Loomio
Sun 22 Mar 2015 8:11PM

Replace Google Groups mailing lists with Diaspora Forum mailing lists

DU [deactivated account] Public Seen by 398

The Diaspora Forum now supports the posting of new topics via email. It also supports posting replies to topics via email too.

In other words, Diaspora Forum has full mailing list functionality, with the addition of a web interface in the shape of the somewhat incredible Discourse suite for those who may not be familiar with mailing list functionality.

I find the fact that the Diaspora project continues to use a Google product absolutely ridiculous and I propose we drop all the existing Google Groups completely and replace each group/list with the mailing list functionality that is supported by the community-run Diaspora Forum.

If you have time spare, there was a similar proposal a number of years ago with about a hundred comments on it which can be found at https://www.loomio.org/d/oasCl9wk/running-our-own-mailing-lists

DU

[deactivated account] Sun 22 Mar 2015 8:21PM

I find the fact that the Diaspora project continues to use a Google product absolutely ridiculous and I propose we drop all the existing Google Groups completely and replace each group/list with the mailing list functionality that is supported by the community-run Diaspora Forum.

Agree. I don't even know if these lists are usedn by someone.

A

aj Sun 22 Mar 2015 9:31PM

seems like a good idea, rather than having things scatter all round on different sites, the forum is already there and doing a good job of the other things that don't belong on GitHub or Wiki or Loomio :) plus i've never used it as i refuse to have a Google account

G

goob Sun 22 Mar 2015 9:48PM

See Run our own mailing list to avoid Google dependancy.

It's good that there is now an alternative working mailing list, but there would need to be some guarantee (1) that the mailing list was within the control of the core team and (2) that it would be available for as long as it was needed.

T

Theatre-X Mon 23 Mar 2015 12:54AM

I'm for it.

PP

Pirate Praveen Mon 23 Mar 2015 3:18AM

Yes, this would be great.

JH

Jonne Haß Mon 23 Mar 2015 3:57AM

Please work out a migration strategy before putting this to vote again (note that we did decide this in the past). diaspoa-discuss currently has 856 and diaspora-dev currently has 1602 members we should not loose.

DU

[deactivated account] Mon 23 Mar 2015 9:02AM

Migration need not be complicated. Simply email all current Google Groups users informing them that the Google Groups mailing lists will no longer be accepting new posts from XYZ date and that if they wish to continue receiving the mails they should now subscribe at ABC etc (naturally provide them clear instructions).

DU

[deactivated account] Mon 23 Mar 2015 9:03AM

@goob Agreed

(And who are the 'core team'?)

JR

Jason Robinson Mon 23 Mar 2015 8:20PM

I find the fact that the Diaspora project continues to use a Google product absolutely ridiculous

Why is it absolutely ridiculous?

(1) that the mailing list was within the control of the core team and (2) that it would be available for as long as it was needed.

That can hardly be guaranteed by any solution ;) Even Google.

diaspoa-discuss currently has 856 and diaspora-dev currently has 1602 members we should not loose.

I don't see why we have to migrate users. Actually, that would be not very nice to subscribe them to something they haven't opted in to. Those who are interested will follow.

If this goes to a vote I'm totally abstaining this time :P

JR

Jason Robinson Mon 23 Mar 2015 8:23PM

(And who are the ‘core team’?)

Technically, no one is the core team, since we don't have hierarchy like that. In reality, anyone who is active is the core team. I'd say you are.

But in terms of the code base related decisions, the core team is the people listed in the GitHub organization page. However, I don't think anyone agrees the mailing lists are related to the code, so for the mailing lists, I don't think there is a core team.

F

Flaburgan Wed 25 Mar 2015 8:03AM

To me, core team are members of the github organization who were approved here on loomio. They are also the persons who received the team@ mails.

About using discourse instead of Google Groups, +1000 of course. We just see with Google Code that hackers are not the target of Google anymore. Everything which don't make money is dropped, the Groups will probably be too (forcing users to use G+ instead).

