How does Loomio compare to Discourse?
First impressions are not brilliant - what do you get in exchange for giving up unlimited categories and subcategories, proper security, rich text editing, wiki posts, etc.?

I'm told it somehow extracts concensus opinions from the messages, but I haven't found that bit yet.

Is it OK for 10,000 users?

Hi, my name is Jade and I am a member of XR San Francisco Bay Area in the US. We are using a keybase and email for everything right now and it’s driving people batty. We are evaluating Loomio to help our SOS process, and looking at setting up a regional Discourse server for more general chapter communications.
It’s been a bit of time since the last post on this thread: how are people feeling about Loomio? It seems that the use of Discourse is pretty established with the global base and regional chapters... but it seems like Loomio’s explicit democratic features are really nice for a specific kind of conversation. I’m tempted to try to get folks to use both, but only use Loomio specifically for important decisions that warrant the voting structure.

Exactly. Loomio is the only platform designed for deliberation and decision making.

Hi Jade!

I like Loomio very much. I also love the people behind it, their vision and philosophy.

I would agree with Martin that it's a profoundly superior tool for decentralized decision making, and harnessing collective intelligence. Discourse is great but it's basically just one of a thousand generic messaging platforms.

For me, the design of a virtual space like this is the equivalent of a facilitator; they steward the way in which people come together, listen, share and co-create. Facilitation / design can be terrible, and waste people's potential, or it can be transformative, bonding and generative.

Since I first got involved in XR I almost immediately recognised how much Loomio could help - after all, it was created by a group of people very intimately involved in and passionate about the Occupy movement; recognising that one of the greatest challenges was coherent, efficient and inclusive conversations that resulted in transparent and collaborative decisions.

You have groups and subgroups in Loomio. Also you have threads (like Slack) add you can see I'm replying to you in a thread right now, rather than just chronologically at the bottom like a linear chat such as WhatsApp. Threads make it easier to skim conversations and choose when/if you want to dive into tangents/segways/particular details.

You can also move these threads out into a while new separate conversation if you find a tangent becomes worthy of a whole discussion topic of its own.

Most exciting is the polls - a range of tools for getting advice or reaching consent or even finding a date everyone can do (like Doodle polls, without having to leave Loomio). The consent decision making poll is time limited which gives it gravity, it's very visual and tactile for clarity, you see people's actual reasons for their vote, and when a decision closes, the person who started it is promoted to share the outcome / impact of the decision.

Polls are neatly stored in their own section and it's easy to quickly catch up if you've been away and see instantly what actual decisions have been made that might affect you, and which are still open now for vote casting.

My only big missing thing I think now is a mobile app. Having this would allow Push notifications (smartphone notifications when a message is written or someone tags you.)

I'm looking to use Loomio to invite 'Voice of the UK movement' feedback and suggestions on our XR UK overarching national strategy.

Luke, thanks for the detailed reply.
One question I’m facing is whether to try and encourage my chapter to use Loomio, Discourse, or both.
We currently chat via Keybase teams, share docs on CryptPad, and send a lot of tedious email chains.

I feel like we have a few needs to fill.

1. Better subgroup communication. Say we have folks form a small group around planning for an action. Keybase + email is isn’t working great. The former is too rapid-fire, and the latter gets bogged down with large groups doing reply-all dances. A more persistent threaded conversation like Loomio or Discourse seems like it can fill a role that a traditional listserv (or google group) would serve in this situation — but with more flexibility, searchability etc.. And forget about Google Groups — nobody here wants to touch that.

2. Reaching agreement on proposals that require wide buy-in and discussion. Chapter-wide decisions. Loomio seems like it excels at this. It’s what it was designed for, as you point out.

3. Having a sort of open commons space for people within the group to discuss, plan, congregate etc. Group calendaring. Informal polls. Discourse seems pretty good here. Loomio might work too. F Facebook for this.

So that’s kind of what I’m trying to flesh out. I’m still curious to hear if you all are finding in practice that you are getting good adoption from folks in your groups around Loomio?

I feel like the important, need-serious-votes decisions work best in Loomio, and the more open community knowledge base Q/A / calendar stuff works well in Discourse. Am I nuts for wanting to maybe try both in parallel for our folks?

Sorry if I’m being obtuse / belaboring the point. Thx!!

Hi there -- Symbiosis is working on communications and decision-making platforms and we're looking for more info on Decidim vs. Loomio -- pro's and con's of each. The limit of 1000 people on Loomio has been raised as a concern (a confusing concern to me as I don't know how 1000 people make a decision together except through delegation/confederation). If you have experience or perspective on Decidim I'd be particularly interested in hearing it since I know Loomio has a lot of fans here (but reflection on limitations would be great). https://decidim.org/ Thanks

decidim seems much more directly focused on gov't-style democracy with committees, proposals, mass votes etc. loomio seems designed for cooperative organizations with < about 300 people involved. loomio is simpler -- just focused on decision threads with good ad-hoc voting stuff. we are using it to make decisions in a volunteer organization and it's really nice for that. ie it's good for a do-ocracy, especially if you pair it with a group task management tool like trello.