Loomio

Mention users in comment

F
Flaburgan Public Seen by 514

As discuss on #3742, this is something asked but not so easy to implement. If someone has an idea about how to deal with that...

Btw the real issue is #1851 the first one is a duplicate

DM

David McMullin Fri 22 Feb 2013

For the scope issues Jonne brought up, what are the rules for resharing? Would it be possible to auto-reshare (the post) when mentioning so that the mention-ee (my imaginary word for the person being mentioned) would be guaranteed access.

I'm not familiar with how re-shares work though (only allowed on public posts maybe?) but even a minimal impl of only allowing mentions where re-shares are possible would be a step forward, right?

JR

Jason Robinson Fri 22 Feb 2013

Reshares are only allowed for public posts. If it's a limited post it cannot be reshared since that would violate the privacy that the original poster has set for the post.

If anyone feels like wanting to develop this feature I think we should have a quick vote first on how to do it :)

G

goob Fri 22 Feb 2013

How about only allowing mentions in comments of other people who have posted a comment on that post (or of the person who posted the original post)? That way you could alert someone that you were responding to their comment, and wouldn't have the problem of privacy leak.

So:
- Mentions in posts of people whom you have placed in an aspect.
- Mentions in comments of the person who posted the post to which your comment is attached, or of people who have already commented on that thread.

That should avoid problems. It's a limited functionality, but is better that introducing privacy leaks and shouldn't introduce difficult database issues.

How does that sound?

JR

Jason Robinson Sun 24 Feb 2013

@goob, yep that would certainly work and would implement some of the functionality without introducing hard to solve problems due to decentralization.

F

Flaburgan Mon 25 Feb 2013

@Goob the problem is, users will not understand that and will always complain that mention is broken.

And, second, when the user is commenting on the post too, he has a notification anyway, so mention is not really useful here. Personally, I will use it when I read a post which can interested someone but I think this person will not have this post in his stream, so I mention him to show him something which can interest him.

So I am in favor of mention for everyone in public posts for the moment, I think it's there that it is really useful.

RF

Rasmus Fuhse Tue 5 Mar 2013

In a different social network (that is not federating yet) I use mentioning as the tool to expand a private posting/discussion to more people.

I am not quite sure if this would be even possible in the architecture of private postings in Diaspora*. But to be honest, everyone who can read a posting is always able to copy and paste this posting to his/her aspects or even public. But if the user is doing so, the discussion is split in two, which is quite annoying, too. And since there might be usecases for expanding the private group of the posting, I would simply allow this feature if it is technically possible.

G

goob Tue 5 Mar 2013

I'm afraid I disagree, Rasmus. Once a privacy level has been set, it would not be good practice for someone to be able to retrospectively widen the visibility. For example, if you had made a post just to your close friends aspect, and I was in that aspect and commented on it (perhaps giving some private information), and you later made the post public, that would be a bad privacy breach. It's that sort of thing that Diaspora was set up to avoid (among some other things, of course).

JH

Jonne Haß Tue 5 Mar 2013

@rasmusfuhse I think you went into a fallacy there. While it's true that you can just copy & paste something to distribute it further, that's not intentional, it just can't be prevented. It's no feature. And it really is no feature to widen the audience, that's just the effect it can has. On the other hand if we allow mentions in comments that is a feature, a thing that should work, something your meant to be doing, are encouraged to do. That's not the case with copy-pasting, that has a way higher mental barrier.

That one is possible doesn't justify the other. Not at all.

RF

Rasmus Fuhse Tue 5 Mar 2013

If it isn't intended to be able to widen the audience of a private posting, that's okay. Then it would be consequent to not allow mentions in comments of private postings.

F

Flaburgan Tue 5 Mar 2013

So, what to we decide, allow mention in comment only for public post, like reshare ?

JR

Jason Robinson Wed 6 Mar 2013

I'd say what Goob wrote some way below

  • Mentions in posts of people whom you have placed in an aspect.
  • Mentions in comments of the person who posted the post to which your comment is attached, or of people who have already commented on that thread.

This way for sure technically it can be done. I don't think "users will not get it" is a good excuse to not introduce wanted functionality.

F

Flaburgan Wed 6 Mar 2013

so if i find a public post written by somebody i don't share with and i want to point it to you, will i be able to mention you in comment?

