Loomio

Statement on the Babri Masjid judgement today

PP
Pirate Praveen Public Seen by 179

We could just collect good responses from people and echo it (with links) and add our own perspective.

"Listen. Don't despair. We knew this was coming.
This was a purely political judgment made by those in power. It does not change the truth. Truth is eternal and truth always wins.
Whatever has happened, has happened. We know we are right
Let's not be defeated or lose hope because if we do, we are giving them exactly what they want.
Democratic ideals may have taken a beating today but we'll rise again, provided we work towards doing so."

https://mastodon.social/@ParadoxicalPari/103106467727994002

Update: Moved to Associates sub group https://www.loomio.org/d/3nO7zTXx/indian-pirates-statement-on-ayodhya-verdict-of-9th-november-2019-moved-from-main-group-

PP

Pirate Praveen Sat 9 Nov 2019

Another one https://mastodon.social/@Paridhigupta/103106490733364276

"Even though I expected this, my heart breaks. Also the amount of money that will now go into the construction of an ostentatious Temple. Just so tired of tax-payer's money being spent on statues, and temples, rather than malnutrition, stabilisation of economy, and climate control."

MJS

michael john sinclair. Sat 9 Nov 2019

In a thousand years some one wil view the ruins of the Temple and there still will be poor people with Hunger. Ideology without fact based evidence something i dispise.

MS

Milind Singh Sat 9 Nov 2019

It was issue filed in court and got a judgement, what other judgement you expect than the one actually there?

PP

Pirate Praveen Sat 9 Nov 2019

@milindsingh a judgement does not mean it is right or just even if it is the highest court. I hoped for justice, though I knew it won't happen with the current state of our country.

I'd like to quote another comment here https://mastodon.social/@Pandey_priyanka/103107004974127510

"what IF masjid was not demolished ..based on today's judgement would SC have asked govt to demolish it to build the mandir ..."

"what if people start destroying mosques that were built on previous hindu structures, does that then become legal based on today’s judgment? Does that mean destruction of some of our iconic monuments is completely legal?"

"The main beneficiaries of the Supreme Court's verdict on Saturday are organically linked to the main accused in the crime of demolishing the mosque. And that's not good for India."

https://thewire.in/communalism/supreme-court-ayodhya-babri-masjid-ram-janambhoomi

MS

Milind Singh Sat 9 Nov 2019

The answer to your what if, is again a what if the mughals and other Muslim invaders didn't destroyed the 1000s of temples and killed the millions in the name of religion ( which is still going on) have not happened, and there was not need at all for any conflict.
I dont take sides, but a lot of injustice is dobe in this country and the people in majority are none the less victims of there own kind.

If it was an Islamic nation people so called liberals speak nonsense for there own good would have been hanged.

PP

Pirate Praveen Sat 9 Nov 2019

What you are saying is explicitly rejected even by this judgement

V

vik@hamara Sat 9 Nov 2019

I say don't bother to expend further energy, its a divisive distraction used by two sides to extend their ideological arguments of the building that they both say god wants. Expend the energy on talking about air pollution instead it might actually help some people.

PP

Pirate Praveen Sat 9 Nov 2019

So you are okay if more moaques are demolished this way? Do you think right wing will now stop their campaigns once temple is built?

MS

Milind Singh Sat 9 Nov 2019

As if you okay with the 1000s of temple destroyed and built in mosques. No body asked you why there is no temple in madina?

PP

Pirate Praveen Sat 9 Nov 2019

Even if we agree that Babri mosque was built after demolishing a temple, how far back in history do we go? Do we check if the earlier temple was built after demolishing a stupa? Or someone's house?

This is a property dispute, not historical investigation into the first structure that was ever built at the site.

https://mastodon.social/@h_tejas/103108088242933609

MJS

michael john sinclair. Sat 9 Nov 2019

Jeruselam 2.0 ^ its my mountain, no its my mountain, fuck all of them, the mountain belongs to nature and not Humanity.

PP

Pirate Praveen started a proposal Mon 11 Nov 2019

Indian Pirates Statement on Ayodhya Verdict of 9th November 2019 Closed Mon 18 Nov 2019

Outcome
by Pirate Praveen Mon 18 Nov 2019

Since we don't have a consensus here, I will move this proposal to Associates sub group. Moved proposal to https://www.loomio.org/d/3nO7zTXx/indian-pirates-statement-on-ayodhya-verdict-of-9th-november-2019-moved-from-main-group-

We endorse these reactions from a diverse group of people who are outraged by this judgement.

> "Listen. Don't despair. We knew this was coming.
>
> This was a purely political judgment made by those in power. It does not change the truth. Truth is eternal and truth always wins.
>
> Whatever has happened, has happened. We know we are right
>
> Let's not be defeated or lose hope because if we do, we are giving them exactly what they want.
>
> Democratic ideals may have taken a beating today but we'll rise again, provided we work towards doing so."

Source https://mastodon.social/@ParadoxicalPari/103106467727994002

> "Even though I expected this, my heart breaks. Also the amount of money that will now go into the construction of an ostentatious Temple. Just so tired of tax-payer's money being spent on statues, and temples, rather than malnutrition, stabilisation of economy, and climate control."

Source https://mastodon.social/@Paridhigupta/103106490733364276

> "what IF masjid was not demolished ..based on today's judgement would SC have asked govt to demolish it to build the mandir ..."
>
> "what if people start destroying mosques that were built on previous hindu structures, does that then become legal based on today’s judgment? Does that mean destruction of some of our iconic monuments is completely legal?"

