Loomio
Sun 2 Sep 2012 10:01PM

Bettermeans as Community Governance Platform

A altruism Public Seen by 73
A

Poll Created Sun 2 Sep 2012 10:01PM

Bettermeans as Community Governance Platform Closed Wed 12 Sep 2012 3:46PM

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Agree 0.0% 0  
Abstain 41.7% 5 BO JH JR F DY
Disagree 58.3% 7 ST MS S CB JH AX BB
Block 0.0% 0  
Undecided 0% 251 BK FS TS AA HF DM GC RF M EG G PC PP LP T SH DU H M RF

12 of 263 people have voted (4%)

ST

Sean Tilley
Disagree
Sun 2 Sep 2012 10:33PM

I feel really iffy about this one, unfortunately.

F

Flaburgan
Abstain
Mon 3 Sep 2012 8:50AM

But I think we should test it before vote against it

JH

Jeremy Huffman
Abstain
Mon 3 Sep 2012 5:33PM

It looks nice and I'm not against it but I think for now Loomio + GH will give us what we need; if we outgrow it we should know by that time exactly what features we would actually use in another product.

CB

Chris Blount
Disagree
Mon 3 Sep 2012 5:50PM

Let's stick with Loomio. I don't feel we should spend much time debating or testing governance platforms right now when Loomio has enough features to get us started.

AX

adri xador
Disagree
Fri 7 Sep 2012 6:06PM

I belive Loom.io is for all the users and PT and BM are for devs. IMHO if you wan to do diaspora a good social red for the people use loom.io so every user without skills can vote.

S

SleepyDaddySoftware
Disagree
Sun 9 Sep 2012 5:55AM

Let's just use what we have, for now. More important things to work on.

BB

Brent Bartlett
Disagree
Tue 11 Sep 2012 5:17PM

Site flagged by Firefox as untrusted. Loom.io works well, and BM is dubious.

DY

Dave Yingling
Abstain
Wed 12 Sep 2012 12:05AM

BM looks good (apart from the silly security warning, good grief!), but so does loomio. Both are probably fine for what we need.

A

altruism Sun 2 Sep 2012 10:17PM

ST

Sean Tilley Sun 2 Sep 2012 10:34PM

While part of me wants to really like BM, the main reason that I'm hesitant to adopt it is that it apes PT heavily. After all the free help Pivotal gave us (a place to work, advisors for D*, code testing, and a vote of confidence), using their competitor would be a masisve slap in the face. :(

A

altruism Sun 2 Sep 2012 10:56PM

Sean, I did not know there were politics involved :)

How similar are BM (Bettermeans) and PT (Pivotal tracker)? Does PT have a good way to prioritize between proposals/features? Does PT have workflow management?

A

altruism Sun 2 Sep 2012 11:13PM

About Bettermeans:

Our codebase is based largely on an early fork of Redmine.

Redmine is open source and released under the terms of the GNU General Public License v2 (GPL). All redmine code is Copyright (C) 2006-2011 Jean-Philippe Lang All non-redmine code is Copyright (C) Shereef Bishay, and is dual-licensed: you may use either the GNU General Public License v2 (GPL), or the MIT License (see http://www.opensource.org/licenses/mit-license.php).

A

altruism Sun 2 Sep 2012 11:14PM

Bettermeans is based on Redmine:

http://www.redmine.org

A

altruism Sun 2 Sep 2012 11:17PM

ST

Sean Tilley Mon 3 Sep 2012 12:17AM

No, PT is more specifically for agile development, but much of the visual designs were aped by BM. However, the issue isn't merely a political one, it's more of an issue tracker for accepting and logging tasks. It's not exactly a great platform for making proposals so much as it is one for assigning people to do things. If BM makes a good issue tracker, I'm not against testing it out in the similar way we're trying out loomio. Just keep in mind that it's an issue that might upset a lot of people that gave a lot to help the team from the early days of the project. While we don't have to use PT (and I don't think it's well-suited to community issue tracking). I still think Github Issues is fine for community issue-tracking, and we already have a well-established issue queue. Perhaps a better, more diplomatic solution would be to change how we use GitHub to be more community-inclusive.

A

altruism Mon 3 Sep 2012 1:05AM

Well, maybe the starting point should be github (GH). What do we have in PT that we do not have in GH? Do you want to involve a broad community or only developers?

FS

Florian Staudacher Mon 3 Sep 2012 2:26AM

I am not against testing it, but I have to say I'd rather keep the amount of tools we are goint to use to a minimum with a clear separation of scope/functionality.
I don't see us moving away from Github anytime soon.
Also, I don't think we've already figured out all the features what exactly we want from the tool we eventually choose.

A

altruism Mon 3 Sep 2012 8:41AM

Florian, good point. As I said, we should have GH as a starting point, define what features we need for community governance. I "proposed" BM NOT because I think it is better than Loomio or GH, rather because it has features that I do not see in Loomio. Features as estimate complexity of each proposal, and prioritize between proposals. So we can have a discussion about just governance model, the workflow and features (in a platform).

JR

Jason Robinson Mon 3 Sep 2012 8:42AM

To be honest, I like the fact that Loomio is simple. Simple means more people can participate as the learning curve is small. That is why also GH issue management is great. Simple.

I must say I don't like PT that much but we also need a tool for the actual development tasks so I guess it is needed. Pity GH doesn't have this stuff.

A

altruism Mon 3 Sep 2012 8:49AM

Jason, simple is beautiful, but lets not forget what my friend Albert once said "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.”

BB

Brent Bartlett Mon 10 Sep 2012 4:54AM

Any idea why the BM site gets flagged by Firefox as untrusted?

ST

Sean Tilley Mon 10 Sep 2012 6:35AM

I dunno, I noticed that the other day though.

A

altruism Tue 11 Sep 2012 5:45PM

Brent, it think it is because they redirect the bettermeans.com address to *.heroku.com.

BB

Brent Bartlett Tue 11 Sep 2012 8:44PM

altruism: Sorry, I still don't get it. Lots of sites redirect without becoming "untrusted".

A

altruism Tue 11 Sep 2012 8:50PM

Brent, that was my best guess :) I can ask them if you want.

BB

Brent Bartlett Tue 11 Sep 2012 9:04PM

altruism: Yes, please do. They should be aware of it. If they are aware of it, and aren't doing anything to fix it...that's just irresponsible.

If they want me to use their site, they should make sure that Firefox isn't going to pop up a big, fat warning sign when I go there. That just screams "unprofessional", and makes me wonder how secure they are.

A

altruism Tue 11 Sep 2012 9:13PM

Brent, ok I see your point and I will ask them.