JR

Jason Robinson Thu 7 Mar 2013

I don't think you can even mention people not in your aspects when creating posts. How would the pod know who to suggest?

F

Flaburgan Thu 7 Mar 2013

But you are in my aspect. The creator of the post is not in.

IGM

Ivan Gabriel Morén Thu 7 Mar 2013

@jasonrobinson Right now you can mention people in an post using the @. I'm not perfectly sure how it works, as it's for example possible to share to an aspect and mention someone not in that aspect.

If we're going to implement mentions in comments, I propose that we do it this way:

  • You can mention anyone in your aspects or anyone of those who have already has commented.
  • If the original post isn't shared with that person, then the mentionlink is coloured, for instance red. When clicking "Comment" a dialogue is shown, telling you that this person cannot show the post. If you click Comment Anyway, the mention just turns into an ordinary MarkDown link to the mentioned users profile, and the users don't get any notification.

Then we have no privacy leaks and the ability to mention people! The only thing is that you could use the feature to figure out which of your contacts that belongs to which of the other persons aspects. Don't know if that's a problem though.

G

goob Thu 7 Mar 2013

I'm afraid I disagree with that, Ivan.

I don't think there is any benefit in @-mentioning someone if they are not going to get notification and will not be able to read the post or their mention. That sounds like a sort of reverse privacy leak - you're giving other people, who that person might not know, knowledge of their existence with a link to their details. I think that's a bad idea.

The only workable (technically, and from a privacy point of view) solution seems to me to be @-mentioning people only who are already part of that conversation.

From a privacy point of view, you could also add:
- people in your aspects, for a public post.
- people in your aspects and who are also in the aspects to which this post has been shared by the original poster, for limited posts.

But I suspect this would create enormous problems regarding federation and so on. The benefit would not outweigh the problems, from my point of view.

IGM

Ivan Gabriel Morén Thu 7 Mar 2013

That's true, you certainly have a point. But the ability to see peoples' profiles is already some kind of privacy leak. Sure, you give away the knowledge of their existence, but as all profiles are public then doing so without the use of mentions is not super-duper-hard. Nothing prevents you, it's just to type examplepod.com/u/username and you're done. But yeah in reverse it's kind of an privacy leak, as this feature makes it easier.

I say the problem lays with the non-anonymity of the profiles. You can only prevent your profile to pop up in the diaspora search bar, not stay anonymous. So there are two alternatives if we want to keep our privacy standards:

  1. We could implement mentions for the ones that has already commented on a post.

  2. We could update how the profiles work and include mentioning all people that's in your aspects too (maybe we should a new loomio discussion about that?)

F

Flaburgan Thu 7 Mar 2013

As the user agreed if they want to be searchable or not, we can simply check that, no ?

I think we should allow this feature maybe with some restriction but it's to bad to not have it only for really few weird use cases..

G

goob Fri 8 Mar 2013

If it's possible to @mention people in comments who are in your aspects, and you @-mention someone who isn't involved in a discussion, it also gives away to anyone who sees that that they have a connection to you.

In practical terms, this might not be a problem in many instances, but no one is supposed to be able to see who is connected to whom in Diaspora, and by allowing comment-mentions of people in aspects, we're breaking the 'promise' that connections will not be revealed. It's a matter of principle rather than practical safety.

IGM

Ivan Gabriel Morén Fri 8 Mar 2013

@goob You're perfectly right, I too mentioned this earlier but I dunno if you saw it. Mentioning in this way in a limited post also lets you know exactly which people in your aspects that belongs to any of the aspects that the poster posted to. So, if we want to stay cool and keep our fantastic privacy with the aspects, I guess there's only one solution left. Luckily it isn't a bad solution at all.

If we look at when people actually use mentioning right now, it is to get someone in the discussion's attention, not to link to another persons profile. So if we implement the function just like that, like @goob already proposed a long way down the page, there would be no privacy leaks, as you don't need to have a connection to those people, and no one would be unsure why not all people can be mentioned, hopefully ;)

Are we BTW ready to create some kind of proposals and start the decision-taking process?

F

Flaburgan Thu 11 Jul 2013

If someone has time to look at that, it would be awesome. I often see public posts I want to point to people, mention them would be the perfect solution for that..

