Loomio
Wed 1 Aug 2018

Turning Externalities into Internalities

BH
Bob Haugen Public Seen by 398

This topic was suggested by @michelbauwens1 in this comment in the Introductions thread. I thought it was worth a thread of its own.

I copied the text from that comment here, unfortunately losing some of the formatting, but the meaning should be clear.

Title: Turning Externalities into Internalities

Subtitle: Is it possible to produce for human needs without externalities

Chapter 1: Introduction and Context

The emergence of post-subordinate autonomous workers: the role of labor mutuals and platform cooperatives in the commons economy (the blockchain economy as a tool for contributory cognitive labor)

** crypto economy as a re-balancing of power between labor and capital

** crypto economy as network-dominant economy beyond corporate and state power

** role of labour mutuals

Value in the Commons: a summary of previous findings (value sovereignty, transvestment stragegies, reverse cooptation of capital for the commons)

Evaluating the Emergence of the Crypto Economy from the point of view of the commons (mobilizing competency networks for common goals; towards commons-based DAO’s ?) so

** critique of market totalitarianism (leviathan, hobbes and gaia)

** crypto as sovereignity of the corporate class vs sovereignty of civil society (need to disentangle both) (five scenario’s of manski)

** distinguishing distrlbuted ledgers from the blockchain (explain ledgers and DLT’s), also in relation to trust

** rebalancing capital and labor for cognitive production: learning from the token economy

** transforming the token economy for the commons (in detail, what the shift entails, f.e. From competitive to cooperative games, from smart contracts, to ostrom contracts)

** two kinds of economics (Polany’s distinction)

** scaling trust (big brother to little brother)

** from govt and corporate, third party coordination to autonomous network coordination

The Role of Accounting in the Shift towards the Peer Production of Everything (accounting as mediation with the physical, bringing stigmergy to material production through open and shared supply chains, )
** history of ledgers ?

** explain 3 layer model

** explain functional governance transition

** local vs global (example from city graph 3.6)

Solving the Problem of Externalities: towards an externalities-free mode of production ? (how can externalities be normalized as internalities in predistributive social distribution and regenerative ecological production)
Chapter 2: Evolutions in Accounting

Accounting for contributions (positive social)
** predistribution within commons

** basic income in society

Maintaining acceptable social distribution, i.e. relative equality in the distribution of value (negative social)
** from redistribution to predistribution

** acceptable inequalities

** learning from the past (hunter-gatherers, ancient democracies, medieval communes)

Respecting the Doughnut (negative ecological): how to stay within planetary boundaries while providing for human needs

Thermo-dynamic Accounting or: biophysical accountability (positive ecological): accessing thermo-dynamic flows in open and shared supply chains

Chapter 3: The Emerging toolbox

Supply chain projects: Provenance, Oxchain, Open Motors, Wikifactory, Envianta ?

Distributed ledgers Holochain): going beyond extractive blockchains

** distributed ledgers as the open and shared supply chains

** tokens for valuing non-mercantile value

** generative finance: social and ecological

Ostrom Contracts ? (David Dao): smart contracts for commons-based DAOs

REA Accounting for Eco-systems (from corporate to ecosystemic open and shared supply chains)

Ethical current-sees? Monitoring flows and rewarding contributions: The Economic Space Agency: mutualizing investment, risk-taking and speculation (commons-based derivatives for financing future common production), Faircoin/Commoncoin + learning from labor allocation in intentional communities (Allen Butcher’s work)

Tokens for Regenerativity (Regen’’s Ecological State Protocols; circular financing of regenerative practices)

Impact Accounting through the Common Good Economy

Global Thresholds and Allocations for biophysical accountability (the Reporting 3.0 framework)

Large scale governance (Daostack’s holographic governance)

Designing Cooperative games instead of competitive games (RChain) ?

DAO’s for natural agents: the Terra0 project for augmented forests

? Trustlines Network ?

BH

Bob Haugen Wed 1 Aug 2018

This is the kind of topic that some of us think OAE was created for: software for transforming the economic system toward cooperation between all living things and their ecosystems. not just people.

As Michel mentioned, a lot of projects are working on parts of this complex problem. Will they remain isolated from each other? Or can they all meet and evolve together, taking the best ideas from each initiative, and become a replacement for extractive capitalism?

A suite of open apps that can all work together and adapt to different infrastructures might help, although the critical component is people on the ground organizing themselves..

