Loomio
April 25th, 2013 02:34

Should we rename group admins?

Rob Guthrie
Rob Guthrie Public Seen by 80

I'm soo tired of seeing the term admin around loomio.

It's used in 2 ways: managing the loomio system (accepting new group requests etc), as well as having special privileges in groups.

So I want to suggest we use another term for the latter purpose of facilitating discussions and managing groups - Keeping admin for the system sense.

I see most other communities use the term Mod, short for moderator. So I will suggest we use that. I would like to suggest the term facilitator too..

ANYTHING but admin. please. Your thoughts?

 vivien maidaborn

vivien maidaborn April 25th, 2013 02:44

I really like that, I'm a mod I'm a mod mod mod - could be a song!

Richard D. Bartlett

Richard D. Bartlett April 25th, 2013 03:38

I'm not against this suggestion at all, I just don't quite understand the problem, or what benefit you expect would come from splitting the role in two.

Matthew Bartlett

Matthew Bartlett April 25th, 2013 03:56

I agree having two different sorts of admin is a bit confusing. 'Moderator' is okay. 'Mod' too techie, I think.

Rob Guthrie

Rob Guthrie April 25th, 2013 04:13

@richarddbartlett it's already split in two. Group Admins and (yuck) super admins I'm just trying to get clarity around what people mean when they say admin. Moderator is what is used in some other online communities.

Richard D. Bartlett

Richard D. Bartlett April 25th, 2013 04:34

@robertguthrie oh I see! Sorry I misread you, which is a case in point for why we should have two words for the two roles.

For the purposes of this conversation I'd suggest we refer to Group Admins and Super Admins, and figure out a better alternative for one or both of them.

I'm not saying 'admin' is the best word for the Group Admin, but I do feel they perform a more administrative function than a moderating one. 'Moderating' can refer to restricting people's expression, which I don't think Group Admins are doing.

Rob Guthrie

Rob Guthrie April 25th, 2013 04:55

Every time you say super admin, I cry

Rob Guthrie

Rob Guthrie April 25th, 2013 04:57

Thing is, its the group admins who can delete content, remove people, invite people etc.. Sounds like Moderating to me.

Given a few hours to settle I'm kinda ok with Group Admin.

iacocoba

iacocoba April 25th, 2013 07:42

@richarddbartlett we need multiple option vote... in Agora Voting we are going to star using VUT ! Enjoy! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single_transferable_vote
a)Administrator
b)Mod
c)Moderator

Richard D. Bartlett

Richard D. Bartlett April 25th, 2013 12:22

@yagoabati I disagree that we need a poll to answer this question. I don't think we want to identify the most popular option, we want to identify the best option.

iacocoba

iacocoba April 25th, 2013 18:47

So @richarddbartlett you dont think the most popular option is the best? And how can we know wich is the best?

Rob Guthrie

Rob Guthrie April 26th, 2013 00:53

Today, I'm pretty happy with the user facing term Admin. Why was my opinion so different yesterday?

Alanna Irving

Alanna Irving April 26th, 2013 01:22

@yagoabati you really believe that most popular = best? Think about how that works in the real world. I have a feeling you have many experiences where the popular opinion really isn't the best one. By forcing people to wrestle with the options, not just having a poll, as you can see people's thinking evolves. See what happened to Rob's opinion? That's the beauty of Loomio.

Personally I prefer "facilitator" for the group admin role, and admin for the Loomio admin role.

Richard D. Bartlett

Richard D. Bartlett April 26th, 2013 02:16

I think currently our Group Admins are doing mostly administration and a little bit of facilitation. They are the only users that can perform administrative functions, so it makes sense to identify them on that basis.

I don't feel good about calling them Facilitators or Moderators, because anyone in the group can facilitate or moderate.

We want to encourage facilitation to be as widely distributed as possible, so I think it could be quite problematic to label a couple of people Facilitator, because the inference is that the rest of us are Not Facilitators.

Potentially in the future we will want to identify a Facilitator for particular discussions, but I don't think it is a role that needs to be named yet.

@robertguthrie if we called the Super Admins 'mechanics' or 'gorillas' or 'execs' or anything, and left Group Admins as they are, would that feel better?

Rob Guthrie

Rob Guthrie April 26th, 2013 03:28

Yep. System admins.

iacocoba

iacocoba April 26th, 2013 10:05

@alannakrause i didn't mean I believe that. I think the most popular=best when you have a significant sample of people. This sample of people have to be informed and connected with reality. If you create a Loomio group you have to add people in order to make everything work in this direction.

iacocoba

iacocoba April 26th, 2013 10:16

@richarddbartlett This is the ideal situation. @alannakrause Obviously you will never have this ideal situation. In this case i wondering if is better to have a liquid feedback so people who are more informed and better prepared could have a delegation over them so they have extra votes.