About the migration well, the solution of Rich can be fine: send an email on the groups saying we are using something else. Automatically register Groups users looks fine to me too: if they are registered, that means they are still interested (they would have unsubscripted if not) but you know how things are going, you read an e-mail "please register there" and then time is missing, you forget... So we will definitely loose some users if we don't migrate automatically.

JR

Jason Robinson Wed 25 Mar 2015 8:08AM

Everything which don’t make money is dropped, the Groups will probably be too (forcing users to use G+ instead).

I do feel like this too. Google just recently started ramping down code.google.com too. I totally wouldn't be surprised to see a ramp down announcement regarding groups in the not so far future.

G

goob Wed 25 Mar 2015 2:49PM

Automatically register Groups users looks fine to me too: if they are registered, that means they are still interested

It would probably be worth sending a mail to the current mailing list subscribers, out of courtesy, saying something like 'We're going to migrate this list to Diaspora Forum. You will be automatically subscribed to the new list on {date}, so please unsubscribe from this list if you don't want to be subscribed to the new source'.

F

Flaburgan Wed 25 Mar 2015 3:00PM

Sure! So, let me summarize:

  1. Make test with discourse and be sure it works correctly
  2. Update the wiki, the official website and the project to replace GG by Discourse
  3. Promote officially that we now use Discourse (at least a post with diaspora* HQ)
  4. Send an e-mail to the GG to say that we migrate and the users will automatically be transfered to Discourse
  5. Actually migrate the users.

I guess we do not migrate the content, but we don't delete the GG just in case we still need to access it?

JR

Jason Robinson Wed 25 Mar 2015 3:04PM

...what happened to "vote" :D

F

Flaburgan Wed 25 Mar 2015 3:06PM

Only positive feedback here, but if you think it is necessary I can open one.

JR

Jason Robinson Wed 25 Mar 2015 3:07PM

I think as this idea has already been rejected once we should vote. At least a week, extend if it becomes as close as before.

F

Poll Created Wed 25 Mar 2015 3:38PM

Change our mailing list from Google Groups to Discourse Closed Thu 30 Apr 2015 9:04PM

Rich set a nice discourse at https://diasporaforum.org/
As a free software project, to avoid Google would be nice, besides, Google is currently dropping a lot of "non-rentable" projects (last one in the list: Google Code).

Discourse proposes the same features than Google Group: be able to create a thread and answer to it using e-mail or a browser.

Vote Yes if you want to quit Google Group and officially promote Discourse as a way to discuss about diaspora*.

Vote No if you want to keep using Googe Group.

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 68.3% 28 BO F PP P L N A B JS A PN B FL PC A DU C R T D TR L T M P D DU ATA
Abstain 14.6% 6 JR T IGM L J RM
Disagree 17.1% 7 JH G DS SVB S W V
Block 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 243 BK ST FS MS TS AA S CB HF DM GC JH RF M EG G AX PC BB LP T DY SH DU H M RF R DM EP E S AS MK R JD PP F PA SK A G TT J NV N CB BC RD O MS M RS- TM IS D MZ TM MB PG M EK JS AL MS R OU KM DS MS P S JL AKS SJ RD N KAK A S JB DC S S V PS AA C S MP GL DU VM E EA P DO DN FO TB JB L EM MM C LS MS MM HSB AMQ DU VK D AV Y JD A AT S AM MDB M FS MM RV HL GK DU DV E E TA T L SP RF CM DE D M DU DL MJS J JHI E ED CC G J DU MS F NR B Y JM DS SA MN SM LM CG A FF CK H L A KS RD M UV N EL AC K AM KM H C MF AI AG TRA CJC S DU SC TM FT M GS DV BS LR HS S MS DA CA AF AS A MN T AR S GZ BJ AP J C TW HC T MK MC T MS R F EAP JB JD VP FC TT SD SS HE JM NL AA ASM A TJ M GZ C S CK

41 of 284 people have voted (14%)

P

Perseo
Agree
Wed 25 Mar 2015 3:47PM

I love the idea!

FL

Frode Lindeijer
Agree
Wed 25 Mar 2015 3:51PM

Seen discourse being using here and there. I like the setup.
Fuck Google; they're evil.

