Loomio
March 29th, 2015 09:35

Let's fight for Net Neutrality before it becomes necessary. E-Mail the TRAI now.

Pirate Praveen
Pirate Praveen Public Seen by 178

So, the first thing you can do is to e-mail th TRAI on their comments email, which is : advqos@trai.gov.in You probably shouldn't copypasta someone else's email on this as it will lead to them beleiving that a few people are spamming their inbox. Some tooltips on what to write would be:

Some tooltips on what to write would be:

Refer to the recent Net Neutrality agitation, and the subsequent FCC ruling,
Talk about how loss of revenue to Telecos should not be the bar to progress,
Talk about how Net Neutrality laws have already been enacted in The Netherlands after a similar agitation there,
If you want to, talk about how rulings in favour of allowing said regulation are anti-development, and not what you expect from the Government.

What else can I do?

You can tweet the issue out and raise publicity. Since this ruling affects widely used services such as WhatsApp and Skype, more people should be willing to listen.

Dude all this takes too long.

Well, yeah, you can either take 5 minutes now or bitch endlessly later. It's your choice.

https://www.reddit.com/r/india/comments/30lz1p/lets_fight_for_net_neutrality_before_it_becomes/

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen March 29th, 2015 09:45

I just emailed them, we should campaign and send maximum comments.

Akshay

Akshay March 29th, 2015 12:08

On page 40 of that document there are some questions seeking comments. Probably there are more such pages. I guess if we are sending email, we should be answering those questions too.

Akshay

Akshay March 29th, 2015 12:20

Chapter 7 Issues for Consultation

Question 1 : I s it too early to establish a regulatory framework for OTT services , since internet penetration is still evolving , access speeds are generally low and there is limited coverage of high speed broadband in the country? Or, should some beginning be made now with a regulatory framework that could be adapted to changes in the future? Ple ase comment with justifications.

Question 2 : Should the OTT players offering communicat ion services ( voice, messaging and video call services ) through applications ( resid ent either in the country or outside ) be brought under the licensing regime? Please comment with justifications.

Question 3 : Is the growth of OTT impacting the traditional revenue stream of TSPs? If so, is the increase in data revenues of the TSPs sufficient to compensate for this impact ? Please comment with reason s

Question 4 : S hould the OTT players pay for use of the TSPs network over and above data charges paid by consu mers ? If yes, w hat pricing options can be adopted? Could such option s include prices based on bandwidth consumption? Can prices be used as a means of product/service differentiation? Please comment with justifications.

Question 5: Do you agree that imbala nce s exist in the regulatory environment in the operation of OTT players? If so , what should be the framework to address these issues? How can the prevailing laws and regulations be applied to OTT players (who operate in the virtual world) and compliance e nforced? What could be the impact on the economy? Please comment with justifications.

Question 6 : How should the security concerns be addressed with regard to OTT player s providing communication services ? W hat security conditions such as maintaining data records, logs etc. need to be mandated for such OTT players? And, how can compliance with these conditions be ensured i f the application s of such OTT players reside outside the country? Please comment with justifications.

Question 7: How should the OTT pl ayers offering app services ensure security , safety and privacy of the consumer? How should they ensure protection of consumer interest? Please comment with justifications.

Question 8: In what manner can the proposals for a regulatory framework for OTTs i n India draw from those of ETNO , referred to in para 4.23 or the best practices summarised in para 4. 2 9 ? And, what practices should be proscribed by regulatory fiat ? Please comment with justifications.

Question 9: What are your views on net neutrality in the Indian context? How should the various principles discussed in para 5.47 be dealt with? Please comment with justifications.

Question 10: What forms of discrimination or traffic management practices are reasonable and consistent with a pragmatic appr oach ? What should or can be permitted? Please comment with justifications

Question 11: Should the TSPs be mandated to publish various traffic management techniques used for different OTT applications ? Is this a sufficient condition to ensure transparen cy and a fair regulatory regime?

Question 12: How should the conducive and balanced environment be created s uch that TSPs are able to invest in network infrastructure and CAPs are able to innovate and grow? Who should bear the network upgradation costs? P lease comment with justifications.

