Loomio
Wed 2 May 2018 2:56PM

Proposal to take over a Mastodon hosting service, hosting external instances, but also to enable the creation of thematic sister coop-instances

MDB Mayel de Borniol Public Seen by 415

I've been put in touch with Alice, who runs the Mastodon hosting service https://maastodon.net (currently hosting 38 instances with 171,652 accounts, including the mothership instance https://mastodon.social) and wants to either find a way to share the workload, or transfer it to another person/group.

Of course, I suggested turning it into a co-op! And here's what she replied (and said I could share here to see if we might be interested):

> I really like that model and can only wish MaaS becomes a coop.

> Financially, the service is slightly profitable, the income over the previous two months was 182€ and 293€. The current servers cost 175€/month (209€ with taxes, it could be lowered with some changes)

> Technically, it works okay but require constant attention (mostly for mastodon.social's traffic bursts).
> It has some custom software that'd I'd be happy to continue working on, in a less pressured context, and see open-source. (i can't guarantee my time without a remuneration, but i would help the migration in any case). It's all already highly automated, including billing and instance setup. Given the right resources and maintenance/scaling it doesn't require much intervention except answering support tickets.

> My main issue with it is that i can't healthily handle such pressure alone, i just feel more and more crushed by a thing that's visibly too heavy.

I think that while Alice might not have the energy to start up a co-op from scratch, she would probably be happy to transfer it to us (we'd give her something as a payout) and become a member of social.coop instead where she could be part of the soon-to-exist Tech Ops team.

It seems to me that this ties in perfectly with our bigger vision for social.coop from the beginning (creating a model for user-controlled social platforms, to then inspire/help others do the same). And now that we've reached 1000 members, the question of scaling is relevant, and I personally think horizontal scaling is preferable (for both technical and social reasons).

We could use a similar model as Q&A service StackExchange for creating new communities (see http://area51.stackexchange.com/faq) which could result in sister instances like art.social.coop, science.social.coop, or even aww.social rather than sticking with one increasingly noisy and general instance.

As for the external instances already hosted by Alice: https://maastodon.net/instances/ they could be a secondary source of funds for social.coop which would help remunerate the ever-more-needed Tech Ops team. Of course, we could then prod the instance admins to see about turning them into #platformcoops (or becoming sister instances of social.coop just like the hypothetical aww.social) Imagine announcing that mastodon.social is now a #platformcoop! It's no #BuyTwitter but still pretty cool :wink:

Another option, in case the whole social.coop collective doesn't want to take this on, woud be to create a small worker-coop to manage maastodon.net and possibly "outsource' the hosting/maintenance of social.coop to that coop.

I'm keen to hear what people think, especially those members for which this would mean extra labour (even though the beauty here is collectivisation of effort, it might be 2x more work to maintain 10 instances compared to 1, not 10x), and so will wait for some feedback before starting any polls.

ST

Sam Toland Wed 2 May 2018 7:01PM

You took the words out of my mouth. +1 to this.

AW

Aaron Wagener Thu 3 May 2018 5:26PM

I like the idea of social.coop "seeding" a new shared services cooperative to take on hosting. Starting a coop sounds like it could provide the right environment to solve the questions of how to pay people, make the decisions we have to make, and things like that. It would also mean that social.coop could spread the cooperative model, and participate democratically in decisions about the server, without centralizing power too much by taking over the servers of a bunch of other instances for itself.

JR

Jeremy Rose Sat 5 May 2018 2:17AM

I'm not a huge fan of the idea that a service can be owned by other services—I think the owners of any collective formed should be the humans running and/or using it.

MC

Matthew Cropp Mon 7 May 2018 2:06AM

Federations have one set of problems (alienation inherent to layered representative democracy), co-ops with beyond-human-scale memberships participating in mass democracy have a different set of governance challenges.

One approach might be to require instances hosted instances above a certain size (say, 1k members) to be run in alignment with the Cooperative Principles? So ownership and control of the network ultimately is structurally rooted in a broad base of people?

MDB

Mayel de Borniol Wed 2 May 2018 4:41PM

Welcome to @alice133 who is now on here! Would love to here your thoughts on the conversation, and please let us know if/when we can have a call or some other form of chat soon.

DU

Alice Wed 2 May 2018 4:52PM

I like what I've seen so far, it finally looks like a good future for MaaStodon.

MDB

Poll Created Wed 2 May 2018 5:12PM

A chat with Alice about MaaStodon Closed Fri 4 May 2018 10:39AM

Outcome
by Mayel de Borniol Fri 4 May 2018 10:44AM

Choosing Tuesday becomes it's one of the days that got most RSVPs (15 people) and key participants like @victormatekole can make it

I suggest we have a real time chat over text so more people can participate in the conversation and to help ease any language barriers, device/bandwidth limitations, etc. We could use our Matrix channel: https://riot.im/app/#/room/#SocialCoop:matrix.org

Results

UTC Votes MDB MN MC DM NP EM ST R MK DU TB G DU NS AW DVN CW
Fri  4 May 2018  5:00PM
8
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Sat  5 May 2018  5:00PM
10
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Sun  6 May 2018  5:00PM
11
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Mon  7 May 2018  5:00PM
12
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Tue  8 May 2018  5:00PM
11
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Thu  3 May 2018  5:00PM
7
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

18 of 93 people have participated (19%)

ST

Sam Toland Wed 2 May 2018 7:03PM

I'm not participating at this level of detail - but as an ordinary social.coop member, this is really interesting development! :) Good vibes sent your way. ;)

G

Graham Thu 3 May 2018 9:01AM

I'm with @samtoland on this one - I don't think I can usefully add value as a relative noob here. All I would say is be sure to do the due diligence stuff, whatever emerges.

DU

Deleted User Thu 3 May 2018 1:41PM

Mon 7 May 2018 5:00PM
Thu 3 May 2018 5:00PM

I don't see myself as essential, but happy to be involved if the timing coincides.

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