DS

Dennis Schubert
Disagree
Wed 25 Mar 2015 4:17PM

No migration strategy and the points since our last decision (https://www.loomio.org/d/oasCl9wk/running-our-own-mailing-lists) have not changed.

PN

Pablo Neira
Agree
Wed 25 Mar 2015 5:44PM

Quiero que diaspora tenga grupos propios.

ATA

Asli Telli Aydemir
Agree
Thu 26 Mar 2015 6:37AM

the privacy measures and filter mechanisms are really lame in googlegroups. Message bounce-offs are also pain in the neck:((

L

lebarjack
Agree
Thu 26 Mar 2015 8:14AM

It's cool that discourse can be used as classical mailing list.

SVB

Steffen van Bergerem
Disagree
Fri 27 Mar 2015 1:23AM

As long as Google doesn't ditch Google Groups and we aren't running the mailing list ourselves on the diasporafoundation.org domain I think we shouldn't change our mailing lists.

G

goob
Disagree
Sat 28 Mar 2015 12:43PM

I have no objection to this in principle, but I think it's too early to make a decision on it because details need to be worked out (such as migration strategy) before deciding whether this is the right move at this point.

DU

[deactivated account]
Agree
Sat 28 Mar 2015 2:32PM

I think it's better to use tools that are in the hand of the comunity.

P

PaulRichardson
Agree
Wed 1 Apr 2015 4:56AM

I am all about giving google less and less. It's time to move on

B

Bugsbane
Agree
Fri 3 Apr 2015 1:23PM

Running the community on a Google product is hypocritical. The alternative is clear. Specifics have largely been worked out in the comments. It's time.

B

Bugsbane
Agree
Fri 3 Apr 2015 1:24PM

Running the community on a Google product is hypocritical. The alternative is clear. Specifics have largely been worked out in the comments, or can be after we agree on the principal of migrating. It's time.

T

ThinkGNU
Agree
Sat 4 Apr 2015 2:52PM

It is worth moving away from Google services.

A

Adrenalin
Agree
Thu 30 Apr 2015 4:02PM

google sucks, always!

F

Flaburgan Wed 25 Mar 2015 3:52PM

There is a last point to discuss though:
Actually every official websites (diasporafoundation.org, the wiki...) are hosted by @dennisschubert

To see @rich1 hosting the discourse is nice. However, it would mean that the access has to be shared with at least one or two other person. If we don't do that and @rich1 suddently stop answering, we would be blocked.

Is that a problem for you? And do we want to keep this domain, or also host it on a diasporafoundation.org sub-domain?

DU

[deactivated account] Wed 25 Mar 2015 4:10PM

Lots of posts since my last so I'll group some replies/feedback :)

Not in any special order:

1) I will not be migrating any users from Google Groups. At all. Ever. As per my suggestion above, I recommend emailing all existing users saying GG will not be accepting any new posts from XYZ date and please follow these instructions if you wish to remain subscribed, etc. However, I would not be opposed to someone else performing a user account migration task, but I personally, will not be (I have no idea how you'd export the existing user accounts from Google, or import them to Discourse, or deal with duplicates, or people who already have DF accounts, etc) - someone else may take on this task if deemed essential, but I will not.

2) I would not recommend deleting the existing Google Groups. Simply 'lock' the groups so no new posts can be made.

3) The last vote on this subject was quite controversial and was almost 50/50 so I fully support a user vote here and now, on this Loomio thread.

4) The server which I rent to host Diaspora Forum is private but I will happily provide root level access to the server itself for one or two other team members. I will not provide access to the web admin control panel for the hosting account as I have many servers from the same provider, my bank/payment details are on there, etc, but I will gladly setup/share some root-level SSH server logins where required.

5) I will not be changing the domain name of Diaspora Forum - there is too much content on the forum now.

6) It would probably never happen, but to protect Diaspora some thought should be given to "what if Rich stops paying for the server" (perhaps I lost my job, my marbles, etc) - there should be a continuity plan somewhere perhaps?

