Loomio
Tue 23 Apr 2019

vehicles on site during the festival "to be or not to be"

IS
Iona Steen Public Seen by 218

So we are keen to reduce vehicle activity on site during the festival i.e. Tuesday morning until Monday. This is because:

1) the main road through the site this year is the promenade for theme camps and where everyone will be walking (the promenade has been moved because last year there was two much damage to the grass)
2) reducing or not allowing vehicle traffic is safer and in line with how most festival events are run
3) the site owners do not want lots of vehicle traffic on site

To be clear, vehicles can drive in and out of free camping at the top of the site as much as they like whenever they like. The restriction applied only for driving down the hill into the main site.

Saying no vehicle on site at all during the event is probably not feasible - so what is the middle way?

Let's get down to some constructive problem solving and come up with a solution

proposed solutions so far
1) an on site vehicle pass for theme camps dropping off supplies or equipment and people with accessibility needs
2) a shuttle van making trips from the free camping area to the main site
3) a shuttle cart
4) drive wherever the fuck you like and hope you run over some children while you're at it
5) Unfortunately PETA got wind of our donkey solution and convinced the donkey's to go on strike - nooooo :(

The poll to the right has some options for people to vote on, plus the option to add new ideas.
Decisions need to be reached by 29th of April not later

NS

Nick Staines started a poll Tue 23 Apr 2019

Getting into the centre of site Closed Mon 29 Apr 2019

How do we keep this accessible and safe?

9 - Vehicle pass
0 - Shuttle van
2 - Shuttle cart
1 - Shanks's pony
6 - Let camps drive in the back way
1 - Have vehicles go off-road behind the camps
1 - One-way route, vehicles give way to people
CH

Corinne Hitching Tue 23 Apr 2019

Vehicle pass

This method appeared to work at Borderland though there was a couple of cases when we just ran out and had no clue when we'd get one back. It is the cheapest option too.

DH

Daniel Hurley Tue 23 Apr 2019

Shuttle cart
XD

xavier dubruille Tue 23 Apr 2019

Vehicle pass

but at the same time informing actively/encouraging all the camp to sort their stuff before tuesday ..... the donkey goes on strike, I will have donkey after sunday to help cool!!

L

Lozmatron Wed 24 Apr 2019

Shuttle cart

I’d check with DPW - I’m sure they’ll have booked the gater again this year and shouldn’t need to use it so much during the event

CD-

Camp Dad - Dead Insides Wed 24 Apr 2019

Vehicle pass

Is it worth surveying the theme camps to find out when they are bringing their infrastructure to site? It may produce a better idea of when most vehicles will be arriving and allow a more informed cut off date.

DU

[deactivated account] Wed 24 Apr 2019

Vehicle pass
A

Ax Wed 24 Apr 2019

Vehicle pass
AH

Allan Hainey Wed 24 Apr 2019

Have vehicles go off-road behind the camps
Let camps drive in the back way
AH

Allan Hainey Wed 24 Apr 2019

Shanks's pony
Have vehicles go off-road behind the camps
Let camps drive in the back way
PP

Paul Phare Wed 24 Apr 2019

Let camps drive in the back way

I think this is a good shout if we can get permission from the Estate. It will solve the problem of issuing passes and gate can simply have a strict policy of no cars coming through the top entrance. People with accessibility needs can also come this way as it leads safely to the accessible camping area

AH

Allan Hainey Wed 24 Apr 2019

Vehicle pass
Shanks's pony
Have vehicles go off-road behind the camps
Let camps drive in the back way
PF

Papy Fisher Wed 24 Apr 2019

Desanka Kitchen makes daily runs for supplies (if we acquire better refrigeration options, then maybe less, but let’s call it daily). We usually leave around 1pm and return about 3pm. Maybe a range of hours (like 2-5pm), we have two more Rangers on duty with high viz vests, walking with vehicles in/out?

Someone mentioned coming in from the direction of the Manor, approaching the point from that side. If that would be acceptable, I think that to be an excellent option.