G

goob started a proposal Fri 24 Jan 2014

Limit mentions in comments to participants Closed Fri 7 Feb 2014

Outcome
by goob Tue 25 Apr 2017

We will limit mentions in LIMITED posts to people who have participated in the post (by commenting or by liking the post).

As suggested earlier in the discussion, this proposal is to limit mentions in comments on a post to the other people who have posted a comment on that post and the person who posted the original post.

This keeps it simple, and prevents anyone being mentioned who would not be able to see the comment in which they have been mentioned because they are not in the aspect to which the post has been made.

(For public posts, we could enable mentioning of anyone, but let's deal with that in a separate proposal.)

Results
Agree - 20
Abstain - 20
Disagree - 20
Block - 20
29 people have voted (18%)
S

SuperTux88
Agree
Fri 24 Jan 2014

IGM

Ivan Gabriel Morén
Agree
Fri 24 Jan 2014

PH

Paul Hill
Disagree
Fri 24 Jan 2014

MM

Marek Marecki
Abstain
Fri 24 Jan 2014

G

goob
Agree
Fri 24 Jan 2014

This would keep things simple and mean that everyone knows who can be mentioned in a comment, while avoiding privacy leaks.

IGM

Ivan Gabriel Morén
Agree
Fri 24 Jan 2014

The main use case for comment mentioning that I've seen is as an alternative to threaded comments. As people already are using it, having a notification connected to the thing would be perfect.

M

maliktunga
Disagree
Fri 24 Jan 2014

Having used Google+, I know that mentioning someone we know in comments is a great way to not only share a post, but to also engage in the discussion.

M

maliktunga
Disagree
Fri 24 Jan 2014

Having used Google+, I know that mentioning someone we know in comments is a great way to not only share a post, but to also invite that person to engage in the discussion.

M

maliktunga
Disagree
Fri 24 Jan 2014

Having used Google+, I know that mentioning someone we know in comments is a great way not only to share a post, but also to invite that person to engage in the discussion.

To certain extent, I think there could be an opt-out in the settings.

M

maliktunga
Disagree
Fri 24 Jan 2014

Having used Google+, I know that mentioning someone we know in comments is a great way not only to share a post, but also to invite that person to engage in the discussion.

However, I think there could be an opt-out in the settings.

ST

Sean Tilley
Agree
Fri 24 Jan 2014

DU

[deactivated account]
Agree
Fri 24 Jan 2014

Is it wrong to say 'Yes' to this simply because I have this feature in other social nets? Also I feel if @mentions are given then the person that is @mentioned is more likely to come back to the post/thread, where they may not ordinarily.

N

NicoAlto
Agree
Fri 24 Jan 2014

SM

Seth Martin
Disagree
Fri 24 Jan 2014

People including myself are currently mentioning others everyday using markdown and don't consider it a privacy issue. I think this proposal will create confusion for many users.

JR

Jason Robinson
Agree
Sat 25 Jan 2014

PG

Paul Greindl
Agree
Sat 25 Jan 2014

SVB

Steffen van Bergerem
Agree
Sat 25 Jan 2014

G

goob Sat 25 Jan 2014

@sethmartin, this proposal is about mentioning other people in comments, not in posts. It's currently not possible to mention people in comments at all. You can of course provide a link to someone's profile page in a comment using Markdown, but this isn't '@-mentioning' in terms of Diaspora's coding, and doesn't provide that person with a notification. It wouldn't be affected by this proposal. This proposal relates only to @-mentions.

F

Flaburgan Sun 26 Jan 2014

When someone already interacted with a post, he get a notification from it when somone comment. (the notification system has to be fixed to allow that for person not sharing with you, but that's not about mention). So allow to mention someone who already interacted is useless: he will already receive a notificaton anyway. Imo, mentions are useful to point to someone who didn't know the post "look, you could be interested about that!".

For public posts, we could enable mentioning of anyone, but let’s deal with that in a separate proposal.

This is the important point. Let's allow everybody to be mentionned in the comments of a public post, then, if we want, we could allow mentions in the comment of a limited post, but if the notification system is fixed, it's kind of useless..

SM

Seth Martin
Disagree
Sun 26 Jan 2014

People including myself are currently mentioning others everyday (in comments) using markdown and don't consider it a privacy issue. I think this proposal will create confusion for many users.