DU

[deactivated account] Wed 25 Mar 2015 4:11PM

I hope that doesn't come across as harsh, that was not my intention!

But some of the things mentioned above are too much work for the limited personal free time that I have available :)

PN

Pablo Neira Wed 25 Mar 2015 5:49PM

Diaspora debe tener GRUPOS por que las personas nos colocamos naturalmente en grupos y nos gusta unirnos a los que pertenecen a nuestro grupo para compartir información.

PC

Pablo Cúbico Thu 26 Mar 2015 5:31AM

@rich1 Thanks for being so clear on the status of the Diaspora Forum server! If it will end up being the main discussion board, I think it's reasonable to think about funding it, not sure how, and I think that will be voted here too.

Also, in the event of you not being able to set it up, I think we'll also need to know if you would be willing to transfer the contents to another server, donated by another member of the community (or by anyone, who knows).

On the other hand, the community itself will have to decide whether to carry on with that or choose a free (as in gratis) alternative.

That is as far as I can go for a "continuity plan", you are very right in bringing that up.

ATA

Asli Telli Aydemir Thu 26 Mar 2015 6:43AM

I don't think the migration process is going to be too-consuming if a few people handle the technical biz and let us/others know of which simple steps to take. Totally agree w/Flaburgan in this respect. My vote is FOR migration to Discourse or any other free alternative.

JS

Juan Santiago Thu 26 Mar 2015 7:22AM

I agree, close post publication in google, I do not agree to migrate the old contents and users, in many countries migrate user data without their consent would be illegal in EU sure illegal.

G

goob Sat 28 Mar 2015 3:52PM

That's not what this vote is, Augier. That vote has already been taken here. This vote is whether Rich's Diaspora Forum Discourse is the right community-run resource to use for Diaspora mailing lists at this time.

DU

[deactivated account] Sat 28 Mar 2015 8:12PM

Hmm ? What does Google groups has to do with that so ?

I read the proposition : "Vote Yes if you want to quit Google Group and officially promote Discourse as a way to discuss about diaspora *."

It seams reasonnable to me.

DU

[deactivated account] Sat 28 Mar 2015 9:38PM

To (re)confirm, there is no migration strategy because nothing will be migrated.

No user accounts, no posts / content.

Nothing will be migrated from the existing Google Groups.

I could ask "why would it be? It's a mailing list" - but I won't :)

"Simply email all current Google Groups users informing them that the Google Groups mailing lists will no longer be accepting new posts from XYZ date and that if they wish to continue receiving the mails they should now subscribe at ABC etc (naturally provide them clear instructions)."

And:

"Simply ‘lock’ the [Google] groups so no new posts can be made."

Hope that clears up the whole mailing list 'migration' subject :)

JS

Juan Santiago Sat 28 Mar 2015 10:25PM

@goob I think the conditions have been made clear in these days with the questions that have been answered here, do you have more questions? Is it okay more days to vote?

@rich1 more dyas?

Is a pity one negative vote from a person who agrees only for lack of knowing some details that can be resuletos just asking and agreeing.

It's great that people pretend to know the server conditions, but remember that conditions in google we know and are very bad.

I do not participate on the mailing lists of Diaspora because I am conscientious objector to use proprietary software and services, I think Diaspora need not have any dependence on big corporatios doing much damage. This is a good opportunity to solve that.

Sorry about my English.

DU

[deactivated account] Sun 29 Mar 2015 6:17AM

Sure, more days to vote is ok.

F

Flaburgan Sun 29 Mar 2015 7:25AM

@goob

Vote Yes if you want to quit Google Group and officially promote Discourse as a way to discuss about diaspora*.

Vote No if you want to keep using Googe Group.

The vote is clear, it's not about how or what exactly, it's just which one do you prefer.

G

goob Sun 29 Mar 2015 2:02PM

@flaburgan so this proposal isn't specifically about using the Discourse that @rich set up at https://diasporaforum.org/?

If that's the case, that wasn't clear to me from your proposal text.

F

Flaburgan Tue 31 Mar 2015 7:59AM

@goob it is. But it is not about migration of users.

