Loomio
Sun 30 Jan

Burn dates

C Case Public Seen by 102

This year the dates on the tickets show Nest ending Sunday 5th June. The assumption is therefore this is the day most members will leave site, and therefore people are expecting to go to work on Monday.

In 2018 tickets also showed that the end of the event was a Sunday (10th June in that case). The temple burn was held on Sunday night and therefore lots of people (almost certainly including most newbies who didn't know that temple burn is traditionally a Sunday) missed this key community event.

To avoid a similar situation, I propose that that the burns are held Friday and Saturday evenings. (Or alternatively the dates on the tickets be changed to finish on Monday, and this to happen fast as holiday bookings are already going in)

SG

Sam George Tue 22 Feb

I vote for keeping temple burn Sunday. The Saturday night has always been a party night I feel like the contemplative nature of the temple burn doesn’t fit a Saturday night party vibe.

There are extra bank holidays in the week this year which should help with peoples holidays if they need to take Monday off.

That’s my two Penneth anyway x

C

Case Mon 21 Feb

A different suggestion. How about effigy Saturday and Temple at like 1 pm Sunday, before people leave. You can still have the ritualistic and spiritual stuff, but it fits in the tickets. Fire won't look so good, but the temple is less about spectacle and more about contemplation.

PP

Paul Phare Tue 22 Feb

Yes agreed, we made a mistake. The ticket shouldn't have stated the event was ending at 5pm on Sunday as the intention was always to have the Temple burn on Sunday after dark. We then plan to strike the site from Monday onwards and people are always welcome to stay and help

PT

Paul Taylor Tue 22 Feb

Tickets for 2020 listed event end time as Mon 12:00, vs. burns on Saturday and Sunday nights. I think the differential from that to 17:00 Sunday this year is part of what has made people confused.

PP

Paul Phare Mon 21 Feb

The festival always ends on the Sunday, what's not so well known is that people don't have to leave on Sunday night

AP

Ali Puddle Mon 21 Feb

It would need to be handled carefully as it would effectively be changing a product after purchase, people have probably started making decisions based on the date given by the ticket, and that date will remain on the tickets too, with potential for future confusion.

C

Case Mon 21 Feb

Can we change all the comms then please (this is something I've been raising on fb as soon as the dates showing event finishing Sunday was listed). Tickets that say something finishes on Sunday mean people book work on Monday.

PP

Paul Phare Fri 18 Feb

I think regardless of whether people are allowed to strike on Monday, many will want to strike on Sunday and get home for work on Monday. I agree, letting it be known will help people make an informed decision about whether they want to stay for Temple on Sunday - if that's where this ends up.

A

Allan Fri 18 Feb

Thanks @Paul Phare . In that case the solution seems simple - Effigy Sat, Temple Sun & change the end date on the tickets to Mon - or if that's not possible for duration/licencing reasons make VERY clear to everyone via comms that we don't need to be off-site till Mon (or later if they sign-up for Strike).

It may be complicating things too much to add another poll option to retain existing plan of Effigy Sat, Temple Sun & to amend dates on tickets/clarify dates via comms. That said I think it worthwhile to amend ticket dates & clarify via comms as I think there's a bit of a misunderstanding underlying this whole discussion (ie that the event ends Sun & we need to be gone by then).

As you point out this isn't the case I think this whole discussion could be resolved just by letting that be more widely known.

PP

Paul Phare Fri 18 Feb

It's the 2nd one; except we have a few days to fully strike the site after everyone has left on Monday

A

Allan Fri 18 Feb

Just for clarity (as I am not clear on this) what is the situation re last day? Is it:

1) we have to be off site on Sunday, meaning Sunday is strike day & everything/one is down & packed up & off site by end of day Sun;

or 2) that Sun is the last day but folk are still allowed on site for strike on Mon & everyone & thing is off-site end of day Mon.

E

Entropy Sat 12 Feb

I would add Temple on Friday Effigy on Saturday to the poll. It feels Saturday is the day for the Effigy when everybody gets together, even the people who join later, and see it burn. It is like the main event, and then Sunday people pack. It is fine if we move the temple burn, that does not mean we have to move the Effigy day.