@lynnfoster @ivan116 @luandrovieira @tiborkatelbach @mayel @ahdinosaur and I (and others who are not present in the OAE Loomio group) have been working on such a suite of apps since the start of this group 4 years ago. (It moves slowly and intermittently.)

I recently started to sketch out the full suite of required apps in the ValueFlows github group. Here is an overview. It's just a start, I expect other people here have started similar outlines. I'm focusing on apps for P2P economic networks to start with.

@tiborkatelbach and Communecter have started something similar, which we want to collaborate with, in their Pixel Humain group, for example, http://co.tools/ .

@jimwhitescarver and https://diglife.com/social-ledger/ have another approach to suites of cooperative software. As do some of the other newer OAE participants. Some of those approaches offer suites of existing open-source apps that were not originally created to be parts of suites and put some connecting tissue around them. That might be another way to evolve all of the projects Michel listed into a cooperative whole. Or probably both of those directions (creating apps meant to cooperate with each other, and putting cooperative frameworks around existing apps) can help each other.

I'm sure other people here can extend this set of ideas. And I am sure I forgot to mention people who should have been mentioned. Please forgive me and add yourself and your related work below.

BH

Bob Haugen Wed 1 Aug 2018

In related news, today is Earth Overshoot Day.

M

mike_hales Thu 2 Aug 2018

Great to have this scheme to think aboit Michel. Strength to your writing arm! I've reposted your TOC here

MB

Michel Bauwens Thu 2 Aug 2018

this is very useful dear Bob,

I think the matter you have been working on, I could be wrong, is the ability for everyone to communicate and organize seamlessly with non-closed tools,

in our project, we want to go one step further, i.e. actually coordinating the production of products and services,

paradoxically, it's the libertarians who are furthest in this, but in their own sometimes a bit twisted ways (if you ask me ), but then, just as we transform the idea of netarchical private platforms in that of platform coops, so we can adapt and tweak ledger technologies to our common(s) needs,

this is what my study this summer addresses,

Michel.

MB

Michel Bauwens Thu 2 Aug 2018

thanks Mike!

BH

Bob Haugen Thu 2 Aug 2018

Goodness! We apparently don't communicate very well. Our main goal is always the coordination of production and distribution of goods and services. All else is chatter.

MB

Michel Bauwens Thu 2 Aug 2018

hmmm . well I don't follow the discussions on open apps very well but it seemed to be about secure scutlebut and related communication software, but I am happy that I was wrong in this impression

BH

Bob Haugen Thu 2 Aug 2018

Where did we go wrong? Where did we lose that thread of the ongoing conversation?
We're looking at three different infrastructures: holochain, ActivityPub, and scuttlebutt, but those are infrastructure for economic coordination, not just chatter.
Although they also carry chatter, and we think the social and economic networks need to be seamlessly integrated, because a lot of the chatter is about economic activities.

BH

Bob Haugen Thu 2 Aug 2018

If you look at the current list of apps-to-be-developed, with more to come, they already include recipes for production and planning for production and distribution.
I'll get into execution of plans next, and then coordination, which requires coordination signals as well as reactive replanning with humans in the loop

MB

Michel Bauwens Thu 2 Aug 2018

yes, this integration makes a lot of sense and is necessary,

MB

Michel Bauwens Thu 2 Aug 2018

can you resend that full list,

perhaps this kind of summary, 'what is being worked on', could be your ideal contribution for our report, since we discussed your contribution ?

BH

Bob Haugen Thu 2 Aug 2018

BH

Bob Haugen Thu 2 Aug 2018

Depending on timing for report, we're working with some other people on implementation plans. One implementation is already underway, but not yet with the planned infrastructures. So then you'd need to think about how much detail you want.

MB

Michel Bauwens Thu 2 Aug 2018

will discuss with alex, my co-writer, he's arriving in chiangmai tomorrow,

Michel

LV

Luandro Vieira Fri 3 Aug 2018

software for transforming the economic system toward cooperation between all living things and their ecosystems. not just people.

I've been searching for such a beautiful definition for a while, thank you @bobhaugen. Amazing synthesis.

M

mike_hales Fri 3 Aug 2018

Just finding my way into OpenApps, pardon me if this is a dumb question . . In @bobhaugen github list of VF-compatible apps I notice CoBudget is not present. I get it that Loomio may be escluded - s social media (?) app, not value system? - but why would CoBudget be absent?