F

Flaburgan Wed 1 Apr 2015 6:49AM

To @goob @dennisschubert @steffenvanbergerem and @waithamai do you need more time to discuss and expose the blocking points for you? = should I add some time to the vote?

DU

[deactivated account] Wed 1 Apr 2015 9:43AM

should I add some time to the vote

Yeah, I would - just in case.

SVB

Steffen van Bergerem Wed 1 Apr 2015 9:50PM

@flaburgan: @jhass wrote earlier that

diaspora-discuss currently has 856 and diaspora-dev currently has 1602 members

Because of that I think we should only move our mailing lists somewhere else if we have REALLY good reasons to do that. We have more than a thousand members who would have to sign up on diasporaforum.org to use the new mailinglists. The email address is mentioned on a lot of websites and we would have to ask at least the biggest ones to change the address.

Everything on our mailing lists is public and no one needs a Google account to participate. Because of that I don't think that using Google Groups is a privacy issue.

When we move our mailing lists to diasporaforum.org we would depend on a single person. If Rich decides that he wants to sell the domain or just doesn't want to run the server anymore we have a huge problem. I don't say that he would do that but he could tell us someday that he will close diasporaforum the next day. Google announced that they will close Google Code in 2016. I think if Google would decide to do the same with Google Groups we would also have at least 6 months to find another place for our mailing lists.

DS

Dennis Schubert Wed 1 Apr 2015 9:59PM

What Steffen said. However, I'd like to highlight that you do not need a Google account to participate on Google Groups, but you do need to sign up on diasporaforum.org.

JS

Juan Santiago Wed 1 Apr 2015 10:08PM

@steffenvanbergerem

I think it's curious be more worried by the decisions of @rich1 (a single person) than deciciones of google (a single evil corporation)

What if google decide delete google groups as have removed code?

DS

Dennis Schubert Wed 1 Apr 2015 10:14PM

Google is not the best company in the world, for sure. However, they will not simply remove a service. If they decide to discontinue Google Groups, we would have at least 3 months to make a decision.

In fact, Google is great at hosting reliable services and I am sure you know that. E-Mails are public anyway, so that's nothing to protect. In addition, Google Groups got a great search, we have a nice moderation queue and it just works.

Just be more reasonable, folks.

PP

Pirate Praveen Thu 2 Apr 2015 6:48AM

(not sure if email reply works, it never worked for me, so re-posting)

On Thursday 02 April 2015 03:20 AM, Steffen van Bergerem (Loomio) wrote:

Everything on our mailing lists is public and no one needs a Google
account to participate. Because of that I don’t think that using Google
Groups is a privacy issue.

Its a dependency issue. When we have people in our community willing to
manage this infrastructure, why depend on an external party?

  • show quoted text -

I don't think that is a good way to approach the situation. If we don't
trust our own community core members how can we continue as project? How
about diasporafoundation.org domain? Yes, it should not be a single
person, but excluding people from the community is not good either. If
the concern is about domain control, we can ask Rich if he is willing to
transfer the domain to project. He has already agreed to give access to
servers.

On Thursday 02 April 2015 03:29 AM, Dennis Schubert (Loomio) wrote:

What Steffen said. However, I’d like to highlight that you do not need a
Google account to participate on Google Groups, but you do need to sign
up on diasporaforum.org.

You have to subscribe to google groups and I think signing up to diasporaforum.org is similar.

Core team can have concern about control, but it has to be addressed by adding contributors to core team, not be making the current core team as final. For me someone managing diasporaforum.org is also a core team. If this is about control, say it like that. if you can't trust Rich, how can we trust the other core team as well?

DU

[deactivated account] Thu 2 Apr 2015 10:15AM

If we do end up moving the mailing lists away from Google and on to Diaspora forum then:

we can ask Rich if he is willing to transfer the domain to project. He has already agreed to give access to servers

Yes, of course, I will happily transfer all of the Diaspora Forum domain names to the Foundation so they can control/manage them all.

