Toward Reimaging Governance

Thank you @rathy. Looks very interesting. I will have a read.

"Reimagining governance is not about simply injecting new technologies into old government structures; rather, new innovations can fundamentally remake governance and have a direct, positive effect on people’s lives."

I agree but think that the addition of new technologies will facilitate the transition. People would not be willing to support a different system unless they can see examples of it working. There are no examples.... yet.

i agree, in fact I think the only way we can interact on the scale we want to discuss here is technology.

the point about working examples is one that is quite major Joum, this has to be attempted in an area the size of an australian state.

i am at work so I wont get a chance to really read this document, but if anyone picks up anything that resonates with them, id appreciate it popping in this thread (:

i get emails with the content which means I can read and reply and still look like I'm working lol

good work @rathy

@lbjoum, am assuming you're talking about Australia specifically, re: no examples? I've read a little bit about what's happening in Estonia with Rahvakogu, and in Iceland with Betri Reykjavik, and these do seem like genuine attempts to crowd-source legislation rather than supplement traditional citizen "participation". I think that's what the quote is referring to - that, when implementing technology, the ethos of that new tech needs to coincide with it. Open, free, etc. Otherwise it won't work or will be a wolf in sheep's clothing.

These experiments are still occurring under the auspices of representative democracy, though, so they are still a part of a transitional phase.

I'm kind of terribly busy, but the GovLab report looks super interesting so far-- I'll be looking closer to analyze and comment on it eventually, here and elsewhere. Thanks very much for the link!

Thanks for the examples @rathy.

I was meaning that there are no examples in the world where a person or party is elected into government on the promise to use online direct democracy in every decision they make. I forgot that there is one example.

Many governments have offered situations where people can participate in decision making but, to my knowledge, there has only ever been one person/party elected into government on the platform and that is Demeox in Sweden.

Thanks for that @lbjoum! I've never heard of them. They sound awesome!

@rathy @lbjoum I put forth a brief vision of what I think Direct Democracy could look like in a proposal from 10 months ago, when far fewer people were on Loomio :-) -- https://www.loomio.org/d/DuTaiIZq/a-world-without-politicians?proposal=HhksrgPV

It's called "A World Without Politicians" and the specific starter proposal is "I believe that we can do better than representative democracy".

I'm not saying we need to continue on that page, but rather that I'd like to bring these ideas into your discussion!

STEVES POST FROM THE OTHER PAGE

Discussion

*

Avatar noandroid ( https://www.loomio.org/u/IePfXawM/steve-phillips-elimisteve )

Steve Phillips / @elimisteve ( https://www.loomio.org/u/IePfXawM/steve-phillips-elimisteve )

If We The People can make decisions ourselves, and coordinate large-scale initiatives on our own, do we need politicians?

I don’t think so. Wouldn’t we just need a few lawyers to help us craft new laws, that we can then all vote upon?

Imagine a world where you pull up an app on your smartphone, or visit a mobile-optimized website, and see one-paragraph summaries of laws that our fellow citizens have proposed. Interspersed with these summaries could be…

(1) links to the full versions of each bill,
(2) stats showing what percentage of your friends voted for each bill (actually I think that’d be illegal in the US, so maybe not :-), and
(3) commentary and recommendations from 3rd-party groups you trust (e.g., ACLU, NY Times, Fox News, Democracy Now!, EFF, etc)

I personally think this could work rather well. I just don’t know how to get there from here.

Ideas?

10 months ago ( https://www.loomio.org/d/DuTaiIZq/a-world-without-politicians?proposal=HhksrgPV#comment-97751 )

hi steve, i just read your doc, my only issue is in a large scale direct democracy, some people can vote on issues they have no stake in the outcome of, and media can corrupt a large scale group.

im all for bringing everyone together in this way, but i would start with small independent direct democracies, dealing with most day to day stuff.
then if issues that affected a wider are of that community (think the equivalent of state borders now) were needed, they could be elevated up to a higher level of direct democracy, each state would get a single vote in these matter based on the local democratic system choosing which way to vote.

or somethign like that, the real key is to reduce corruptable areas down to a single town or node.

the more central we make the system, the more likley it is to be taken over by special interests or a good media campaign.

my litmus test is always what happens if one guy wants to take over.
if there is a way i can see to take it over, i look for other options.

i also wouldnt trust our current internet or current hardware to ensure safe outcomes of digital democracy, i would think a new second internet, or even smaller local networks to the home, to allow access to direct democratic functions and services.

just some ideas to mull over.