Source https://mastodon.social/[[@Pandey_priyanka]]/103107004974127510

> "The main beneficiaries of the Supreme Court's verdict on Saturday are organically linked to the main accused in the crime of demolishing the mosque. And that's not good for India."

Source https://thewire.in/communalism/supreme-court-ayodhya-babri-masjid-ram-janambhoomi

> "Even if we agree that Babri mosque was built after demolishing a temple, how far back in history do we go? Do we check if the earlier temple was built after demolishing a stupa? Or someone's house?
>
> This is a property dispute, not historical investigation into the first structure that was ever built at the site."

Source https://mastodon.social/[[@h_tejas]]/103108088242933609

> To my mind, the court's mandate is not to rule in the interest of peace. It is to rule in the interest of justice. Ensuring peace is the mandate of law enforcement.

Source https://mastodon.social/@MitaliSaran/103112402716560688

> Does it appear as if a majoritarian judgement was delivered within a majoritarian ethos to please the majority? Does it set a precedent? We have an ancient history when entire cities have been built on the ruins of other cities. (Delhi was razed and rebuilt seven times).

Source https://www.hindustantimes.com/analysis/the-ayodhya-verdict-is-this-justice-i-ask-myself/story-krRBa0Sn6kJxTZdFFF5XEP.html

> Roses are Red
>
> Verdicts are Saffron
>
> You can't escape
>
> They'll come for everyone

Source https://mastodon.social/@SSangita/103109564886329416

> So three findings emerge:
>
> 1. That the 1949 installation of idols was illegal
>
> 2. That the 1992 demolition was illegal.
>
> 3. No evidence that Babri masjid was build by demolishing a temple.
>
> Who is the wronged and who is the wrongdoer again?

Source https://mstdn.social/@prasanna_s/103107498062351871

> Orijit Sen says it all.
>
> जिसकी लाठी उसकी भैंस
>
> Might is right.
>
> null

Source https://mstdn.social/@KavitaKrishnan/103108483828905988

> Two mins silence for those who think BJP now is going to start talk about development and economy!

Source https://mastodon.social/@CZubair/103108994459686767

> To liberals who think they're safe,
>
> First they came for the Communists
>
> And I did not speak out
>
> Because I was not a Communist
>
> Then they came for the Socialists
>
> And I did not speak out
>
> Because I was not a Socialist
>
> Then they came for the trade unionists
>
> And I did not speak out
>
> Because I was not a trade unionist
>
> Then they came for the Jews
>
> And I did not speak out
>
> Because I was not a Jew
>
> Then they came for me
>
> And there was no one left
>
> To speak out for me.
>
> --Martin Niemöller

Source: https://mastodon.social/@gaikwadshogun/103109208682346983

Agree - 6
Abstain - 1
Disagree - 1
Block - 0
8 people have voted (4%)
PP

Pirate Praveen
Agree
Mon 11 Nov 2019

It is important we stand up for justice today

V

vik@hamara
Block
Mon 11 Nov 2019

https://mastodon.social/@gaikwadshogun/103109208682346983 I think supporting this comment breaches article 2 of our constitution, we should not hold out any social group and encourage them to walk around with their heads hanging in shame

V

vik@hamara
Agree
Mon 11 Nov 2019

https://mastodon.social/@gaikwadshogun/103109208682346983 I think supporting this comment breaches article 2 of our constitution, we should not hold out any social group and encourage them to walk around with their heads hanging in shame

Have edited the proposal to remove this comment and changed my vote to agree

B

Bady
Agree
Tue 12 Nov 2019

i agree with @vik@hamara's opinion that forcing someone to feel ashamed is anti-constitutional. agreeing with the proposal to publish the statements since it's removed.

A

Akshay
Abstain
Tue 12 Nov 2019

I've not had enough time to read about Ayodhya, Babri Masjid, etc. From my initial impressions, I agree with the idea that democracies should protect everyone and not just the majority. But I won't vote on anything related to Ayodhya/Babri Masjid till I'm better educated. (And that's a hard thing to do given that the events in question happened before I was born, even)

V

Vishnup
Agree
Tue 12 Nov 2019

S

Sharmishtha
Agree
Tue 12 Nov 2019

i wish to stand and make my voice heard using the privileges that most are being denied. the opinion I present today, is on their behalf.

MS

Milind Singh
Disagree
Wed 13 Nov 2019

TMB

Tanzeem Mohammad Basheer
Agree
Sun 17 Nov 2019

PP

Pirate Praveen Mon 11 Nov 2019

@vik@hamara I'm open to removing it https://mastodon.social/@majchowdhury/103107012102323978 let's just wait a day or two to hear what others think about it too.

R

raghukamath Sun 17 Nov 2019

Are we going to formulate our own response. Or are we going to quote the thoughts that people shared on social media?

PP

Pirate Praveen Sun 17 Nov 2019

Quoting is fine I think as they cover important points, but if someone wants to write our own statement that is fine too. Since we don't have a consensus here, we will move the proposal to associates sub group after the poll closes.

People voting here don't need to agree to anything to participate in the main group, can be used to get wider input and sometimes we get consensus here itself but cannot let random people block decisions. But associate sub group is for people who publicly state their agreement to Indian Pirates constitution and if we can't get consensus even there, we move to permanent members group that is the final level.

PP

Pirate Praveen Thu 21 Nov 2019

We got consensus in Associates group and we can now publish it in our website.

B

Bady Fri 22 Nov 2019

statement published on the website: https://pirates.org.in/statements/ayodhya-verdict