@flaburgan thanks for the extension, you may need to extend it some more though :+1:

DU

[deactivated account] Thu 2 Apr 2015 10:17AM

Just to add, if the foundation/core want to host the entire server that Diaspora Forum is running on I'll happily transfer that too.

I don't mind who hosts / owns / runs it, so long as it's not Google :)

JS

Juan Santiago Thu 2 Apr 2015 4:14PM

@dennisschubert

without google account, you can not make full use of googlegroups, you can only access via mail but not via web, that way you can not use the full potential.

On the other hand, i,m do not know how to express this
correctly in English, but every time we use products evil corporations put some money in their bank accounts, "make them fat broth. What about you do you fancy? My no.

Sorry about may English.

JR

Jason Robinson Thu 2 Apr 2015 9:51PM

@juansantiago

without google account, you can not make full use of googlegroups, you can only access via mail but not via web, that way you can not use the full potential.

That is completely untrue. I just viewed diaspora-dev list in private browsing without logging in.

but every time we use products evil corporations put some money in their bank accounts

I'm pretty sure more money is put into "evil corporation" accounts by hosting a Discourse forum than using Google lists. Probably better for the environment as well having all things centralized. Actually, Google probably gets more money from Rich paying for a server than us hosting mailing lists at Google.

"Evil Google"... really people..

Personally I agree totally with all the comments relating to keeping Google lists. But this isn't a rational vote - it is complete politics which is why personally I'm abstaining. I will however vote strongly against any kind of migration, be it to Discourse or any other system. Subscription should always be opt-in - we're the ones who are supposed to be privacy conscious ;)

As for what to replace Google lists with, if we do that, I think Discourse is a very good solution. Old school mailing lists are pretty sucky, which is why I've fancied Google Groups before. Discourse takes it a little bit further towards a forum.

SVB

Steffen van Bergerem Thu 2 Apr 2015 10:30PM

@praveenarimbrathod

If we don’t trust our own community core members how can we continue as project?

I never said that I don't trust @rich1. I just don't think that a single person should be responsible for something crucial like a mailing list. I also still think that if we run our own mailing list it should run under the diasporafoundation.org domain.

Apart from all the things that I see as a requirement for a self hosted mailing list:

I think we should only move our mailing lists somewhere else if we have REALLY good reasons to do that.

G

goob Fri 3 Apr 2015 1:59PM

I've been persuaded that:

  1. Diaspora should only move its mailing list once;
  2. that when it is moved it should be under the diasporafoundation.org domain.

Therefore, although I appreciate Rich's kind offer and would certainly think he's trustworthy, I don't think we should move the list from its current home until 2. can be fulfilled.

F

Flaburgan Sat 4 Apr 2015 6:13PM

We need to have control on the mailing list

I agree with that. Rich also agrees. In fact, I saw nobody standing up against that. I'm also sure we can create "forum.diasporafoundation.org" and point it to Rich server, where we'll have access. Backup can be stored on Dennis servers, so I'm sure the foundation (= core team) can have full control of the tool.

We have a lot of users there, we risk to loose them if we change our tools.

We have to be honest here: nobody uses these lists. Active contributors don't use them to contribute. Podmins don't use them to ask for support. The only messages we had there for years are written by persons who don't know the project. And we had like what? 20 messages in a year?

If this tool is not used, it is because most of us don't want to use it. We now have a nice Discourse. It would be a shame to not use it.

I can come with a compromise: we don't have to drop google groups immediately. We can also promote both tool officially. But I'm sure using Discourse to give support is an excellent idea and it would be a great way for non-technical people to contribute: answering each other questions, being moderators...

DU

[deactivated account] Sun 5 Apr 2015 7:40AM

Another option, let the foundation host the forum and mailing list on their server(s)?

That way they have full control over everything and Google have control over nothing.

And @steffenvanbergerem re this:

I just don’t think that a single person should be responsible for something crucial like a mailing list.