FG

Flix Goncalez Wed 23 Feb

Effigy Saturday & Temple Sunday

Personally, Sunday is symbolic, relating to the end of the week, a poignant and significant reference to the final act of a global community in celebration, metaphoric and meditative, it’s ritual, oddly now part of my psyche but somehow this day, importantly connects me to the pattern and Sunday Temple Burn ritual at Blackrock.

R

Roofie Wed 23 Feb

Effigy Saturday & Temple Sunday

There seems to be confusion over the dates of the event. That is what needs addressing, not the format of the event it is in that format for a reason. It has always been a Mon-Mon event and Temple has always burned Sunday. The culture must be preserved.

NS

Nick Staines Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Saturday & Temple Sunday

Having the Temple burn on Sunday works as a great ending to the whole event,

JE

Jen Evans Tue 22 Feb

Effigy Friday & Temple Saturday

I imagine many people (myself included) will need to leave on Sunday to get home for work or other commitments - doing the burns Fri/Sat means everyone can participate and also be around for at least some of strike on the Sunday

PW

Philip Whittaker Tue 22 Feb

Effigy Saturday & Temple Sunday

I'm lucky as I can come off-site Monday, however I appreciate the issue so I also have no problem for the alternative solution.

D

Dani Mon 21 Feb

Effigy Friday & Temple Saturday

With Thursday as a Bank Holiday as well, Friday could easily be a big party night. Do temple burn Saturday at sunset, we can heal and reflect, use that temple energy to be grateful, then turn it around to party town with the weight lifted and a feeling of community connection ❤️ then a nice drive home Sunday afternoon for work on Monday!

C

Case Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Friday & Temple Saturday

I having the temple on Saturday "shortens" the festival by one day the tickets and comms should say that it ends on Monday rather than everyone being off site Sunday as has been communicated. Third option: have the temple burn first

L

Lexy Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Friday & Temple Saturday

Monday is not a bank holiday this year so makes most of Thur/Fri bank holidays. Also I believe Fri also has late licence or at least can be requested in the TEN application.

AF

Alison Forrester Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Saturday & Temple Sunday

Tripping hippies around the fire is dangerous. People tend to have their big trip on Fridays.

PT

Paul Taylor Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Saturday & Temple Sunday

Tickets on Quicket (at least) say the event ends 5pm Sunday, which I think most people have taken to mean 'all off site by this time unless you are assisting with Strike'. Assuming this is untrue based on discussions here, then prefer to stick with the usual days for the burns to fit with late licence etc. Please can Comms push out clarification on when the event ends and update Quicket.

AM

Alex Macklen Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Saturday & Temple Sunday

I don't see a reason to move them. Everyone gets an extra day off which I'll take on Monday and complete strike and head off in the day, its a fairly long drive in my van don't want to drive in the dark. We should all be done by then no problem.

A

Allan Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Saturday & Temple Sunday

Vote changed to Effigy Sat & Temple Sun as we don't actually need to be off-site till Mon. So there doesn't seem now to be a reason to make any change to the usual practice of Temple burn on Sun.

Perhaps we just need to emphasise more the actual dates we need to be off-site inorder to ensure people plan their leaving date & don't mistakenly rush off before the Temple burn.

L

Lucy Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Saturday & Temple Sunday

I’d be ok with either, but my preference is Temple burn on Sun. Sat night is party night :) However, if everyone has to be off site by Sunday, then not many people will be able to make it for the Temple burn as it’ll be a late drive back for a lot of folks… which isn’t fun when you’re hanging. Even if people do take Sunday off work, if there’s nowhere to camp then they’d have to go home anyway. Is there anywhere for people camp on the Sunday night?

PP

Paul Phare Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Saturday & Temple Sunday

I agree with the Links that the party night should be on Saturday with the Effigy Burn and Sunday night Temple as usual. We should make sure newbies understand that this will be happening and they may need to take Monday off work

AP

Ali Puddle Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Friday & Temple Saturday

Am I being bananas, or don't we have to be off site by EOD on the Sunday? Don't understand how we would burn and strike if effigy sat and temple sun?