M

maliktunga
Disagree
Tue 28 Jan 2014

I see that this is not about public posts yet, and that the limitation is to avoid privacy leaks. I now fully agree with this.

M

maliktunga
Agree
Tue 28 Jan 2014

I see that this is not about public posts yet, and that the limitation is to avoid privacy leaks. I now fully agree with this.

PP

Patrick Pankotsch
Agree
Tue 28 Jan 2014

M

matl
Agree
Tue 28 Jan 2014

DM

David Morley
Agree
Wed 29 Jan 2014

DB

Dee Baumdeesaster
Agree
Wed 29 Jan 2014

KAK

Karthikeyan A K
Agree
Thu 30 Jan 2014

fair enough

DU

[deactivated account]
Disagree
Fri 31 Jan 2014

In my view mentions should be used to get someone's attention to an ongoing discussion, and limiting them to participating users only will prevent this.

FTL

FÁBIÁN Tamás László
Agree
Sun 2 Feb 2014

QD

Quentin Dufour
Disagree
Sun 2 Feb 2014

As Itai, it should be important to include everybody. Because it can signal to someone which is not in the conversation that he can be interested. And it is the only option to alert someone when you reshare a post (ie you can't edit a reshare).

SVB

Steffen van Bergerem Sun 2 Feb 2014

@quentindufour Reshares are public posts. This proposal deals with private posts. Who is "everybody" on private posts? All users? Then you would be able to mention someone who isn't allowed to see the post and so he shouldn't get a notification. If thats all users who can see the post then you are able to create a list of those users which would be a privacy issue. Do you have a solution for the privacy issue?

QD

Quentin Dufour
Disagree
Sun 2 Feb 2014

As Itai, it should be important to include everybody. Because it can signal to someone which is not in the conversation that he can be interested.

QD

Quentin Dufour Sun 2 Feb 2014

@steffenvanbergerem Thanks, I didn't notice that detail. I edited my comment. And I will start to think about that.

MŁ

Maciek Łoziński
Disagree
Mon 3 Feb 2014

I think everyone that can see the post we comment should be able to be mentioned.

A

Adrenalin
Agree
Tue 4 Feb 2014

DU

[deactivated account]
Agree
Wed 5 Feb 2014

A

Airon90
Disagree
Wed 5 Feb 2014

What if I reshare something from my stream and I want to tag someone (in order to watch it, in order to participate to a discussion, in order to mention him/her/it, ...)?

SVB

Steffen van Bergerem Wed 5 Feb 2014

@michaelmoroni

Reshares are public posts. This proposal deals with private posts.

SP

Sebas Pedersen
Agree
Thu 6 Feb 2014

N

Nick
Disagree
Thu 6 Feb 2014

Hey, I disagree with this - this removes a lot of the reason for having comments - alerting new people to a discussion.

Surely the users you can mention should be limited to those who are part of the post's aspect?

N

Nick Thu 6 Feb 2014

Hey, I disagree with this - this removes a lot of the reason for having comments - alerting new people to a discussion.

Surely the users you can mention should be limited to those who are part of the post's aspect? If there's technical reasons why that's difficult, fine, but can't we agree that that's the ideal case scenario?

ALSO - and this is a serious qualm and makes me think we should rerun the vote - a couple of the comments from people voting 'aye' to this decision suggest that they think they are voting yes to having mentions, rather than restricting them (e.g. Is it wrong to say 'Yes' to this simply because I have this feature in other social nets?)

N

Nick Thu 6 Feb 2014

Also, whilst this is about 'private' posts there are lots of cases I can imagine where i would want to post things to various aspects - i.e in an ideal world quite a few people - without making it fully public, but would still want the ability to bring it to the attention of new people (who would still be within those aspects, but didn't notice it or comment on it straight away).

MŁ

Maciek Łoziński Fri 7 Feb 2014

  1. why should we limit possibilities of mentioning in comments, related to posts? in my opinion we should be able to mention everyone we share with, that is able to see commented post.
  2. I don't see any privacy leaks here - I can mention somebody, so what? I can also paste a link to his profile and I cant't be stopped from doing this, so if I want to share knowledge of some person's existence, I'll do it anyway. The difference is - when I mention somebody, that person is noticed about that. Shouldn't we then encourage mentions whenever possible?
MŁ

Maciek Łoziński
Disagree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

I see no privacy issues here. I think everyone that can see the post we comment should be able to be mentioned.

