Loomio
H

HgO Sat 13 Oct 2018

I changed the introduction of the French newsletter.

I have some remarks :
- I'm not convinced by the new banneer… Why can't we keep the old one ?
- The title of the newsletter ("pré-élections") could juste be "Octobre 2018"…
- I'm sad that you didn't wait for us to check the Dutch version… We are not in a hurry yet : you almost finished the newsletter, it could be sent this evening…

J

Josse Sat 13 Oct 2018

J

Josse Sat 13 Oct 2018

I let you decide about sending the others.

H

HgO Sat 13 Oct 2018

@josse since December, the newsletter takes only 15 minutes to be send, instead of one whole day. I fixed that at that time.

For the old banner, I don't find it ugly…

I'll check the English newsletter…

J

Josse Sat 13 Oct 2018

@iljabaert Do you like the banner or do you prefer the old or does it need some explaining?

IB

Ilja Baert Sat 13 Oct 2018

I don't really care tbh. I think it's pretty, but I don't understand the slogan or what's on the zeppelin.
I don't know what the previous banner was, tho, so I can't really compare '

IB

Ilja Baert Sat 13 Oct 2018

I do like the idea of having more than one banner. It's like having extra goodies in the newsletter. They do need to be recognizable as being PPBE. I think we have that by
1. refering in text to Pirates or PirateParty
2. Dominant purple color
3. The PirateParty-logo
All three elements are in this banner.

H

HgO Sat 13 Oct 2018

I changed for the old banner, because @iljabaert you weren't the only one confused by the slogan. @vanecx thought it was quite cryptic, and I'm not even convinced the message is true. Ideally it's true, but in practice a lot of pirates reappear when it's elections time...

I'm not against changing the banner for a better one, but I think it shouldn't be done in a hurry like that.

IB

Ilja Baert Sat 13 Oct 2018

Ah, yes, the 'old' one is better. It's less pretty, but more clear. Or at least, less confusing.

If there are people capable of making others (or adapting the text on the zeppelin one), having other banners would be nice to have. (Although I have no idea who that would be.)

H

HgO Sat 13 Oct 2018

Oh and of course, for me the newsletter is ready to be sent :)

IB

Ilja Baert Sat 13 Oct 2018

I noticed that there are other articles in the Dutch and French version. Is there a reason beyond the effort translating takes? (and yes, for me also do send, I'm just wondering, not trying to hold back the sending of newsletters :nerd: )

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Sat 13 Oct 2018

I don't think any of the french-speakers who would be able to translate articles are interested in translating the one with the Antwerp posters (because no one seems to be happy with these posters).

The Braine-l'Alleud article is interesting but just got published and has not been translated yet, I don't know if anyone wants to do that, as it''s really long? (maybe @koenvdp can give his opinion?). The Liège article has basically no interest for people outside of Liège.

K

koen_v Sun 14 Oct 2018

I guess you mean the article “Braine-l’Alleud : Les Pirates déposent un recours au Conseil d’État”, Posted on 10th of cotober 2018 ? –
Well, to begin with, I like to contribute to the pirate party, & among the possible contributions, at this moment, translating to Dutch is my favorite, I like to help that way. It could happen once and a while that I do not have the time to translate, but when I do, I’m a volunteer for it, & if you think I didn’t see a certain invitation to translate you can always send me a message (or , like you did right now, mention my name in a Loomio-post, so I receive an automatic mailed message then when I really have to pay attention to a certain Loomiomessage).
Concerning Braine-l’Alleud: for me it’s ok, I agree to translate it. However, I see that parts of the text clearly refer to a pre-election time, whereas now it is post election time. Would I adapt the Dutch text a little so it is adapted to after-election time? E.g. a pad where my translation can be seen & so others can look if I adapted to after-election time (& translated) the way it should?
Plus: when should the translation be ready? Would it be ok if I made the translation within e.g. a week?

IB

Ilja Baert Sun 14 Oct 2018

Ah, no, it wasn't meant like that per-sé '
It's mostly 'cause we had in the past that events on the FR-site where different from the NL-site. That gave the impression on the Flemish side that nothing was happening on the Walloon side and vice versa. The reason was that the events where on the wordpress and because those really are two sites, the FR-events didn't show on the NL-event page and NL-events didn't show on the FR-event page. We solved that by switching to use the wiki for calendar/events. I was mostly wondering if we had similar technical constraints. If it's just that they don't exist 'cause no one had time /energy/motivation to translate it, that's fine IMO.

Of course the nicest thing to be would be to always have everything in two, or even more, languages so that everyone knows whats happening, but that's just too impractical to get/organize :laughing: We're all volunteering so the most important thing to me is that we don't burn our self out either ;)

K

koen_v Sun 14 Oct 2018

Ok, no problem.
Concerning your sentence:
“If it's just that they don't exist 'cause no one had time /energy/motivation to translate it, that's fine IMO.”: I believe sometimes another cause (than ‘no one had time /energy/motivation’) could be, that someone would have been interested to translate it, but didn’t understand/saw that it would be useful that something would be translated: or, yet another possible reason, that a person read it but forgot about it?

