Loomio

Cycle 2 Anchor

RH Ronen Hirsch Public Seen by 11

This thread is an anchor for the liminal space between cycle 1 and cycle 2 and for cycle 2 itself.

AR

Alex Rodriguez Wed 12 Aug 2020 1:36PM

Hi friends! Did @Josh Fairhead share a link to the Discord server somewhere and I missed it? If not, thanks Josh for doing that when you have a moment!

JF

Josh Fairhead Wed 12 Aug 2020 1:58PM

It was shared once way back but I never posted it publicly post reflection call, the permissions are minimal so please adapt it however you like: https://discord.gg/NSHGbvu

TB

Toni Blanco Mon 17 Aug 2020 8:13AM

Hey, I sent to you guys an email with a bunch of files and links that probably will end up in your spam folder, please check it out :-)

JF

Josh Fairhead Thu 20 Aug 2020 3:45PM

I've updated the Discord link, we have a new server now ;)

RH

Ronen Hirsch Sun 30 Aug 2020 7:50AM

We've had good weather so I am getting to cycle 2 later then I intended. But a background mental process is very much alive and maturing. I have started to see a parallel dynamic between the direct challenge we took on (cohesion of people) into the challenge of cycle 2 which seemed to arrive indirectly - cohesion of ideas.

My original intention was to offer an initial generative sequence for "cohesion of people" but I am now realizing that to get there we need a generative sequence for "cohesion of ideas" ... and I do sense some clarity on that.

I would like BOTH of these generative processes to be held by our collaborative process. We need the "cohesion of ideas" in order to create a "cohesion of people" ... and by doing so I expect that working on "cohesion of people" will help to refine "cohesion of ideas".

With that in mind, I offer this fundamental process from Christopher Alexander (Nature of Order book 2, page 216) as an initial reflection and foundation of what is to come.

The Fundamental Differentiating Process

  1. At any given moment in a process, we have a certain partially evolved state of a structure. This state is described by the wholeness: the system of centers, and their relative nesting and degrees of life.

  2. We pay attention as profoundly as possible to this WHOLENESS – its global, large-scale order, both actual and latent.

  3. We try to identify the sense in which this structure is weakest as a whole, weakest in its coherence as a whole, most deeply lacking in feeling.

  4. We look for the latent centers in the whole. These are not those centers which are robust and exist strongly already; rather they are centers which are dimly present in a weak form, but which seem to us to contribute to or cause the current absence of life in the whole.

  5. We then choose one of these latent centers to work on. It may be a large center, or middle-sized, or small.

  6. We use one or more of the fifteen structure-preserving transformations, singly or in combination, to differentiate and strengthen the structure in its wholeness.

  7. As a result of the differentiation which occurs, new centers are born. The extent of the fifteen properties which accompany creation of new centers will also take place.

  8. In particular we shall have increased the strength of parallel centers; and we shall also have increased the strength of smaller centers. As a whole, the structure will now, as a result of this differentiation, be stronger and have more coherence and definition as a living structure.

  9. We test to make sure that this is actually so, and that the presumed increase of life has actually taken place.

  10. We also test that what we have done is the simplest differentiation possible, to accomplish this goal in respect of the center that is under development.

  11. When complete, we go back to the beginning of this cycle, and apply the same process again.

...today I hope to stand ON the roof for the first time :)

TB

Toni Blanco Fri 11 Sep 2020 4:35PM

Congrats on the roof achievement! Since I was reading the book (thanks for the lead, Ronen), I gave a thought already about this process. And I have the intuition that the dialectic centers-wholeness is key and I rely on your experience as a long time practitioner.

RH

Ronen Hirsch Sun 30 Aug 2020 7:59AM

I also have this echo from the ending of the 1st cycle which I did not get around to mentioning ... I recognized that I am carrying these subtle assumptions (which can mature into unspoken expectations) ... and so I would like to make explicit here:

  1. I am depending on all three of you @Josh Fairhead @Alex Rodriguez and @Toni Blanco to keep us aligned with the real world of communities as you experience it. I feel comfortable, giving my remoteness, representing the story of "remote microsolidarity" however, because I am not involved in communities I question any ideas I may have about them ... so I am relying on you to superimpose whatever we discuss and create on to the communal realities in which you do have direct experience ... and to provide feedback into the process ... not just your personal feedback but also feedback as representatives of the communities you are involved in.

  2. I am making an effort to set aside any considerations of actual implementation of our ideas. In the past I've had to shoulder the effort of actually making things I've wanted to see in the world (from concrete physical structures to abstract software). This time I do not intend to do that. That leaves me with a question: how are we going to make anything actually happen? ... and I am living with an answer: I don't know!... and trying to remain free to describe what is needed within this "not knowing how WE can make it happen".

  3. With that said, if it does come to it ... and we more people and more skills to "make something happen" ... I am again counting on your communal reach to spread the word and reach others.

I am curious to hear how these assumptions/expectations meet you :)

JF

Josh Fairhead Fri 11 Sep 2020 4:21PM

Ciao Ronen, awesome your having good weather for the roof building thanks for the Christopher Alexander pattern (differentiating process). It reminds me a fair bit of the lyrics relating to structure in King Crimsons "Indiscipline", feels of the same spirit at least ;)

Much agree that "cohesion of people" is by and large cyclical with the "cohesion of ideas". The former is people and the latter is culture, both topics I'm super interested in and reciprocal centres of wholeness in themselves! Man, I find identity such an odd phenomena... and then, within that, culture as a collective identity an even weirder and more interesting discussion!

So responding to your second post, from a community perspective culture might just be considered a collection of ideas. Many of the communities I'm a part of openly use narrative to their advantage as a coordination mechanism, useful memes that help create coherence in the collective ideology. A question that arises at this point is "what are our pragmatic beliefs, and what can we let go of?" because as singular parts it effects our collective whole...

Re implementation of ideas we talk about I'm kinda in the same place and don't know how much will happen but I'm inclined to think that memetic Osmosis might do the job, so lets see what the constructivist approach brings for now :p

On communal reach, sure I'm always happy to connect dots but would also say that a big part of network organising and getting things done is direct personal connection! On that note if you'd like to meet a few people from a smattering of communities, were self-organising an unconference for Autumn Equinox. Same goes for @Alex Rodriguez and @Toni Blanco - I'll send you all an invite soon over on Discord

TB

Toni Blanco Fri 11 Sep 2020 4:50PM

Regarding #1: absolutely. I try always to ground anything in my experience, or at least be coherent with it. I will also probably ask for feedback on our work in my communities.

Regarding #2: I do not have right now in mind a particular future implementation. Not anxious/concerned about it, because our work is so relevant to many spheres of my life, and even more because of the pandemic effects, that I think that they just will flow naturally.

Regarding #3: again: absolutely. This is how I like to work.

RH

Ronen Hirsch Mon 14 Sep 2020 3:55PM

Meta-Generative Process

I've started this document on a meta-process for collaborating remotely on ... well ... creating a generative process!

The document is here: https://demo.codimd.org/M4BCURgHSoWe-WBBlZVj3g#

If you login to Codimd you should be able to also edit it ... however I would ask that for now, you don't!

I am looking forward to discussing it. This can be a light conversation (responding to this comment) or a more focused and dedicated conversation (in which case I would suggest starting a new thread) dedicated to this conversation.

I intend to follow it up with (as described in it) an implementation document for us to use.

Looking forward to your feedback and ideas about how to relate to it :)

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