G

goob Fri 7 Feb 2014

@nickdowson, your objection only makes any sense if the original post concerned is yours. If you're commenting on a limited post made by someone else, it is likely that none of your contacts will be in the aspect belonging to the other person with which the post was shared. And because of Diaspora's privacy controls, your account on your pod will not know who else is in that other person's aspects. This private information is not shared.

The only people you are able to know are part of the aspect with which the post has been shared are those who have already commented on it. This proposal therefore actually extends the reach of comment-mentioning beyond what would otherwise be possible. (Of course the actual extent is currently zero, because mentioning in comments is not possible at all.)

G

goob Fri 7 Feb 2014

And while you can of course always say 'Yes, because other social networks have it', this doesn't have anything to say about why it would be a good idea to include it in Diaspora...

N

Nick Fri 7 Feb 2014

Hey @goob I disagree about your use case - i can think of plenty of cases when a limited post made by someone else might still be relevant to other people to post to.

Also, for the record, 'yes, because other social networks have it' wasn't my argument - I agree that that alone isn't a good argument. I was quoting 'Rich Kavanagh' who voted for this and suggesting he misunderstood the vote (maybe I've misunderstood it too).

G

goob Fri 7 Feb 2014

@nickdowson there might be plenty of cases in which you would want to mention all sorts of people, but in a limited post started by someone else you wouldn't be able to, because your account would have no means of finding out who is part of of the poster's aspects to which they have shared the post. That's the point.

L

lebarjack
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

SVB

Steffen van Bergerem Fri 7 Feb 2014

@goob One could also add users who liked the post. And the author of the post could be able to mention everyone who got the post. But thats all our 'privacy guidelines' allow.

W

Waithamai
Disagree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

G

goob started a proposal Fri 7 Feb 2014

Allow mention of any Diaspora user in comments on PUBLIC posts Closed Thu 20 Feb 2014

Outcome
by goob Tue 25 Apr 2017

We'll enable @mention of anyone who can be mentioned (ideally contacts and participants) for public posts.

Propose that there will be no limits on who can be @-mentioned in comments on public posts. (Obviously, normal Diaspora limits apply: that is, each user can only @-mention people who are in their aspects.)

Results
Agree - 31
Abstain - 31
Disagree - 31
Block - 31
32 people have voted (20%)
S

SuperTux88
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

DU

[deactivated account]
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

SVB

Steffen van Bergerem
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

contacts + participants would be nice

JR

Jason Robinson
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

A

Airon90
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

JR

Jason Robinson
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

N

NicoAlto
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

SM

Seth Martin
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

JL

Jelle Langbroek
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

DB

Dee Baumdeesaster
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

DU

[deactivated account]
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

SP

Sebas Pedersen
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

T

theradialactive
Agree
Fri 7 Feb 2014

AKS

Akhil Krishnan S
Agree
Sat 8 Feb 2014

MŁ

Maciek Łoziński
Agree
Sat 8 Feb 2014

F

Flaburgan
Agree
Sat 8 Feb 2014

G

goob
Agree
Sat 8 Feb 2014

As @steffenvanbergerem says, mention any of the user's contacts plus any participants in the post would be great.

PG

Paul Greindl
Agree
Sat 8 Feb 2014

PG

Paul Greindl
Agree
Sat 8 Feb 2014

Agree with Steffen: contacts & participants, if possible

DU

[deactivated account]
Agree
Sat 8 Feb 2014

contacts and participants would be best

R

Ryuno-Ki Mon 10 Feb 2014

@goob: Please, extend your mindset to not only people, who already commented on a restricted shared post - but also on people, who hit "Like" =)

However, you convinced me with your arguments.

R

Ryuno-Ki
Agree
Mon 10 Feb 2014

SVB

Steffen van Bergerem Tue 11 Feb 2014

@ryunoki This proposal deals with public posts. The last one was about private posts.

G

goob Tue 11 Feb 2014

And although I didn't specify people who like a post in the proposal about limited posts, it did read 'limit mentions to participants', which would (or at least could) include people who had liked the post.

DU

[deactivated account]
Agree
Tue 11 Feb 2014

CG

Christian Giménez
Agree
Wed 12 Feb 2014

comments participants + contacts in the aspect would be great!