Loomio
Thu 16 Mar 2017

Add to manifesto: Ban use of EVMs in elections and go back to paper ballots

PP
Pirate Praveen Public Seen by 537

EVMs cannot be trusted because there is no way to verify the results. We have no idea how the software is written and even if the source code is available, we cannot verify if the same binary is running on the machine.

Update: At the minimum there has to be a paper trail which can be machine counted

Some discussion about technology and voting https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/21/pirate-party-online-voting-4chan-government

MK

Manoj Karingamadathil Thu 16 Mar 2017

പൊതുജനത്തിന് സംശയമുള്ള സ്ഥിതിക്ക് സർക്കാർ മെഷിന്റെ ഡിസൈൻ പരസ്യമാക്കണം. കോഡ് സ്വതന്ത്രമായി പരിശോധിക്കുന്നതിനുള്ള സൗകര്യം പൊതുജനത്തിന് കൊടുക്കണം.
https://www.facebook.com/vu2swx/posts/10212531663232586?pnref=story

PP

Pirate Praveen Thu 16 Mar 2017

Translation: Since people have doubts about EVMs, govt should publish the EVM design. People should also be able to verify the source code.

As I said above, even if the source code is available, how do we know if the binary flashed into the machine is built from the same source code?

PP

Pirate Praveen Thu 16 Mar 2017

But yes, if the hardware design and software is available to public, we have a better chance of finding the backdoors/vulnerabilities.

AG

Alexander Gounder Thu 16 Mar 2017

I think there could be simpler solution, paper receipts printed after casting of vote which can be checked by the voter and dropped into a ballot box. If a candidate feels the EVM results are tampered he can ask for a manual recount.

This could furthered by printing to receipts, one for the paper ballot and the other for the voter to keep or give to his candidate for reference.

SK

Sooraj Kenoth Thu 16 Mar 2017

I deny @manojkmohan opinion. Even if the code or hardware is public we don't have any mechanism to ensure the code inside the machine is the same as published.

I support @gounder 's opinion. We don't need to ban the tools or systems. We need a mechanism to ensure the system is fool proof.

PP

Pirate Praveen Thu 16 Mar 2017

I don't think the receipts are a good idea, it will take away the secrecy. So just having a paper trail, that can be verified by the voter should be enough.

SK

Sooraj Kenoth Thu 16 Mar 2017

We can have a micro printer(Not thermal) connected to the EVM. It will print the exact sign of the candidate who got once vote. So one card will contain only one sign, so voter can confirms his vote. The voter can put the card in ballet secretly. When ever there is a allegation we can count the number of cards with the help of a scanning Machine.

V

vik@hamara Thu 16 Mar 2017

It seems like going backwards, I don't think counting paper ballots was always accurate / safe / not corruptable. How about defining votes as transactions and using blockchain to store them. These guys are doing it: https://followmyvote.com/online-voting-technology/blockchain-technology/

B

Bady Fri 17 Mar 2017

An article on the same topic that appeared in today's (17/03/2017) mathrubhumi newspaper:
http://digitalpaper.mathrubhumi.com/m/1138644/Thrissur/17-March-2016#issue/8/1

PP

Pirate Praveen Fri 17 Mar 2017

This could be an option. The question is about being able to verify the results. But doesn't blockchain technology require internet connection everywhere? Then securing each node can be a challenge. It will need more analysis and can be considered for future. But that is not a reason to support current unverifiable EVMs.

PP

Pirate Praveen Fri 17 Mar 2017

PP

Pirate Praveen started a proposal Sun 19 Mar 2017

Add to manifesto: Restore trust in election process Closed Wed 29 Mar 2017

Outcome
by Pirate Praveen Tue 25 Apr 2017

We have consensus here and 4 permanent members voted for the proposal

Election process should be beyond doubt and being able to verify the correctness of vote count is a basic requirement. Current Electronic Voting Machines (EVMs) does not have a verifications mechanism and makes any kind of tampering impossible to detect. We have to blindly trust there was no tampering.

We will ensure that
a) all EVMs will have a Voter Verifiable Paper Trail (a receipt printed by the EVM which can be put into a ballot box)
or
b) go back to paper ballots
to restore trust in election process.

With a paper trail, voters can verify the correctness of their votes and a manual counting of these paper receipts will make it possible to detect any kind of tampering in case of doubt.

Results
Agree - 7
Abstain - 7
Disagree - 7
Block - 7
7 people have voted (5%)
PP

Pirate Praveen
Agree
Sun 19 Mar 2017

yes, trust in election process is required for democracy and being able to verify results is critical in that.

B

Bady
Agree
Sun 19 Mar 2017

Paper trail seems to be a good idea!

SM

Shanavas M
Agree
Sun 19 Mar 2017

Great idea

JI

Jackson Isaac
Agree
Mon 20 Mar 2017

V

vik@hamara
Agree
Mon 20 Mar 2017

DU

[deactivated account]
Agree
Tue 21 Mar 2017

If not ban, atleast a paper trail would be better for accountability

ME

Manohar Elavarthi
Agree
Wed 22 Mar 2017

PP

Pirate Praveen Wed 5 Apr 2017

Now with video, the evidence of tampering http://www.deccanherald.com/content/604227/evm-registers-only-bjp-votes.html (just adding here for completeness).

B

Bady Sun 16 Apr 2017

this has been added to the Manifesto (page 3)

PP

Pirate Praveen Sun 14 May 2017

In the last friday's call we discussed about AAP's demonstration of voter machine fraud. I thought it would a good idea for us to write an article to clarify our opposition to current form of EVMs, publish it on our site and spread it widely. I have started it here, please contribute https://pad.disroot.org/p/EVMs

PRP

Pirate Radio Podcasts Sat 22 Jul 2017

HELL YA! Damn EVMs can be HACKED in under a minute - utterly mind boggling