Loomio
December 11th, 2018 10:53

The UN Migration Pact - Should NZ sign to the principals in the document.

Daymond Goulder-Horobin
Daymond Goulder-Horobin Public Seen by 255

I have heard many sides to this particular debacle and am interested in forming an official position on this topic, this would allow me to go to certain parties and advocate for whatever position the membership favors.

Personally, I am not big on seeking approval on our policies from international entities in general. I would rather not have to worry about committing to something regardless of whether it is binding or non-binding and would rather set our own standards and codes for migration policy. However, this is something to consider.

I have read the original document which I will link to. A lot of it seems O.K on the whole. However, like a Terms & Conditions, we should agree with absolutely every single thing before signing. And even then we would want some room to breathe if we could.

I can't say that I have done a lot of research on the pact. However, some problems have been identified. In particular, our freedom to dissect and critically analyze migration policy seems to have come under fire to some extent, feel free to correct me on this but it is from what I have seen.

Will add more tommorrow.

Document
https://refugeesmigrants.un.org/sites/default/files/180713_agreed_outcome_global_compact_for_migration.pdf

Daymond Goulder-Horobin

Daymond Goulder-Horobin started a poll December 11th, 2018 22:20

Should NZ sign the UN Migration Pact document Closed 11:03pm - Monday 17 Dec 2018

Outcome
by Daymond Goulder-Horobin December 17th, 2018 21:17

I put this as a question of why rather than why not in terms of signing the agreement, despite it being non-binding as people have pointed out. There is too much disagreement among ourselves and the wider community to consider signing this pact. As a result the Party will recommend to not sign the agreement at this stage.

This will be used to Gauge our party position on this topic.

2 - No
4 - Yes
Daymond Goulder-Horobin

Daymond Goulder-Horobin December 11th, 2018 22:21

Short notice, given the deadline for signing.

Daymond Goulder-Horobin

Daymond Goulder-Horobin December 11th, 2018 22:43

No

Don't want to be held to anything, I feel like we need to agree on everything to sign, even one thing and its like a terms and conditions document.

Mason Bee

Mason Bee December 12th, 2018 07:22

No. It's badly written, refers to to many other documents, and is about migration. We have had years of migration leading to massive imbalances in this country. If it talked about refugees, then yes, that is something the we should be advocating for more of.

In general I am in favour of the UN. This is not one of those times.

GA

Geoff Anderson December 12th, 2018 20:11

The UN has no ones best interests at heart but its own.
Refugees are mostly the result of warmongering & economic sanctions by UN nation members.
In New Zealand no one will benefit but the already rich.
Spreading New Zealand's limited resources among more people means that most of us will get less.
Our power infrastructure, housing, schooling, roads, medical system and culture will stress & break.
How can I be so certain? Well its happened everywhere else that has gone along with it.

Calling it “a source of prosperity, innovation and sustainable development in our globalized world” is just rhetoric. Claiming it is the “product of an unprecedented review of evidence and data gathered during an open, transparent and inclusive process” as a fancy way of saying, this will screw you.
On behalf of New Zealanders please spit in the eye of those pushing it.

Sorry I’m not normally so radical about such topics, but anyone who has watched this go down around the world knows the reality.

GA

Geoff Anderson December 12th, 2018 20:37

No

This global agenda destroys everywhere it has happened

Daymond Goulder-Horobin

Daymond Goulder-Horobin December 13th, 2018 04:05

I've always had support for the U.N, especially in regards to Human Rights re: Assange and Dotcom. Not this time.

Stephen Dickson

Stephen Dickson December 13th, 2018 05:17

No

All immigration should be stopped completely until the country catches up on housing and services etc

Mason Bee

Mason Bee December 14th, 2018 04:58

No
Graham Bull

Graham Bull December 14th, 2018 09:51

Yes
Daymond Goulder-Horobin

Daymond Goulder-Horobin December 14th, 2018 22:19

I have extended to the end of the Internet Party AGM

Jo Booth

Jo Booth December 14th, 2018 23:47

Yes

I think NZ needs to adhere to the basics of the global community - and while the UN is a bit hit and miss, this is "non-legally binding, cooperative framework" and we should at least head in that direction.

Personally I've seen greater vibrancy in my local community with immigrants and I enjoy the diversity that comes from "importing" other ways of thinking about society.

So in balance I say yes, look at it.. see if we can make it fit.

Daymond Goulder-Horobin

Daymond Goulder-Horobin December 15th, 2018 00:04

I actually want some clarification as to what Non-legally binding means before signing as well.

Like would we still be pressured into making a policy change based on the agreement? We would not be legally accountable but would our standing in the UN be penalized another way or something. The wording of the Document is also quite absolute in some sentences.

GA

Geoff Anderson December 15th, 2018 01:47

For Jo Booth; Yes I also enjoy the enrichment from other cultures, but that is not really what the 'UN migration compact' is about.
There’s a link to it (above) for a proper read, but it goes way further.
It redefines hate speech to include any dissenting voices against surplus immigration.
It takes away our countries right to say enough is enough.
Actually it is an anti sovereignty document.
New Zealand's greatest asset is our low population.
Our infrastructure is based upon our population. Recent times have already swollen the population by a chunk and has resulted in all sorts of stresses coming onto our communities.
This pack would open the flood gates and damage us.
This isn’t about bigotry or anything so shallow, don’t be fooled by the pretty words.
If you are looking for video summaries to see what its about may I suggest these 2 titles:
Janice Atkinson What's REALLY in the UN Migrant Compact Jack Buckby
& UN Migration Pact Europe & Ireland
Sorry I don’t have the ULRs but they can be found on you-tube

Daymond Goulder-Horobin

Daymond Goulder-Horobin December 17th, 2018 00:55

I will infer that this is not necessarily a debate on how we should handle our migration policy but rather whether we should let a pact influence how we conduct our own policy.

At a minimum, I believe New Zealand requires more time to assess and debate the decision to sign the pact as it has only recently come into the public domain at the level it is at. Thus it should be delayed until further considerations of the impacts and implications of signing it would have.

I feel the non-binding factor is someone immaterial. We should still sign with the assertion that we agree with everything in the documentation rather than rely on it not being legally binding should we change our minds later. If we don't agree on even one word then we do not sign. Otherwise, it would be in bad faith.