Danyl Strype

Danyl Strype April 29th, 2013 12:24

I think @robertguthrie has raised a good point around the confusion created for the Loomio team. Important to remember though that only the term for Group Admin is a user-facing term. It should be a term that has the same meaning in Loomio as it would in a face-to-face meeting. I agree with @richarddbartlett that the actual mechanics of the role is more administrator than moderator or facilitator. Perhaps "engineer" could replace admin for Super Admins (this phrase makes me cringe too ;)

Richard D. Bartlett

Richard D. Bartlett started a proposal May 15th, 2013 00:11

Rename group admin to "Group Coordinator" Closed 2:16am - Saturday 18 May 2013

Results
Agree - 19
Abstain - 19
Disagree - 19
Block - 19
20 people have voted (2%)
Richard D. Bartlett

Richard D. Bartlett
Agree
May 15th, 2013 00:13

Admin, facilitator, moderator... all these words have connotations that don't quite fit the role. Talking about a 'coordinator' feels more neutral and accurate to me.

Joshua Vial

Joshua Vial
Agree
May 15th, 2013 00:19

I prefer coordinator personally

Matthew Bartlett

Matthew Bartlett
Agree
May 15th, 2013 00:24

Megan Salole

Megan Salole
Agree
May 15th, 2013 00:34

Love it.

Rob Guthrie

Rob Guthrie
Abstain
May 15th, 2013 00:59

No really happy about a 2 word label - but the meaning is captured well. I wonder if we're worrying too much about the meaning when we just want a simple term people already understand. The double use of admin is not user visible so not a big prob

Rob Guthrie

Rob Guthrie May 15th, 2013 01:05

Maybe we should do a UX test on this. Something like "Here is a screenshot from loomio - from looking at this, which users would you contact if you wanted to suggest someone to invite, or required someone to remove a comment from a discussion" and look a the results using admin vs coordinator

Or we do what we want.. and teach the users our style/system rather than trying to meeting their expectations all the time :)

Matthew Bartlett

Matthew Bartlett May 15th, 2013 01:23

@robertguthrie What about 'coordinator' by itself?

 vivien maidaborn

vivien maidaborn May 15th, 2013 03:22

Yeah I like coordinator by itself, can we make that change in the proposal @richarddbartlett ?

Alanna Irving

Alanna Irving
Disagree
May 15th, 2013 04:05

I prefer simply "coordinator"

Sophie Jerram

Sophie Jerram
Agree
May 15th, 2013 04:18

Matthew Bartlett

Matthew Bartlett
Disagree
May 15th, 2013 04:26

coordinator

Richard D. Bartlett

Richard D. Bartlett May 15th, 2013 05:03

Oh yeah that's what I meant. Rather than starting a new proposal, treat it as if it just says "coordinator". If that pleases you please click green!

@alannakrause @matthewbartlett @vivienmaidabornloo

Benjamin Knight

Benjamin Knight
Agree
May 15th, 2013 05:03

'coordinator' is great!

Alanna Irving

Alanna Irving
Agree
May 15th, 2013 05:09

I prefer simply "coordinator"

Richard D. Bartlett

Richard D. Bartlett May 15th, 2013 05:44

See how it looks in context:

Imgur

Rob Guthrie

Rob Guthrie
Agree
May 15th, 2013 06:39

Chloe Waretini (Loomio Helper)

Chloe Waretini (Loomio Helper)
Agree
May 15th, 2013 08:12

Yay for coordinator :-)

Matthew Bartlett

Matthew Bartlett
Agree
May 15th, 2013 08:34

coordinator

iacocoba

iacocoba
Abstain
May 15th, 2013 09:50

Nicolas Wormser

Nicolas Wormser
Agree
May 15th, 2013 14:04

Doug Friedman

Doug Friedman
Agree
May 15th, 2013 16:44

mix irving

mix irving
Agree
May 15th, 2013 23:38

Miles Thompson

Miles Thompson
Agree
May 16th, 2013 04:07

 vivien maidaborn

vivien maidaborn
Agree
May 16th, 2013 06:12

yeah, just coordinator is great

Jon Lemmon

Jon Lemmon
Agree
May 16th, 2013 10:22

Francisco George PP-ES

Francisco George PP-ES
Agree
May 16th, 2013 11:59

Aaron Thornton

Aaron Thornton
Agree
May 16th, 2013 20:48

Hannah Salmon

Hannah Salmon
Agree
May 17th, 2013 01:14

IG

Ivo Gruner
Agree
May 17th, 2013 08:42

for it just makes so much sense :)