Loomio
Thu 12 Aug

Quarterly Project 2021Q4

CM
Cj Malone Public Seen by 79

Anyone have any thoughts on topics for the next quarter? It'll be October/November/December so probably best to have a topic that we can do remote, with the colder weather. There are some good topics mentioned in the past [1] [2], that we may want to do this time. We could also revisit old projects if there is interest in doing that.

JN

Jez Nicholson Fri 13 Aug

I've got an interest in waste and recycling. Where does my rubbish go to? Where are all the recycling points? What items does my local tip accept?

CM

Cj Malone Fri 13 Aug

At some point we should revisit retail. My local council has started updating Food Hygiene Ratings again, so that could be a help.

GMD

Would "places of worship" be of interest?
I'm making a pair of videos about them (for an audience of not-yet-OSMers) and helpfully I've found several examples missing from OSM. There's possibly some list of churches, mosques, etc, that we could use to find them.
My videos are scheduled to be online Sep/Oct.

EB

Edward Bainton Sun 15 Aug

The GRO has an OGL list of registered places of worship (these are exempt from rates and have a special charity status), but many places of worship will not be registered as such because the benefits are marginal - the legislation is very 19C.

[Edit: quick check of my home town is encouraging: probably 80pc of mosques are registered with the GRO.]

http://mosques.muslimsinbritain.org/ is the most complete and reliable ground-sourced data on mosques that I'm aware of. I think SK53 may have interacted with the compiler in the past (Tariq Maqdood I believe, but I may have misunderstood).

I've long meant to investigate how far the data could be imported into the map, if he's happy to release it. A difficulty may be that it's entangled with Google data. Perhaps he could be persuaded (and assisted) to use OSM as the base-map.

CM

Cj Malone Sat 4 Sep

Pubs could potentially get more engagement than previous QPs.

EB

Edward Bainton Sat 4 Sep

Agree. Maybe team up with CAMRA?

One thought: lots are mothballed atm. I don't know if that matters, but could see lots of 'pub closed' responses that may be inaccurate if they reopen soon? on the other hand lots of those will presumably stay closed (beer sales down 10% on 2019) and become something else eventually.

CM

Cj Malone Sat 4 Sep

Hmmm, where I live it seems pretty clear if a pub is closed for good by now. Is that not a fair assumption for other parts of the country?

EB

Edward Bainton Sun 5 Sep

Quite possibly. Round here I know of two that were boarded up, carparks defended with concrete blocks, that have recently (last month or two) reopened. Maybe that's just the normal economics of the sector.

In any case, it's just a thought for consideration: the trade-off between data that's a bit ropey, and lots of new mappers, is an easy one for me.

CM

Cj Malone Wed 15 Sep

Does anyone reading this know anyone at CAMRA? Teaming up/getting access to this data would be helpful.

EL

Ed Loach Wed 15 Sep

I doubt they'd release it as the data also feeds the Good Beer Guide and the Good Beer Guide apps, which they want you to buy and/or subscribe to, and they've pursued other sites for copyright violation where pub descriptions and photos have been scraped in the past. Having said that, I collect and maintain the data for our branch area so locally I already have the local knowledge to update our pubs (and I use OSM on the branch website). Looking at some of the posts above which I'd missed previously, a number of pubs have changed hands since the start of the pandemic, but most have re-opened though some with shorter hours or fewer real ales. One remains closed after the landlord told them at short notice that they wouldn't be re-opening as they'd planned, and another remains closed and we're not sure what is happening with it - it was listed for sale before the pandemic and isn't now, but it might have been withdrawn from sale just as much as it might have sold. Another closed during the pandemic but has just been bought by the local community who hope to re-open it later this month, and another applied for change of use to residential and had it turned down but has appealed - and has re-opened while they are appealing and refusing to talk to the local community group who also want to save the pub by purchasing it at a more realistic price.

Edit: rather than get the WhatPub data perhaps contacting CAMRA about contacting the branch pubs officers (or pub database coordinators, or whatever the current term is) about helping them improve the mapping of their pubs might work. CAMRA want to promote supporting pubs, so being able to say they are helping people find them without it costing them anything might play well.

CM

Cj Malone Wed 15 Sep

Fair enough, we'll just collect the data ourselves, and we can always use FHRS Open Data for address data and to help with identifying closed/new pubs.

FHRS Open Data currently lists 53,958 pub, bar or nightclub. OSM has 39,183 pubs, 5,509 bars and 1,060 nightclubs (=45,752). So we are surprisingly close with 8,206 less, but we can close that gap.

R

RobJN Wed 15 Sep

You could ask for data from the owner of some of the big brands. M&B own quite a few brands that I'm sure you'll recognise: https://www.mbplc.com/ourbrands/

CM

Cj Malone Thu 16 Sep

I've already collected (copyrighted) data from some of them and got it into Chain Reaction. If this becomes the QP, I'll put the rest at the top of my TODO list and request a copyright waver.