Question 13 : Should TSPs be allowed to implement non

price based discrimination of services? If so, under what circumstances are such practices acceptable? What restrictions, if any, need to be placed so that such measu res are not abused? What measures should be adopted to ensure transparency to consumers ? Please comment with justifications.

Question 14 : Is there a justification for allowing differential pricing for data access and OTT communication services? If so, wha t changes need to be brought about in the present tariff and regulatory framework for telecommunication services in the country? Please comment with justifications.

Question 15 : Should OTT communication service players be treated as Bulk User of Telecom S ervices (BuTS)? H ow should the framework be structured to prevent any discrimination and protect stakeholder interest? Please comment with justification.

Question 16 : What framework should be adopted t o encourage India
specific OTT apps? Please comment wi th justifications.

Question 17 : If the OTT communication service players are to be licensed, should they be categorised as ASP or CSP? If so, what should be the framework? Please comment with justifications.

Question 18 : Is there a need to regulate subs cription charges for OTT communication services ? Please comment with justifications.

Question 19 : What steps should be taken by the Government for regulation of non communication OTT players? Please comment with justifications.

Question 20: Are there any other issues that have a bearing on the subject discussed?

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen March 29th, 2015 13:35

@akshay I answered those questions as well. I stressed on federated open standards to ensure competition and interoperability. This will ensure quality service via competition and chance for Indian players to enter the game.

Akshay

Akshay March 29th, 2015 13:37

I mentioned that users should be able to export their data. That's the only thing I said against OTTs :P Everything else was against TSPs :D

DU

[deactivated account] April 2nd, 2015 06:48

the protests seemed to have worked?

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen April 2nd, 2015 07:12

@arjun any news from TRAI?

DU

[deactivated account] April 2nd, 2015 07:25

@praveenarimbrathod honestly no , i havent really mailed them .. dint know how to go about it and was caught up with a few other things .. if its not a problem , could u forward me the mail u sent? jarjun@protonmail.com ..

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen April 2nd, 2015 12:19

@arjun I have forwarded you the mail. Don't use the exact words. Also read http://tomastouceda.com/2014/05/20/empty-promises-protonmail/ about proton mail. If they can change the javascript anytime they wish, you are blindly trusting them. I suggest using PGP and a mail provider like autistici.org or openmailbox.org, at least they can't change the encryption software.

DU

[deactivated account] April 2nd, 2015 15:02

@praveenarimbrathod - hey thanks for the email.. wont use ur content ,just needed for reference ..
And yes , I shall take a look at autistici and openmailbox .. shall send u my Public key

DU

[deactivated account] April 2nd, 2015 16:41

@praveenarimbrathod - just browsed through both autistici.org and openmailbox .. first impression was that autistici sounds like they could run out of funds anytime and openmailbox seems reliable in this case .. privacy wise , both look good.. which one would you suggest? .. also , do you think they're reliable enough to use it as my primary email service?

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen April 2nd, 2015 18:11

@arjun I use autistici as my primary id, there were a few times they were under DDOS attack. I don't know about openmailbox, I know a friend who uses it. @akshay and @balasankarchelamat also use autistici.

DU

[deactivated account] April 2nd, 2015 19:39

@praveenarimbrathod - alright , autistici it is then! .. thank you

Fayad Fami

Fayad Fami April 4th, 2015 08:33

Some work going on at this time.

https://twitter.com/nixxin/status/584236907992748033?s=09

20 days left to send opinions.

DU

[deactivated account] April 5th, 2015 02:47

@praveenarimbrathod - could u pls end me ur public key in my email adrress

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen April 6th, 2015 07:43

There is a dedicated campaign site http://netneutrality.in

Akshay

Akshay April 6th, 2015 11:53

@arkarjun you could make a cartoon like http://theoatmeal.com/blog/net_neutrality

Could take ideas from http://aravindet.svbtle.com/appu-and-the-bus-operators
learnlearn.in/net-neutrality/

Some Mozillians and people in Bangalore are also trying to do things.

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen April 7th, 2015 10:08

We are translating Appu's story into Malayalam https://etherpad.mozilla.org/NetNeutralityInMLBusNeutrality We should try and translate it to as many Indian languages as possible.

