NKriBKi8Snb80eA&h=AT3DwvTpHxuYDsaw8eRL3ZDC2-sK4udd_gft9qn_udT_pbYbf90uLt3E5ufVolCcIVlJzeOg1AXeOSvVsxKAgg4s7U_KBfIz_DYnrYrGROit8HpLzFtaMDoopGzBoy74XK7-LL0Ld-wnVKeGoHbfVXuM4A ) The U.S. falsely blamed Iraq for playing a role in the 9/11 attacks - as shown by a memo from the defense secretary - as one of the main justifications for launching the Iraq war. Even after the 9/11 Commission admitted that there was no connection, Dick Cheney said that the evidence is "overwhelming" that al Qaeda had a relationship with Saddam Hussein's regime, that Cheney "probably" had information unavailable to the Commission, and that the media was not 'doing their homework' in reporting such ties. Top U.S. government officials now admit that the Iraq war was really launched for oil ... not 9/11 or weapons of mass destruction. The key point is that the U.S. falsely blamed it on Iraq, when it knew Iraq had nothing to do with it.).

By any measure the US has long used terrorism. In '78-79 the Senate was trying to pass a law against international terrorism - in every version they produced, the lawyers said the US would be in violation.

"Terrorism is the best political weapon for nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death".
- Adolph Hitler
"Why of course the people don't want war ... But after all it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship ... Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country." - Hermann Goering, Nazi leader.

"The easiest way to gain control of a population is to carry out acts of terror. [The public] will clamor for such laws if their personal security is threatened".
- Josef Stalinhttp://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/42falseflags.php ( http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/42falseflags.php )

John Bunzl

John Bunzl January 12th, 2020 08:45

As Nadia suggests, treating governments as enemies seems somewhat problematic. Yes, governments engage in all sorts of harmful and sometimes criminal behaviour which should never be excused. However, when it comes to what we're really talking about here - i.e. climate change and social justice - it's vital for us to realise that the main reason governments aren't acting on climate change is because they're caught on the horns of a dilemma. Simple fact is that dramatically reducing emissions means increasing the costs of business. But any nation that does that in advance of others would only see those businesses and thousands of jobs move elsewhere. The result? The emissions would continue to be emitted anyway (but from somewhere else) but the economy of the country concerned would weaken, investment would dry up, unemployment would rise and the next election would be lost. So my suggestion is that we have a choice: we can either continue to cast governments as the enemy, as the global justice movement has been doing for the last 30-40 years with little effect to show for it. Or we can take the dilemma seriously in which case we'd focus on developing an international framework for cooperation and a means of driving our politicians and governments to join it. Something like www.simpol.org for example.

Mofwoofoo

Mofwoofoo January 12th, 2020 11:52

Hola Carlos, I am advocating a non-violent way to confront governments. Violence is only a last resort if they are randomly attacking the people. The people in Rojava have to fight and so did the Zapatistas. I would hate for their be a conflict, but sometimes one needs to take courage and stand for one's principles. I hope you see the importance of humanity shaking off this deathgrip.

Carlos AG

Carlos AG January 12th, 2020 12:14

Mofwoofoo, of course all these atrocities and many other things happening in the world are untolerable. We are confronting them in many ways although it's true that nothing seems to change. I don't see what is the argument.

Mofwoofoo

Mofwoofoo January 12th, 2020 13:18

Yes, I see the beauty of your idea, John, I wonder however, how feasible is it when it comes to getting the votes? So, I can support what you are doing, at the same time continue to believe that gov'ts. need to be directly confronted in a non-violent manner in the way I suggest or maybe someone has a better way to confront them.

Mofwoofoo

Mofwoofoo January 12th, 2020 13:25

I am hoping that XR will take up my idea and coordinate an accord with all the protesters in the world to unilaterally, at the same time, make this demand. It is a non-violent way to confront the criminals.

Mofwoofoo

Mofwoofoo January 12th, 2020 13:27

How would you implant horizontal democracy with the criminals still in power? Do you mean on a small scale, town by town?

Carlos AG

Carlos AG January 12th, 2020 13:49

For me the approach is to create the real democratic structures in towns, once there are enough they will naturally federate and create a stronger power. Only once something is in place the current power structures can be challenged (maybe through the referendum you propose) but I want to emphasise that: we need those new structures in place first, they cannot be created from nothing just after wining a referendum

Mofwoofoo

Mofwoofoo January 12th, 2020 13:57

Carlos, it would be great if it could be a world movement, but how could it feasibly be done and quickly, since the threat of extinction puts everything on urgent? I just had the idea of advocating a world-wide boycott of all things American, to put pressure on the rogue state. Do you think that this could be enacted and is a good idea?