Mailing list? Crucial? Yeah, ok :)

But it's cool for one person to be responsible for an entire pod which has hundreds of thousands of users, right? :)

(I'm only guessing how many users some large pods have, I suspect it's way more than that)

DU

[deactivated account] Sun 5 Apr 2015 7:47AM

Just to be really clear (again), I don't think anyone cares who hosts it. We're all pretty much agreed that it shouldn't be Google :+1:

JR

Jason Robinson Sun 5 Apr 2015 12:18PM

If we do start using diasporaforum.org I'd prefer to keep it as it is, since @rich1 is doing a good job about it. Just have backups be automated to be stored also on some other core contrib server, just in case Rich disappears ;) Also, pointing forum.diasporafoundation.org towards diasporaforum as a redirect would be a good idea.

Otherwise no point in making a big fuss about it. Hardly no one uses the current lists. Actually more people write on the forum already ;)

PC

Pablo Cúbico Tue 7 Apr 2015 5:12AM

With the measures pointed out by Jason, I think its ok to ditch the lists.

As for the Google or not Google discussion, I saw the Google Street View car taking pictures of my front door and creeped me out completely, so I decided to gradually move out of Google products and advise everyone to do the same.

So, I advice you to do the same. It may be stupid but I cant help to profoundly dislike that name.

DU

[deactivated account] Tue 7 Apr 2015 8:07PM

@dennisschubert Would you be willing / able to host either 1) a Discourse instance on the foundation domain name on to which you could then host the mailing list, away from Google or 2) host the entire diasporaforum.org site on to which you could then host the mailing list, away from Google?

Please point me in the direction of the right person to ask re foundation hosting if it's not you :)

JR

Jason Robinson Wed 8 Apr 2015 7:45PM

I'm not sure bundling everything to one person is good community project infrastructure either ;)

DU

[deactivated account] Wed 8 Apr 2015 8:13PM

Maybe I've misunderstood :/

Is @dennisschubert not responsible for hosting the foundation stuff?

Dunno...

Just trying to mitigate disagreeing votes and explore other options to keep everyone happy :)

DS

Dennis Schubert Thu 9 Apr 2015 12:28AM

@jasonrobinson actually Florian, Jonne and Steffen have access to that server. So not really bundling everything to one person. ;)

I don't see a reason to host it on the diasporafoundation.org server, though. Like with Google, I'm sure Rich will give us a notice and some time to migrate if he decides to kill it. The current domain is fine and I see no reason to change it.

I cold set it up on the diasporafoundation.org servers, if required. Also I could add a redirecting subdomain, like forum.diasporafoundation.org, if needed, but I think it's fine to keep diasporaforum.org as the formums main address?

DU

[deactivated account] Sun 12 Apr 2015 7:58PM

I think it’s fine to keep diasporaforum.org as the formums main address?

Assuming we do drop Google Groups eventually, what does everyone think about using diasporaforum.org as the domain name for the mailing list?

In other words, back to my very first post on this thread:

and I propose we drop all the existing Google Groups completely and replace each group/list with the mailing list functionality that is supported by the community-run Diaspora Forum

So for example, one of the mailing list addresses would be somecategory@diasporaforum.org

Would this be acceptable to most people (not forgetting we're currently using a Google domain) or would we all prefer the mailing list was something@lists.diasporafoundation.org for example?

DU

[deactivated account] Tue 14 Apr 2015 1:57PM

Hardly no one uses the current lists. Actually more people write on the forum already ;)

This is very true.

Perhaps we should just drop the mailing lists completely? (and do away with Google at the same time)

F

Flaburgan Mon 20 Apr 2015 9:07PM

Backup on the diasporafoundation.org server + access to Rich server (if this is fine with you) and we're good imo, no need to do anything else at the moment.

FS

Florian Staudacher Sat 25 Apr 2015 2:20PM

I think we can migrate away from google, but I don't think it's necessary.
So, do whatever you feel is best ;)

S

Poll Created Mon 4 May 2015 10:59AM

Creating a FLO social networking platform as umbrella for all FLO projects Closed Tue 12 May 2015 10:07AM

Hello guys,

Regarding our discussion about the Google mailing list of Diaspora, I see a bit more general problem - the discussion groups in every FLO project are dispersed, with old fashioned infrastructure. Also they are often running on some 3-rd party servers under 3-rd party's TOS, which could be changed not always in our favor.