PF

Papy Fisher Wed 24 Apr 2019

Vehicle pass

Desanka Kitchen makes daily runs for supplies (if we acquire better refrigeration options, then maybe less, but let’s call it daily). We usually leave around 1pm and return about 3pm. Maybe a range of hours (like 2-5pm), we have two more Rangers on duty with high viz vests, walking with vehicles in/out?

Someone mentioned coming in from the direction of the Manor, approaching the point from that side. If that would be acceptable, I think that to be an excellent option.

A

Amandasm Wed 24 Apr 2019

Vehicle pass

This: Vehicle pass, with someone walking in front of the vehicle to ensure that the path is clear/slow speed is kept.

A

Amandasm Wed 24 Apr 2019

Let camps drive in the back way
Vehicle pass

2nd choice: Vehicle pass, with someone walking in front of the vehicle to ensure that the path is clear/slow speed is kept.

ME

Martin Evans Thu 25 Apr 2019

One-way route, vehicles give way to people
NP

N Petz Thu 25 Apr 2019

Let camps drive in the back way
D

Dean Fri 26 Apr 2019

Let camps drive in the back way
Vehicle pass
CD

Charlotte Davis Fri 26 Apr 2019

SB

Stephen Brannigan Mon 29 Apr 2019

Let camps drive in the back way
L

Lozmatron Wed 24 Apr 2019

Last year we had the gater which was used for this purpose. We could do that again and have it marshalled by rangers in hi vis?

L

Lozmatron Wed 24 Apr 2019

My issue with the vehicle pass is that it would need to be rangered. People took the Mickey with that a bit last year and were driving onsite too quickly, without hazard lights and without being marshalled...

Y

Yon Wed 24 Apr 2019

Last year it was fine. This year will be to.
Keep vehicles at the edge of site. Let camps organise their own solutions to transport their supplies. It's like a 4 minute walk with a barrow or a crew of people holding stuff.

It's pretty easy to do. We're camping in an english country garden (literally), this mildest of discomforts will only serve to strengthen us and build character.

(of course those with accessibility challenges should have a pass)

CD-

Camp Dad - Dead Insides Wed 24 Apr 2019

I think the key thing for most of the theme camps here is the cut off date of Tuesday morning. Whilst I understand that this is the official start of the festival, a number of camps have already stated that they will not be on site before Tuesday. People have limitations with leave from work, or logistical issues, or just plain not having enough camp members on site for build.

Speaking for the Dead Insides, the earliest any of us are able to be on site is Tuesday afternoon, and even then it's only 2 of us (3 if you count a baby who will require one adult handler at all times...essentially bringing us down to 1 adult capable of carrying camp equipment).
We are unlikely to have our venue built before Wednesday at the earliest and the idea of carrying the heavy infrastructure for our venue by hand (or even handcart) from the edge of site to our allocated build site is far from appealing...and frankly impossible for one person to do!
I fully agree with the idea of keeping vehicles off site once camps are built (barring accessibility needs), but maybe a later day in the week would be a better solution. Is it worth checking with camp leads to see when they expect to have infrastructure on site and working with that information to come up with a new cut-off?

As with any other burn, vehicles on site should drive no faster than 5mph and have their hazard lights on, something that anyone driving a vehicle past gate should be informed of.

AH

Allan Hainey Wed 24 Apr 2019

Alternatively if the promonade part is now on the road can a vehicle going down to theme camps not just drive along over the grass where the Zokalo was last year?

Tell people not to just drive in each others tyre treads to keep grass damage to a minimum & limit the number of vehicles. That'd be effectively round the back of the camps so should be minimal pedestrians & it is vehicle accessible, if a bit bumpy.

ME

Martin Evans Thu 25 Apr 2019

I took a couple of attempts getting my van up and down the hill on the grass, with quite a few skids. Worse when wet.

