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[post] Overview of citizen lists / pirate parties in elections

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Josse Public Seen by 248

What have we got we can recommend? LLN:Kayoux; Tubize: pp, Anvers: pp+Volt, La Louvière: Cum Lupis, I could not see anything democratic in Ghent, Ostend says to be having 3 citizen lists...

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Josse Wed 26 Sep 2018

Of course. They seem to be trusted as citizen list but I would like to hear a second opinion about it.

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Wed 26 Sep 2018

I'm not convinced about the idea of including Gentse burgers in any article from us. We don't know anything about them, do we? They left PPBe, they don't share info, so... I don't really see what we could even say about them (same about Oostende or whatever)

Also : Patrick Installé has a Parti Pirate list in Tubize.

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Josse Wed 26 Sep 2018

Because a lot of parties announce themselves into citizen participation, it would be easy to do a check on their program to see how seriously they can be taken as a citizen list : are they linked to political parties? Are they linked to left-right ideology? Are they transparent? You don't need to know them to answer these questions.

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HgO Tue 2 Oct 2018

I disagree. I think that you actually need to meet them to see if they are really open and transparent, if they are a real citizen list, to see how they work, etc. Although, it should not be difficult to meet, I guess. Especially if you explain that you want to write an article about them x)

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Wed 26 Sep 2018

Hmm OK I get it now, but maybe it will be confusing to have both "pirate involvement in the elections" + "fact-check the citizen lists" in the same article. Shouldn't it be split in 2 different articles then?

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Josse Fri 28 Sep 2018

Would not the styles be a bit confusing (or maybe this is just the advantage to show our diversity) to mix Antwerp posters and Patrick in one article?

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Josse Sun 30 Sep 2018

On the other hand, we could just do Antwerp in Dutch and Tubize in French

JVO

Jan Van Opstal Tue 2 Oct 2018

Regarding "burgerlijsten" For me this is NOT equal to the Pirate Party concept. Why should we then make a article? It is there choice to sail under another flag...

IB

Ilja Baert Sun 7 Oct 2018

I agree that a pirate party list is different from a citizenslist and may even be a different concept, but having/supporting citizenslists is a very pirate thing to do IMO, so having an article making people aware of it is def something we should have if someone can write it.

Why is it a pirate-thing
1. As pirates we believe that a bottom-up approach is needed. Citizenlists do this.
2. As pirates we believe that people should be included in the decision-making process. A citizenlist can bring the needed changes to do this, without having to rely on party-politics.
3. The idea of having a citizenslist instead of a pirate-list grew independently in at least three crews that I know of (W-VL, Ghent, LLN). If this wasn't an idea in line with pirate-values, we wouldn't have seen this. (W-VL eventually died before anything happened, but AFAIK LLN and Ghent are going forward with it, and I think also Liege)

Having/supporting citizenslists for local elections may not be the 'original' pirate party strategy, but we're pirates. We learn, experiment and grow (which implies changing when we feel the need arises). For me citizenslists are just a new step in this evolution.

An article which I think is also relevant to this question is https://nl.pirateparty.be/de-piraten-van-ottignies-louvain-la-neuve-op-weg-naar-een-local-e-democratie-voor-2018-2042-en-later/

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Josse Sun 7 Oct 2018

@iljabaert That article is indeed quite good, but it is outdated with the Local-e anyways (it is kayoux now). I don't know if there is a way to put things together again, but referring to kayoux, cum lupis which we are sure about and then refer to others. But I have not get any confirmation from Gent that Gentse Burgers is to be trusted, although I would not see why. if you could at least contact them, that would be good. For Leuven, there is also a new party of independent citizens, but no values of cogovernance or transparency were found.