What I'd propose is creating a social network for the members of the entire FLO community, so we could exchange more resources with each other, share more experience, attract more geeks to join us and organize more discussions.

We could use infrastructure based on BuddyPress, Oxwall or any FLO social networking platform we choose: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_social_networking_software

This way we could:
- promote even more the FLO software
- achieve maximum interaction and knowledge-sharing with minimum efforts
- attract easy another like minded people to join
- organize discussions in groups
- manage our notifications
- easily share, comment, 'like' and PM the people
- discuss ethical ways to support/generate revenue from a FLO social network
- capitalize more over the size of our network
- organize job boards attracting people like us
- experiment with the TCO(total cost of ownership), functional extensions, community brainstorming

We can have 'the geeky version of Facebook'.
I have a domain - ctrlalt.de which we could use for this.

I've spoken with the Umbrella GNU community and if you'd like to, you could join our discussion on umbrella@lists.headstrong.de. They are members of FSF. They generally are okay with the idea.

I plan to write to prof. Jeff Sayre also:http://jeffsayre.com/2010/02/24/a-flock-of-twitters-decentralized-semantic-microblogging/#decent , as I see he has some similar ideas to my ideas, discussed in a previous thread here.

What do you think about the idea?

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 0.0% 0  
Abstain 25.0% 1 KS
Disagree 25.0% 1 J
Block 50.0% 2 JH JS
Undecided 0% 261 BK ST FS MS TS AA S CB HF BO DM GC JH JR F RF M EG G AX PC PP BB LP T DY SH DU H M RF R DM P DS EP E S AS MK R JD PP F PA SK A G TT J NV N CB BC T RD O MS M RS- TM IS D MZ TM MB PG IGM M EK JS AL MS R OU KM DS W MS P S JL N AKS SJ RD A N KAK V A B S JB DC S S V PS AA C S MP GL DU VM E EA P DO DN FO TB JB L EM MM C LS MS MM HSB AMQ DU VK D AV FL Y JD A AT S AM MDB M FS MM RV HL GK DU DV E E TA T R L T SP RF CM DE D M DU DL MJS J JHI E ED CC G J DU MS F NR B Y JM DS SA MN SM LM CG A FF CK H L A KS RD M ATA UV N EL AC K AM KM RM H C MF AI AG TRA CJC S DU SC TM FT M GS DV BS LR HS S MS DA CA AF AS A MN T AR S GZ BJ AP J C TW HC T MK MC T MS R F EAP JB JD VP FC TT SD SS HE JM NL AA ASM A TJ M GZ C S CK

4 of 265 people have voted (1%)

JH

Jonne Haß
Block
Mon 4 May 2015 11:53AM

You seem to have mistaken the proposal button for the comment button or the create a discussion button. Your proposal concludes with "What do you think about the idea?", with no clear action points on what anybody voting on this would commit to.

JS

Juan Santiago
Block
Mon 4 May 2015 2:33PM

¿Y luego crearás una red social para tratar los temas de esa segunda red social?

S

smdm Mon 4 May 2015 3:37PM

@jhass No, I haven't. I posted it here, as it's a related discussion and my point is to solve the entire problem, not just parts of it. If we move from one old fashioned format to another one, we will have to abandon it sooner or later and migrate and discuss it again. The same is with the 3-rd party solutions over which TOS we don't have control.
If my proposal is accepted, I could use it to show it to FSF and any such interested 3-rd parties.

@juansantiago I hope I understand you correctly using Google Translate - we won't need to migrate again to another system. The social networking solutions, based on FLO license will allow us to elect our TOS and extend the system in the way we want to. It's the most modern trend in the project management and community management. As a performance, it beats everything we have.
Without a 'lab for all geeks' we are dispersed and we lose a lot.

ST

Sean Tilley Thu 7 May 2015 2:07AM

What exactly does FLO stand for?

S

smdm Thu 7 May 2015 8:07AM

@deadsuperhero FLO means Free, Libre, Open Source