BH

Bob Haugen Fri 3 Aug 2018

Two answers:
1. I am not finished and will list more apps, and
2. CoBudget preceded the OpenApps initiative and while I love it and consider to be part of the picture, am not sure how VF-compatible it is and would want to ask the people who are working on it if they minded it being included in any case.
We try not to make too many rash claims.

MB

Michel Bauwens Sat 4 Aug 2018

not sure again if this is the proper place, but Bob, this is for you ...

first of all, see this article, that shows successfull blockchain trials for supply chains, https://which-50.com/commbank-and-logistics-giants-complete-blockchain-trade-from-regional-victoria-to-germany/?

and what it all means in terms of industrial structures see the article quoted below,

but in fact, I don't think their analysis goes far enough, because in the ethereum networks, corporates are already subsumed to a eco-system consisting not just of companies, but of a multitude of other players, including lots of single individuals:

QUOTE


Blockchain-Based Corporate V-Networks


= "V-form networks consist of a number of fully independent companies that effectively operate as one vertically integrated company through blockchain technology". 1


Contents

[hide ( https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/Blockchain-Based_Corporate_V-Networks# )]


Contextual Citation[edit ( https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/index.php?title=Blockchain-Based_Corporate_V-Networks&action=edit&section=1 )]


"A blockchain economy will have more, smaller firms linked together by protocols. ... It’s worth pointing out that these networks are inherently global, and any regulatory questions global as well."

  • Chris Berg, Sinclair Davidson and Jason Potts 2

Description[edit ( https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/index.php?title=Blockchain-Based_Corporate_V-Networks&action=edit&section=2 )]


"The Nobel laureate Oliver Williamson distinguishes between U-form companies and M-form companies.

Traditional U-form companies are unitary — their units are divided by business process (for instance, accounting, human resources, component manufacturing, assembly) and are not treated as separate cost centres.

M-form companies are multidivisional — their units are self-contained divisions that report profits and losses to an umbrella central body. They’re fully owned by a parent company, but they tend to have their own business services (accounting and human resources departments, for instance) and even market relationships.

But now we see a new corporate form — the V-form network — made possible because thanks to the application of distributed ledger technology to supply chain problems.

These V-form networks consist of a number of fully independent companies that effectively operate as one vertically integrated company through blockchain technology, coordinated and supplied by a third party.

This is a big change to the nature of the firm. We can already see V-form networks in the real world. They date as far back as January. It is surprising the economics community haven’t noticed them yet.

...

Blockchains can work to coordinate supply chains without the need for either (traditional) vertical integration or regulation. The vertical integration is outsourced to a distributed ledger. The blockchain provides the managerial service that coordinates each ‘unit’ (that is, firm) in the supply chain.

Regulators in any country can deal any firm in the supply chain as if it was a small unit of a larger, global company.

Each firm in the supply chain get the benefits of vertical integration through a network rather than a hierarchy.

...

In the V-form network, the blockchain’s token establishes the consortium, and incentivizes cooperative behaviour.

The token also serves to move rents around the network. In this way, the blockchain provides a market mechanism to solve the sort of bargaining problems described by another Nobel laureate, Ronald Coase, that may occur as the network operates.

Outsourced vertical integration could be applied to many industries that are now integrated. Energy firms that currently integrate the exploration, production, generation, and retail of electricity might be better decomposed, with blockchains and tokens taking the place of head offices. The token economy, rather than energy regulators, could make decisions about the distribution of rents around the network." (https://medium.com/cryptoeconomics-australia/outsourcing-vertical-integration-introducing-the-v-form-network-78e1aa93a814)


Example[edit ( https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/index.php?title=Blockchain-Based_Corporate_V-Networks&action=edit&section=3 )]



The IBM and Maersk TradeTech[edit ( https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/index.php?title=Blockchain-Based_Corporate_V-Networks&action=edit&section=4 )]

Chris Berg, Sinclair Davidson and Jason Potts:

"Two weeks into 2018, IBM and the shipping giant Maersk announced a joint venture to develop a digital supply chain management system on their Hyperledger blockchain platform. Hyperledger is a private blockchain which requires permission to access.

In a previous Cryptoeconomics piece, we described how international trade is an information problem. As goods are shipped around the world, they are accompanied by information — really stacks of paperwork — that describe their provenance, destinations, regulatory and tax liabilities and so on.

In the IBM-Maersk system, each firm and bureaucracy in the supply chain — producers, shippers, port authorities, regulators, importers, retailers — will access and update a shared blockchain ledger containing all the information needed by each organisation.