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen April 7th, 2015 17:05

Odisha MP writes to TRAI http://ibnlive.in.com/news/odisha-mp-earns-internet-points-by-writing-a-letter-to-the-trai-chairman-in-support-of-net-neutrality/538497-79.html lets try and contact more representatives to write similar letters.

@arkarjun can we talk to our MP?

Akshay

Akshay April 7th, 2015 17:51

@vik do you think hamaralinux can participate in a campaign like battelforthenet.com ? Net Neutrality India Team is preparing for it. Hamara could show non-obtrusive banners, and also put itself in the campaign page...

vik@hamara

vik@hamara April 7th, 2015 18:09

@akshay yes - that sounds like it aligns very well with us. Send us what you want us to do via our dev mailing list?

Akshay

Akshay April 7th, 2015 18:21

@vik okay! I shall post as soon as we gain some clarity, put together a few web pages, scripts, etc.. netneutrality.in will be the central point

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen started a proposal April 7th, 2015 18:27

Add a banner to our site to support net neutrality Closed 11:04pm - Saturday 11 Apr 2015

Outcome
by Akshay April 25th, 2017 05:22

Added a loading.. message to pirates.org.in

We should support the Net Neutrality campaign by adding a banner t our site and linking to netneutrality.in

Results
Agree - 5
Abstain - 5
Disagree - 5
Block - 5
5 people have voted (0%)
Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen
Agree
April 7th, 2015 18:28

this will show we are in this fight.

Akshay

Akshay
Agree
April 7th, 2015 18:30

Akshay

Akshay
Agree
April 7th, 2015 18:30

as soon as netneutrality.in is improved.

Vidyut

Vidyut
Agree
April 7th, 2015 19:03

haan ji. bahut superb.

MJS

michael john sinclair. April 7th, 2015 20:50

Good stuff

Adv.tksujith

Adv.tksujith April 8th, 2015 00:48

നെറ്റ് ന്യൂട്രാലിറ്റിയെക്കുറിച്ച് ഒരു ചെറിയ കുറിപ്പ് നല്‍കാമോ ?

ലൂക്കയിലിടാം...

2015-04-07 23:57 GMT+05:30 Pirate Praveen (Loomio) :

Pirate Praveen created a proposal in Indian Pirates:

Add a banner to our site to support net neutrality ( https://www.loomio.org/m/1zMONYJt/add-a-banner-to-our-site-to-support-net-neutrality?utm_campaign=thread_mailer&utm_medium=email&utm_source=new_motion )

We should support the Net Neutrality campaign by adding a banner t our site and linking to netneutrality.in ( http://netneutrality.in )

Closes on Saturday 11 Apr - 10:55pm

Have your say

Agree ( https://www.loomio.org/m/1zMONYJt/votes/new?position=yes&utm_campaign=thread_mailer&utm_medium=email&utm_source=new_motion )

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Disagree ( https://www.loomio.org/m/1zMONYJt/votes/new?position=no&utm_campaign=thread_mailer&utm_medium=email&utm_source=new_motion )

Block ( https://www.loomio.org/m/1zMONYJt/votes/new?position=block&utm_campaign=thread_mailer&utm_medium=email&utm_source=new_motion )

Reply to this email directly or view it on www.loomio.org ( https://www.loomio.org/m/1zMONYJt/add-a-banner-to-our-site-to-support-net-neutrality?utm_campaign=thread_mailer&utm_medium=email&utm_source=new_motion ).

Turn on emails for this discussion ( https://www.loomio.org/email_actions/follow_discussion/83208/DgLRWy3hZ6AuqtmuTVQ7 ) to receive further activity.

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Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen April 8th, 2015 11:36

I think we should make a wordpress plugin similar to how we did internet blackout day (we can just change the date and text) and blackout all websites on April 24th.

DU

[deactivated account]
Agree
April 10th, 2015 17:32

VP

vishnu Prakash
Agree
April 10th, 2015 18:14

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen April 15th, 2015 06:26

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen April 15th, 2015 07:18

After Flip Kart, now its time to target Facebook. How about we do a boycott facebook for breaking net neutrality campaign? Who are all in it?

Fayad Fami

Fayad Fami April 15th, 2015 09:18

@praveenarimbrathod the article you wrote in azhimukham deserves special mention. It is written for the common man, it must be circulated as much as we can.

Just to confirm, associate members do have the right to take part in discussions except for voting rights. Is that right ?