CH

Corinne Hitching Thu 25 Apr 2019

There was a well marked road loop until Wednesday/Thurs when it was shut off for the shenanigans to begin at Kiwi burn. Can a loop be marked out? It required a traffic lead though

HB

Hilda Breakspear Wed 24 Apr 2019

Vehicle pass but with someone walking in front of the vehicle to ensure that the path is clear.

ME

Martin Evans Thu 25 Apr 2019

Another option, as vehicles find it difficult passing each other on the road: a one-way circuit. In at the top end, out by the manor. People on the road have the right-of way, so vehicles can only travel as fast as people (that's about 2.5 - 3.5mph)

NP

N Petz Thu 25 Apr 2019

I think the cut off we had Wed/Thur last year with vehicles travelling at a limited speed (2/3mph) which worked wonderfully. Could we not do this again?

D

Dean Fri 26 Apr 2019

Camp Crumpet lead here. I'm with the Dead Insides in that I think the cut-off date for free vehicle access should be later, perhaps end of Tuesday. After that maybe vehicle passes and/or access via the back entrance.

It seems like a lot of stress on the rangers to accompany vehicles, and it's hardly a complicated job. Could we not just say that any vehicle given a pass has to also supply someone to walk in front of the vehicle in high vis? (with a central supply of jackets that accompany the passes)

AG

Adrian Godwin Sat 27 Apr 2019

It's not a bad principle but it assumes too much about the vehicle / driver. Of course, there will always be edge cases and you don't have to have a solution that solves them all, but you do need to find a workaround where needed.

So here's an edge case to review (not just strawman but a real problem) : A vehicle with one driver, some disability, no camp. Where do they get their escort ? phone a friend (if they have one available on site ? if there's phone coverage ?) ? From the ranger pool ? Kidnap a passing hippie ?

Overall, I think a red-flag escort is overkill. By all means ban speeders and restrict access, but when 99% of drivers will respect the limit, it creates more problems than it solves
.

IS

Iona Steen Fri 26 Apr 2019

totally agree

IS

Iona Steen Sun 28 Apr 2019

Ok tomorrow morning is the deadline for the
decision on vehicle access on site

Thanks everyone for your input it was a very solution focused discussion.

It looks like the most popular solution was to have vehicle pass, which we will issue for theme camps and those with accessibility needs.

We will look at closing vehicle access to site Tuesday evening rather than Tuesday morning

in the mean time Paul had very kindly being liaising with Alex (the site owner) and has got permission to use the back entrance (ie approaching from the Manor ), which will reduce traffic on the main promenade and also we have been given permission to drive on the grass.

We will release details of how the vehicle passes will work in the coming weeks

L

Lexy Thu 9 May 2019

Hi, can we have a public statement on the final decision of this on this thread so everyone knows the conclusion?
Maybe update original post - not sure best way to communicate this on Loomio!
Thanks!!

PP

Paul Phare Fri 10 May 2019

It has been decided that movement of vehicles will be restricted from noon on Tuesday May 21st until the following Monday morning. Anyone arriving at Gate between these times will be asked to park in the upper free camping field and if they want to join their camp will have to carry their stuff down to the Glade.

Those bringing camp infrastructure, people with accessibility needs or campervans that are joining their camps will be given a vehicle pass when they arrive at Gate and issued instructions for accessing the site. However this will only be possible between the hours of 8am to 6pm. If you arrive outside these hours you will have to wait.

Paul

07775705374

SB

Stephen Brannigan Fri 10 May 2019

Thanks for the clarification!

S

Siren Tue 30 Apr 2019

As far as i know, we are not at all allowed to use the front entrance. Sam will be better placed to confirm, but this was a clear stipulation last year.

A

Ax Wed 8 May 2019

Will we be okay receiving a large water delivery on Wednesday 22nd or Thursday 23rd?

PP

Paul Phare Wed 8 May 2019

Have you considered where the water is going to be located so people can pick it up? It was at the upper free camping site last year. If it's the same this year then no problem as it's accessible before Gate

Paul

07775705374

ME

Martin Evans Fri 10 May 2019

I was going to put it in the same the place as last year, close to the entrance of the camping field. I'll be camping nearby.