And each organisation would have access to that information everywhere, ensuring complete visibility on where goods are in the world and which economic and regulatory hurdles they next need to overcome." (https://medium.com/cryptoeconomics-australia/outsourcing-vertical-integration-introducing-the-v-form-network-78e1aa93a814)

M

mike_hales Sat 4 Aug 2018

And so . . . it begins

MB

Michel Bauwens Sat 4 Aug 2018

getting good responses from your page already

BH

Bob Haugen Sat 4 Aug 2018

Examples pls? Might help as I continue to list and then describe more apps.
Want to put the apps for coordination of production in the swim explicitly, so other people don't miss that is and has always been our major focus.
It's just that all those other apps are necessary and often precursors.
Want me to keep that P2PF page in sync?

MB

Michel Bauwens Sat 4 Aug 2018

I can't see what this is referring to in terms of examples ?

Alex, our co-researcher has arrived, and we begin working officially this Monday, we will then specify our expectations about your contributions, but essentially it is to describe what you know about the technologies being prepared for effective coordination of production within an ecosystem

BH

Bob Haugen Sat 4 Aug 2018

I can't see what this is referring to in terms of examples ?

I meant,

getting good responses from your page already

Which page did you mean?

Responses can be useful if they tell what people got something out of, vs maybe what they didn't...

BH

Bob Haugen Sat 4 Aug 2018

we will then specify our expectations about your contributions, but essentially it is to describe what you know about the technologies being prepared for effective coordination of production within an ecosystem

As I mentioned, the apps we are specifying will cover more than coordination of production, but I am happy to focus on that aspect for your paper.

MB

Michel Bauwens Sun 5 Aug 2018

yes, I think you / we need to focus on production coordination, in the context of this particular research paper!

MB

Michel Bauwens Fri 10 Aug 2018

the draft of the first 'contextualization' of the study,

is available here for comments and suggestions:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hGzAAv9RRiVP3N7yhCDNPUMTYRbW-bQXJT6D3urVy34/edit#heading=h.wdsr38sud382

JS

Jon Schull Mon 13 Aug 2018

Open the draft for commenting?

MB

Michel Bauwens Mon 13 Aug 2018

the first chapter is done in draft form,

as I don't have your email, try this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1hGzAAv9RRiVP3N7yhCDNPUMTYRbW-bQXJT6D3urVy34/edit#heading=h.wdsr38sud382

if you can't get in, I need to invite you in with your email

VG

Vincenzo Giorgino Mon 13 Aug 2018

Hi Michel,
I would like to add my comments too to this relevant proposal in a couple of weeks if possible. Best, Vincenzo

JS

Jon Schull Mon 13 Aug 2018

Thanks (jschull@e-nable.org)

jschull@e-NABLE.org cell: 585-738-6696 skype:jonschull

Founder,
e-NABLE ( http://e-NABLE.org ): volunteers worldwide making free, 3D printed prosthetics
Innovation Fellow, JMK Innovation Fund ( http://www.jmkfund.org/awardee/jon-schull/ )

M

mike_hales Tue 11 Dec 2018

@michelbauwens1 What's the status of the drafting Michel? Eager to read! Is it tomorrow yet!? ;-)

DS

Danyl Strype Mon 5 Aug 2019

I find it a bit hard to parse the bullet points by @Michel Bauwens , perhaps the formatting really is necessary. But I can think of only two ways to faciliate economic activity using software. One is tools that automate well-defined and predictable processes that need to occur regularly (eg payment gateways), the other is tools that facilitate conversations.

Take a ride-sharing service for example. The software can automate many aspects of a successful ride exchange:

  • identifying my location (with GPS, cell tower triangulation, or allowing me to enter it)

  • accepting my desired destination and plotting an estimated route, travel time, and fee (if it's a commercial exchange).

  • identifying the nearest available driver(s) and asking them if they want a passenger

  • accepting a driver and giving them the location of the passenger, and a route to them

  • accepting input that the passenger has been picked up, and plotting a route to their destination

  • accepting payment (if it's commercial) and ratings (of driver, car etc) from the passenger.

However, there are all sorts of reasons a passenger and driver might need to communicate directly. For example, if the driver wants to confirm the passenger's destination, or ask which side of the road they're waiting on, or what they look like etc. So ideally, the ride-sharing app would also include a chat facility. Once a driver has accepted a passenger, the app could allow them to send text messages to each other (ideally with built-in translation in case they don't have a common language), or call each other, without any need to share phone numbers etc with each other (for privacy).