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Mon 15 Oct 2018

Would I adapt the Dutch text a little so it is adapted to after-election time?

Yes, of course! It was meant to be published before the elections, but it would totally be ok to adapt it (apparently the mayor will still be the same so nothing has changed in Braine-l'Alleud this Sunday). There is no emergency at all for this translation, take all the time you need :)

(we just didn't think about a possible translation : first we were focused on the writing itself, then we focused on the newsletter)

K

koen_v Mon 15 Oct 2018

Ok. For the occasion of the translation (& minor post-election-update), I made a pad:

https://pad.pirateparty.be/p/recours-au-conseil

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Sat 13 Oct 2018

For me too, it's ready. Some changes have been made (added François Tuyishimere Halleux, the pirate on the Ecolo list in Molenbeek ; last sentence also is more gramatically correct and links to the documentary Démocratie(s)?

Ahoy,

À Anvers, nous présentons la liste Paars (Mauve) aux élections communales et provinciales. Nous présentons également une liste en tant que Parti Pirate à Tubize. Un pirate, François Tuyishimire Halleux, se trouve à la 12e place sur la liste Ecolo à Molenbeek. À La Louvière et Ottignies-Louvain-la-Neuve nous participons aux listes citoyennes Cum Lupis et Kayoux. Cependant, ce ne sont pas les seules listes citoyennes crédibles qui se présentent.

Ne vous énervez pas trop et rappelez-vous : élections et démocratie ne sont pas synonymes !

H

HgO Sat 13 Oct 2018

Ok, I'm sending the newsletter. Shout now if you want to change something !!

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Sat 13 Oct 2018

K

koen_v Tue 16 Oct 2018

A translation to Dutch of the text “Braine-l’Alleud : Les Pirates déposent un recours au Conseil d’État”, Posted on 10th of cotober 2018, is now available on the pad https://pad.pirateparty.be/p/recours-au-conseil , including some minor change to adapt it to post-election times. It would be good if someone looks/some look if the translation I made, is correct. A+, K

J

Josse Thu 18 Oct 2018

Do you use deepl to translate? It can use some extra reading.

K

koen_v Fri 19 Oct 2018

I used several sources to translate the text: my brain, google translate, deepl, the internet (online dictionaries, Wikipedia,…),… It took me several hours to translate it, and I read it over a lot of times, each time making it a little better. I can not or almost not make the translation you see better than it is, it’s about the best I can. Maybe going further away from the original, French text could make it a little bit better, but I don’t think that is necessary, the French text was ok according to me.

K

koen_v Fri 19 Oct 2018

I read the text once again, and changed some things. I couldn’t change that much, since I can’t do a lot better than that. I hope the text seems better to you now,

J

Josse Fri 19 Oct 2018

Ok, as my criticism was not very constructive, I took the time to reread the entire text and you will see my comments in light green. (some small changes (some strikethroughs)) And maybe 'in beroep gaan" is just simpler than "beroep indienen". I always think it is difficult to translate from French to Dutch as it does not feel so "bloated" in French as in Dutch. Or maybe @hgo just writes in a bloated way. Seems more than ready for publishing. If I offended everyone else, I could do it tomorrow.

K

koen_v Sat 20 Oct 2018

I implemented your proposition ‘gaan in beroep’, it’s true that it is better. Concerning your other changements: I think at least more than half of them, maybe almost all of them (or all of them?), make the text better. Concerning your remark that translations sometimes seem a little bit ‘bloated’: I understand that opinion, and it’s true that it also goes for this text. I also ask myself what could be the cause, I do not know. I’ll think about it if and if (if) I would have an idea how it could be solved/countered, I will implement it in future translations I work on. However, I also think the ‘bloatedness’ in this text is, yes, a characteristic, but at the same time, it is not a big problem, maybe a small one; I’ve got the impression you think the same.

IB

Ilja Baert Sat 20 Oct 2018

This really is a nice article to have in Dutch as well :heart: Thanks for this!

Unrelated to the translation, the copyright notice wasn't very clear to me what licence it was. The French article now links to the page of the license (thx @hgo ). I also changed on the pad to have the full CC BY-SA 4.0 and added the link to the Dutch page of the human-readable version of the license. Something we should have for all articles IMO
This is also made me notice we don't have copyright notices on the articles as a whole. This makes them copyrighted in a non-free way by default. We may want to ad a notice on the whole as well? We could put it in the footer of each page for example

IB

Ilja Baert Sat 20 Oct 2018

If someone at the next lab can give me access, I can check if I can do it '
These seem like nice first issues as well -_^

K

koen_v Thu 25 Oct 2018

I happen to see something which something which made me think of the newsletter concerning lack of transparency in Brain l'Alleud... : https://www.bruzz.be/actua/sint-pieters-woluwe-dient-klacht-voor-laster-tegen-transparencia-2018-10-24