Carlos AG

Carlos AG January 12th, 2020 14:12

I think the matter of urgency is what has made XR get this far, however I think that doing something worldwide is a big massive job despite XR seems to be doing quite well

Mofwoofoo

Mofwoofoo January 12th, 2020 16:23

yes, its a big idea, a big job. but to give these protests more power, it would be important to synchronize both the date and the demand if it can be agreed upon. These protests need to be organized and have a clear, doable, goal which will have substantive effects. We should go for the head of the dragon and vanquish it, hopefully non-violently, together as millions of protesters. too often protests have no lasting effects. XR probably has the most contacts or could get them to do this. we need to think big, and make the radical systemic changes necessary if we are to have a chance to escape extinction or totalitarianism. and now is the time, with all the world-wide protests which the criminal gov'ts. will quash if given enough time.

John Bunzl

John Bunzl January 12th, 2020 17:20

Er, not sure what you mean by "getting the votes". Simpol isn't a political party and doesn't stand for election - because it doesn't need to. Instead, it brings the existing political parties into much stiffer competition with one another to achieve our ends. That's how over 95 UK MPs have been driven to support it and a growing number in other countries. See https://simpol.org/who-we-are/our-politicians for details. It also doesn't mean giving up on non-violent protest. We can do both. All people need to do is sign up.

Nadia Franchi

Nadia Franchi January 12th, 2020 18:57

Yes Simpol is a good tool.

Nadia Franchi

Nadia Franchi January 12th, 2020 19:00

I believe XR is teaching people a new way of democracy using empathy and it's doing so quite quickly. Using empathy circles and people's assemblies. They are growing worldwide and using these ideas and tools like Simpol we can change politics ☺️

Carlos AG

Carlos AG January 12th, 2020 20:05

Sorry I'm getting confused, are you talking about a referendum, about protests against USA, against government, protest to defend our still not existing horizontal democracy? What exactly do you want?

By the way I'm not in this forum to organise protests, I'm building democracy from the bottom

Mofwoofoo

Mofwoofoo January 12th, 2020 22:12

This is what horizontal governance is all about; connections, relationships, working together. Also, I have plenty experience with non-violent communication (cnvc.org) and that is all about empathy. All these good things that we both want are drops in the ocean right now and will take years to catch on, in my opinion, under the current conditions, and we don't have forever. I also agree Simpol is a great idea and I signed up. There are many things we can do concurrently, like recycling, regenerative agriculture, not buying from corporations, etc (because it takes a long time to get everyone doing this). but none of this is enough, it seems. the reality of the world being under the control of corrupt, criminal entities needs to be faced and challenged, ignoring it will not really solve anything. if things collapse, those with the most power (military) fill the power vaccuum, things would just be worse. I know it may seem daunting or frightening to challenge such a powerful mafia like organization, but if the people in Rojava can do it, and the Zapatistas in Mexico, the whole world needs to do it at the same time. Can we agree?

Mofwoofoo

Mofwoofoo January 12th, 2020 22:14

"We can confront corrupt governments through reaching an accord with the world-wide protesters to demand a closely monitored referendum to restructure government from vertical to horizontal." all at the same time. Its non-violent. Its about ground-up radical democracy.

Nadia Franchi

Nadia Franchi January 13th, 2020 09:24

How would you do that?

Mofwoofoo

Mofwoofoo January 13th, 2020 12:34

2 Strategies for the whole World:

The corrupt system needs to be changed from vertical to horizontal, which is virtually uncorruptible, to prevent this from ever happening again. So that the citizens can self-govern with radical democracy. The question is how to accomplish it. I suggest first to coordinate the world-wide protests to simultaneously make this a demand.

Society does not have to be disrupted, it will continue as before, People will be voted into the circles of each sector of the city, the people who work in those sectors, and there will be clear lines of communication with feedback loops, to assure that the whole system remains coherent and collaborative. We are still working on the video to explain horizontal governing.

The other idea I have is a world-wide boycott of all things from the USA until it pulls out its military bases not only in Iran, but everywhere. No one gave them authority to be "policenen of the world", and until it switches from vertical to horizontal. It isn't enough just to remove the current criminal politicians. If you agree with these 2 strategies, how about helping to make these ideas viral? Nadia, the strategies/ideas need to go viral. XR needs to be considering them and everyone helping to make them viral, assuming that you agree, of course. There needs to be many strategies working at the same time. Since we are dealing with such monumental, world-wide issues, in my opinion.

Lawrence Morgan

Lawrence Morgan February 5th, 2020 14:42

so folks is this email @Carlos AG wrote now being used and sent out to xr local groups? I also seen some chatter on the mattermost channel and a text that being worked on

Carlos AG

Carlos AG February 5th, 2020 16:48

Thanks for asking,

No this message is not an "official" one. I imagine you are asking to send it to Cymru local groups in which case have you seen this zoom calls for tomorrow Thursday and Sunday?
https://www.loomio.org/d/awzN4h1x/intro-webinar-to-community-democracy-in-an-xr-context

They are mainly aimed to Welsh local groups (obviously everybody is welcome) and I'd say better to look from which local groups we have participants and then we can target the specific missing ones