An Uber style app would try to automate everything, using proprietary software (although often built out of non-copyleft free code components), and not allow users to communicate, so that the maximum amount of data can be farmed out of the interaction. An open source approach would develop as many of these functions as possible as modular components (or use existing ones). It would not only facilitate human communication between driver and passenger during an exchange, but it would include facilities for regular communication and community-building among drivers, and maybe regular passengers too.

My point is "chatter" is as essential to democratic economic networks as it is superfluous and threatening to technocratic ones. Also, that when people are testing bleeding edge communication technology (or just being playful) they will post cat pictures and fart jokes. But the value of the tech, or communication in general, can't be judged on those uses.

BH

Bob Haugen Mon 5 Aug 2019

"chatter" is as essential to democratic economic networks as it is superfluous and threatening to technocratic ones

We agree, and think that we need a combination of social and economic networks. See https://cryptpad.fr/pad/#/2/pad/view/64P7o1b-7n8WCppvlhlHoC6xqs6TYqgfuQsE7rrMxn8/

But we disagree on

One is tools that automate well-defined and predictable processes that need to occur regularly (eg payment gateways), the other is tools that facilitate conversations.

We think they need to be combined. Conversations can develop and organize economic interactions (which need to go way beyond payment gateways; we can create economic networks that don't need money at all, altho we have not much done it yet) which can then be surrounded by more conversations about what happened, how it all worked, what we should do next time, etc.

MB

Michel Bauwens Tue 6 Aug 2019

dear Vincenzo,

you are probably aware that the report has been published:

  • P2P Accounting for Planetary Survival: Towards a P2P Infrastructure for a Socially Just Circular Society. By Michel Bauwens and Alex Pazaitis. Foreword by Kate Raworth. P2P Foundation, June 2019.

URL = http://commonstransition.org/p2p-accounting-for-planetary-survival/ ; draft illustrations ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RQXhk83jrRTuWXKzPC6R5pxcbm-hqA-WiRgsfjU9NIs/edit#heading=h.sibbvp2nuezx )

How shared perma-circular supply chains, post-blockchain distributed ledgers, protocol cooperatives, and three new forms of post-capitalist accounting, could very well save the planet.


Contents

[hide ( https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Accounting_for_Planetary_Survival# )]

MB

Michel Bauwens Tue 6 Aug 2019

dear Stripey,

Just for info if you missed it, that report has now been published:

  • P2P Accounting for Planetary Survival: Towards a P2P Infrastructure for a Socially Just Circular Society. By Michel Bauwens and Alex Pazaitis. Foreword by Kate Raworth. P2P Foundation, June 2019.

URL = http://commonstransition.org/p2p-accounting-for-planetary-survival/ ; draft illustrations ( https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RQXhk83jrRTuWXKzPC6R5pxcbm-hqA-WiRgsfjU9NIs/edit#heading=h.sibbvp2nuezx )

How shared perma-circular supply chains, post-blockchain distributed ledgers, protocol cooperatives, and three new forms of post-capitalist accounting, could very well save the planet.


Contents

[hide ( https://wiki.p2pfoundation.net/P2P_Accounting_for_Planetary_Survival# )]

G

Graham Tue 6 Aug 2019

To be fair, I don't think @Strypey suggested that these two aspects, which might perhaps be labelled, to use the language of the Platform Design Toolkit https://platformdesigntoolkit.com as the Transaction Engine and Learning Engine, would essentially be separate. Indeed, as you suggest @Bob Haugen it makes a lot of sense for them to be closely blended as they add value to each other.

VG

Vincenzo Giorgino Wed 7 Aug 2019

Hi Michel,

yes I know it, dowloaded and printed (the best way to read for me), partially red it. ... And cited quite soon!

Is
still open the invitation you did, maybe the last year, about the
possibility of research funding by a coop-based body? I have an idea
about a small town in South of Italy (near Paestum, Campania) where it
could be possible to set up the "Wise Commoning School" (you told me in
Paris lst February that you will be interested to teach in it).

A
community coop for energy self-production - like in Melpignano (Puglia
Region) and the implementation of what is called in Italy "albergo
diffuso" (widespread hotel).

Best,

enzo

MB

Michel Bauwens Wed 7 Aug 2019

I have not come up with funding, but have found one for a online MOOC on commons economics, which we are prototyping as we speak and developing in 2020, funded by Seoul city

VG

Vincenzo Giorgino Wed 7 Aug 2019

Ok.Thanks.