CM

Cj Malone started a ranked choice Wed 15 Sep

QP 2021Q4 Closed Wed 22 Sep

Outcome
by Cj Malone Mon 4 Oct

Waste and Recycling won this round. I'm look forward to seeing what you all map.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Quarterly_Project/2021/2021_Q4_Project:_Waste_and_Recyling

What topic do you want to focus on for the next 3 months?

1st 2nd 3rd 4th Total
 
Waste and Recycling 14 7 8 4 97
 
Retail 8 10 7 8 84
 
Pubs 5 9 15 4 81
 
Places of Worship 6 7 3 17 68
T

trigpoint Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Retail
 
2 - Pubs
 
3 - Waste and Recycling
 
4 - Places of Worship

Retail in particular has had a rough time over the last 18 months, and mappers have been avoiding many such areas. It is important that we see what is there as we probably have a very outdated map in that category

J

joeldn Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Waste and Recycling
 
2 - Places of Worship
 
3 - Pubs
 
4 - Retail

ordered in roughly ascending order of climate damage

J

jambamkin Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Waste and Recycling
 
2 - Places of Worship
 
3 - Retail
 
4 - Pubs

Just think 'recycling' is more public good

MA

Mat Attlee Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Waste and Recycling
 
2 - Places of Worship
 
3 - Pubs
 
4 - Retail

Focus on the environment but also aware lots of places of worship aren't mapped

GMD
 
1 - Places of Worship
 
2 - Pubs
 
3 - Waste and Recycling
 
4 - Retail

By the time this poll closes, my rather detailed tutorial on mapping Places of Worship will be live on Mapper Diaries.

I'm equally happy "surveying" pubs. 😆

AA

Andy Allan Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Retail
 
2 - Waste and Recycling
 
3 - Places of Worship
 
4 - Pubs

retail has high turnover and is good to revisit regularly.

AR

Andrew Ross Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Pubs
 
2 - Retail
 
3 - Waste and Recycling
 
4 - Places of Worship

Significant changes in pubs and retail since COVID

S

SK53 Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Places of Worship
 
2 - Waste and Recycling
 
3 - Retail
 
4 - Pubs

Open Data file found by eteb3 helps with former which is also an area of POIs still with lacunae. Retail & Pubs have been done to death as projects & dont work at all for areas which are well mapped, whereas locating minor churches, mosques etc is still worth doing

PB

Paul Berry Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Waste and Recycling
 
2 - Retail
 
3 - Pubs
 
4 - Places of Worship

There was a brief burst of interest around recycling centres back in March so we should look to continue this.

RAC

Richard Alexander Cook Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Places of Worship
 
2 - Pubs
 
3 - Retail
 
4 - Waste and Recycling

I think we need some on the ground mapping this quarter, Places of Worship will hopefully clear up a few nameless objects (Robert Whittaker's site says there are 3926 nameless). Pubs and Retail might still be a bit changeable, but FHRS might help there. Waste and Recycling needs a better explanation of the task.

JN

Jez Nicholson Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Waste and Recycling
 
2 - Places of Worship
 
3 - Pubs
 
4 - Retail

Have been building uk.wastemap.org with others and has sparked my interest in all things waste processing

TS

Tony Shield Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Retail
 
2 - Pubs
 
3 - Waste and Recycling
 
4 - Places of Worship

There has been high rates of churn in retail recently. Can we have clarity of marking empty shops - node with shop=vacant??

EL

Ed Loach Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Retail
 
2 - Waste and Recycling
 
3 - Places of Worship
 
4 - Pubs

Ranked based on what needs most work manually - lots of retail churn over the pandemic so lots of resurveying needed.

EB

Edward Bainton Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Pubs
 
2 - Retail
 
3 - Waste and Recycling
 
4 - Places of Worship

My hunch is pubs stand the best chance of engagement from people who aren't regular mappers: lots of folk are concerned at their local eatery closing up, and would be pleased to get it on the map as soft advertising if it's still going.

Retail needs lots of ground survey, and there's a lot of churn to deal with.

Places of worship would be better done when/if the GRO dataset becomes usable.

JG

Jack Gilmore Mon 20 Sep

 
1 - Waste and Recycling
 
2 - Retail
 
3 - Pubs
 
4 - Places of Worship

Have been working on building https://openwastemap.uk and it would be great to see some more data updated on OSM to update the map

AB

Andrew Black Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Retail
 
2 - Pubs
 
3 - Waste and Recycling
 
4 - Places of Worship

A lot of change to retail during COVID era. Now may be time things are stabilising.

YP

Yorvik Prestigitor Wed 15 Sep

 
1 - Places of Worship
 
2 - Waste and Recycling
 
3 - Pubs
 
4 - Retail

For future votes it would be useful to know what resources are available to support different project options.
Places of worship like the more obvious churches and mosques etc are often useful navigational landmarks.
Waste and recycling are unlikely to be particularly subject to any immediate changes while pubs and retail are in a mild state of turmoil following pandemic (on top of longer term changes of shopping and drinking habits)

DX

Denise Xenia Wed 15 Sep

I’ll participate