XD

xavier dubruille Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Saturday & Temple Sunday

EDIT TO EXPAND MY REASONING :

1) Friday is cabaret day!

2) thw jmportance of the temple as a place and not only a burn .... the temple us a place to meditate and also to remember the departed souls (and god knows how many left these last two years, if we burn on friday, it will be only ashes(also bad for really late arrival)

3) quick 'cause limit temple burn is ultimate thing, it is time to recollect all memories and connection made in we.

E

Entropy Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Saturday & Temple Sunday

I would not change the burn day of the Effigy. I would leave that on Saturday. If people do not want to miss the temple burning, maybe the temple can burn on Friday.

LS

Lizzie Shand Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Friday & Temple Saturday

This will allow those who have to work on the Monday to have the full Nest experience.

SF

Sarah Furness Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Friday & Temple Saturday

we can get home for work on monday

RS

Roger Smalley Wed 9 Feb

Effigy Friday & Temple Saturday

So that people who work on Monday won't miss it.

CD

Poll Created Wed 9 Feb

Burn days Closed Tue 1 Mar

Response from Links with regard to changing the days for Effigy and Temple Burn

A discussion was held between the Links to take a view on how the proposal might affect our plans. While we all understand the issue, a number of points in response to the proposal were rasied:

  1. We have a late licence for Saturday night and it's usual a big party night. The Temple Burn is a quiet, contemplative event and usually closes the festival. It might therefore feel a bit odd for people to pick up the party after the Temple Burn.

  2. The proposal will effecitvely shorten the festival by one day

  3. It would provide more people to help with Strike on the Sunday

Please can folks respond to this and it will be picked up again at the next Links meeting

Results

Results Option % of points Voters
Effigy Saturday & Temple Sunday 55.8% 29 NF XD SG NS Y CD PT FE M AM T CH NAW AF J E L JF GF PP A AJ JD PW R SL NJ FG P
Effigy Friday & Temple Saturday 44.2% 23 L E RS LS C A SF JA T CDD N AP DN SB PF A V C JC KA F D JE
Undecided 0% 114 A B JD HB AG MG KM A S P TW IS J S GM A NO SE CM GS S AI X ME D NP G MM A DH NM L S C B L PTC AK KH MH AJ P TO A T SB D EH FM LC AH A ED TC AP DW JC EZ SH FM NH RS L JE NC AM D K SG K KC J ME LJ FP R K ZL EC J P M TS L DU GE C LN LO JF HB VB PT AC D ME MH R T CW EP B G W RN SG T S D JP RG T M KR

52 of 166 people have voted (31%)

PP

Paul Phare Mon 21 Feb

I don't think anyone was told they couldn't stay until Monday, just that the festival finishes on the Sunday, which it does after the Temple Burn usually.

A

Allan Mon 21 Feb

That's fair.

It may be I'm used to amenable employers that I presume such things are easily amendable, though of course that's not true for all.

C

Case Mon 21 Feb

I would argue that the fact that most people do not know we can all stay on site to Monday and will have booked holiday accordingly so will miss the temple burn is a good reason to change dates

A

Allan Tue 1 Feb

Agree with Case. Also good spot, I didn't even look at the dates.

EDIT - Vote changed due to new information. We don't need to be off-site till Mon so I can't now see a reason to change the dates, though we should publicise this fact so people can plan appropriately & don't rush off on Sunday & miss the Temple burn.

SE

Simon Edwards Tue 1 Feb

Agree with Case. It was disappointing to miss the temple burn in 2017 for this reason. I think if you want a solid attendance at the Temple burn then it can't be on strike day. I think with the Thur/Fri being bank holidays we're more likely to see people show up earlier in the week and doing a burn on Fri & Sat is less of an issue.

PP

Paul Phare Mon 31 Jan

Thanks Case, that a good suggestion. We'll discuss at the next meeting on 15th Feb and get back to you. If any other members of the community would like to comment it would be good to hear your thoughts on this