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen April 15th, 2015 11:19

@fayadfami you don't even have to be an associate member to participate in discussions and voting where you have access, like this discussion. Voting members make official positions for the collective.

Akshay

Akshay April 15th, 2015 12:12

Cleartrip voluntarily pulled out of Internet.org Read Cleartrip is standing up for #NetNeutrality

There's a reddit discussion just trending about #FacebookBlackout but this has to be really coordinated.

Fayad Fami

Fayad Fami April 15th, 2015 14:48

Great. Check this out. The cleartrip blog says

"If Cleartrip supports Net Neutrality, then one might legitimately ask why Cleartrip chose to participate in the Indian launch of Internet.org.
Here’s why: a few weeks back, Facebook reached out and asked us to participate in the Internet.org initiative with the intention of helping us deliver one of our most affordable products to the more underserved parts of the country."

I had closed my facebook account some time back but I would still like to take part in all ways possible. I am in.

However I really think a campaign against facebook should not tread into facts other than their stand in netneutrality.

Akshay

Akshay April 21st, 2015 15:27

Jimmy Wales' unquestioning support of Internet.org makes me in a difficult position where I have to argue against free access to world's knowledge.
Can anyone go through https://twitter.com/jimmy_wales/status/590423143036096513 and help heal my soul?

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen April 22nd, 2015 04:42

@akshay the problem is with your expectation. We want angels and devils so we don't have to think. But everyone has both these aspects in them. Just because someone does a lot of good is not a reason to support them when they do something wrong. Attacking someone who is in opposing camp is easy. But standing up to someone in your own group needs immense courage and conviction. Every privilleged person thinks its their god given mission to help the poor and show their kindness. They do not want to acknowledge that their privillege is the result of historic oppression and they are part of the reason why they remain poor. They think poor people needs charity and kindness. What we really need is a conscious collective effort to end systematic oppression of people and that will need questioning of our own roles and privilleges. Accepting our role in creating the poor is much harder than feeling good about helping poor.

DU

[deactivated account] April 22nd, 2015 16:04

@- "Every privilleged person thinks its their god given mission to help the poor and show their kindness. They do not want to acknowledge that their privillege is the result of historic oppression and they are part of the reason why they remain poor. They think poor people needs charity and kindness. " ... well said praveen! ..

And I had mailed TRAI and the 3 MP's of Chennai too .. no reply from anyone ..

DU

[deactivated account] April 22nd, 2015 16:04

@praveenarimbrathod - - "Every privilleged person thinks its their god given mission to help the poor and show their kindness. They do not want to acknowledge that their privillege is the result of historic oppression and they are part of the reason why they remain poor. They think poor people needs charity and kindness. " ... well said praveen! ..

And I had mailed TRAI and the 3 MP's of Chennai too .. no reply from anyone ..

Pirate Praveen

Pirate Praveen April 23rd, 2015 04:11

If Facebook wants to do charity, let them give free data packs and promote Facebook. They can say sponsored by Facebook.com and give ads when packs are activated. Blocking other websites is not acceptable. Prashant Sugathan mentioned this yesterday "when Wikipedia started, if Encyclopedia Britannica was free rated, and they had to pay for Wikipedia, would Wikipedia have become what it is today?"

Everyone wants to believe they are the last word on everything. What if we can still make a better encyclopedia? Wikipedia Zero is still okay on its own, if it was not used to legitimize internet.org. Facebook is misusing Wikipedia's good will for their own self interest. It is sad Jimmy Wales can't see it for what it is.

DU

[deactivated account] April 27th, 2015 01:07

@akshay "There’s a reddit discussion just trending about #FacebookBlackout but this has to be really coordinated." ..

just noticed this post of yours .. is this for real? have you been following this up? .. cuz if this is for real , we might wanna try and spread the word around as much as we could ..

Akshay

Akshay April 27th, 2015 02:41

Apparently there were many events on Facebook itself for a blackout on 24th. Some people deactivated their account on that day. But I have no idea how that'd be visible :P

DU

[deactivated account] April 28th, 2015 12:05

And TRAI publishes the email addresses of everyone who mailed them regarding net neutrality.. Including their full name and the content of the email!.. So much for privacy!..