Struggling with Docker, is there another way?
I have been trying on and off for the last week or so to install Loomio using the docker method, I've put in quite a few hours, and I am finding it frustrating.
I'm an experienced developer and web server admin but I have never used Docker before. When things go wrong I usually know how to start debugging them, but with Docker there is a whole layer in between which I don't understand, and I find it quite hard to accept that I will have to learn about it just to install Loomio. I know it's a useful thing to learn, but I was hoping to get Loomio up and running quickly so as to start using it! A whole array of docker containers linked together is no mean feat to understand.
I get the impression that @robertguthrie is the only person who knows the loomio docker system inside out and is therefore swamped with requests for help, but that you are a busy chap, like the rest of us, and cannot be expected to be there at the beck and call of anyone who attempts installation.
If there was a way of installing it that did not require this extra layer, perhaps people would be able to help each other more, and get help from Stack Overflow and the like.
It's also difficult to make configuration changes - I tried to run it on a different port, but failed. Which means I have to use a whole VPS for this, rather than running it on the same server as another bunch of websites. In fact being forced to use nginx makes this difficult anyway; I have a bunch of apache vhosts and was hoping this would just be another one.
Also, the docker container uses a lot of RAM, which is what drives up the cost of a VPS. So it is costing a lot to run this.
I'm sorry, I realise this probably comes across as a rant, but I think it is important for free software projects to be relatively easy to install, and not to rely on one beleagured person as the font of all knowledge ...
Robert Guthrie Fri 12 Apr 2019 8:32PM
These days I never run any server software without docker. It's the most important server skill I have.
Robert Guthrie Fri 12 Apr 2019 8:53PM
Thanks for taking the time to work on Loomio and tell me about it, I really do want to support you however I can - which is often a little slowly... sorry.
Naomi Fri 12 Apr 2019 9:07PM
Thanks @robertguthrie, I appreciate you taking the time to read my post and give it such a considered answer. I think in a way it comes down to different mindsets. Like you say, it keeps the level of complexity down, but only if everything goes to plan - and then if it doesn't, it suddenly becomes very complicated, and the usual Linux knowledge isn't enough to fix it. I find it's quite unusual for things to "just work" for me - I often end up delving into them for one reason or another - so the inability to (easily) do that is stressful. It's the same way I feel if I ever go near an IPad - I keep hearing how easy they are and how they just work, but they make no sense to me, I'm like "just give me a shell and no-one gets hurt". I guess it's a sense of not being in control.
However, I am already gaining knowledge of Docker from this. which is indeed useful and becoming more and more necessary as it gains popularity.
I will have a look at the development site docs you mention, and may have stuff to add, although it might be another few days before I get a chance to work on it
Robert Guthrie Fri 12 Apr 2019 10:56PM
I would recommend that you try putting the shared server requirement aside, and try setting up loomio on a blank VPS as described, it should only take 30 minutes to an hour.
I totally respect the approach of taking a different path though, that's how I learned everything I know - including the value of just sticking to the path :)
Another really kind and enthusiastic person is wanting to create and manage a set of Loomio debian packages. Is that something that you think would be helpful to you? https://github.com/loomio/loomio/issues/5283
Robert Guthrie · Thu 23 May 2019 8:05PM
Interesting.
CPU power is unlikely to be the issue - RAM possibly. the CSS compilation is a first request only issue too, so after it's compiled it will be fine.
You can set the ENV variable RACK_TIMEOUT_SERVICE_TIMEOUT=30 or more to give the server more time to do work before killing the request.
Yesterday we merged the new client into the master branch, and over the next couple of weeks we'll fine tune it so it's ready for a public beta then replacing the current client. One of the many advantages of the new client are that it can be compiled at docker image build time (before you docker-compose pull the image), so startup time should be only a few seconds.