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[post] Pour une consultation populaire à Ottignies-Louvain-la-Neuve

VD
Valerie D. Public Seen by 535

A group of citizens in Ottignies-Louvain-la-Neuve has just started collecting signatures to demand a "consultation" about the expansion of the mall in LLN. The pirates of the city, with agreement of the BW crew, would like to post their support to this initiative. We support it because it is an act of participative democracy (and actually the OLLN pirates are members of that group).

The website of the initiative:
https://mieuxquelextensiondelesplanadeblog.wordpress.com/

I can make a blog post based on their "communiqué de presse". But first I want to get the agreement of other pirates that are not from the crew.

Do you agree on posting such a message?

Article published : https://fr.pirateparty.be/vers-la-consultation-populaire-et-au-dela/

J

Josse Sat 14 Jan 2017

I like the idea, but would you write more than just "we support the initiative" and explain more about why it is a good example of why people should be involved in the process? I am working on a text on "What is a good democracy?" in general also. (I will create a separate post for that)

VD

Valerie D. Sat 14 Jan 2017

I wanted to write a few lines on why this matters for pirates... and our point of view of what can be done with it. Ok? Then I could refer to your post and vice-versa?

J

Josse Sun 15 Jan 2017

We can see if it makes sense to link afterwards. Go ahead!

VD

Valerie D. Sun 15 Jan 2017

I started drafting here:
https://mypads.framapad.org/p/consultation-populaire-nbix3780
But I am lacking time
If any ideas, for instance with finding arguments on the reasons why this is an interesting political act, please go ahead !

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Sun 15 Jan 2017

I agree that you post an article on the website about that.

It's an opportunity to use your citizen power, and if this power is not used, it's automatically lost.
No matter how strong the opposition, or how useless this might be : you have the right to express your opposition, to be heard. Other citizens might feel empowered by seeing what you do and take the same attitude, now and on other issues.

About this, but it's an argument on the project not on the "why this is an interesting political act" : http://liegeaucoeur.be/image/155438682237
"Pour ce qui est des grands centres commerciaux, Jean-Claude Marcourt estime que la Wallonie est arrivée à saturation"

VD

Valerie D. Mon 16 Jan 2017

version 1 is on the pad.... you can shoot!
https://mypads.framapad.org/p/consultation-populaire-nbix3780

@vanecx thanks for the article :thumbsup: FYI eventually I did not use it because I decided not to talk about mall as such, but to focus on the democratical act.

PD

Pascal Dk Mon 16 Jan 2017

Je découvre le sujet (en dehors de ce qu'on m'en a déjà dit)

Ce qui serait vraiment cool c'est d'avoir un pool juridique capable de vous aider, on l'a pas, donc reste que vous... et les gens d'OLLN.

Bref, y'a une question locale, des citoyens au taquet, et des pirates... GO FOR IT !!

VD

Valerie D. Tue 17 Jan 2017

hi again, version 2 online, more "political".
Challenge: to put it online in French before this evening because this evening there is a Conseil Communal where they will discuss this consultation. I would prefer to have the message online before that... :sweat_smile:

VD

Valerie D. Tue 17 Jan 2017

The article is online on the FR website, but it does not appear yet... not sure why.

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Tue 17 Jan 2017

I don't see the article anywhere in the admin dashboard

VD

Valerie D. Wed 18 Jan 2017

indeed, I tought I had access to the wordpress... but it was the old, the piratelab site :cold_sweat: .... thanks to tierce for having posted the article on the right site.

H

HgO Tue 17 Jan 2017

Thank you @valeried and all those who helped :) That's a really good article ;)
I guess you fixed the problem, since I can see the article published there: https://fr.pirateparty.be/vers-la-consultation-populaire-et-au-dela/

Do you think it'd be useful to translate it ?

J

Josse Tue 17 Jan 2017

I would like to continue to have it in different languages, although it is LLN local. Maybe I need to admit the quality of our translations is not always the best, but then we might tell which one is in the "original" language. The English pages get more attention as everyone gets there first.

VD

Valerie D. Wed 18 Jan 2017

I will translate myself asap in EN but I cannot in NL. Thanks in advance to the volunteer.

VD

Valerie D. Thu 19 Jan 2017

It's meeeee agaaiinn :upside_down_face:
Here is a first draft of translation to EN: https://mypads.framapad.org/p/traduction-billet-consultation-en-qu1kqh7dm
I'll post it tomorrow evening. I have not re-read myself yet so it must be in need of a good clean for more fluency and correctness...

If someone can proof-read, thanks a lot

J

Josse Sat 21 Jan 2017

Did some small adjustments to the English text and translated in Dutch. Maybe one of you can can re-assemble it and put it online? Last sentence stays a bit weird to me. And always with these articles, I would like to make it less naive: if you say something like "democracy is too much overtaken by money", you could also say: "Money is politics too. Neoliberal assumptions are made to take over control and explain it ... Right now, it risks to imply : "the liberal market is bad" (putting us in the left-naive corner instead of the center-progressive) while it needs to be democratically controlled in the correct way.

TF

Thierry Fenasse Sat 21 Jan 2017

I will do i this Saturday afternoon or evening for EN and NL.
Thanks for the translations ! :heart:

TF

Thierry Fenasse Sat 21 Jan 2017

Done :

If you find something to improve or change, do not hesitate to do it or ask here.

VD

Valerie D. Sun 22 Jan 2017

eh beh merci !!! :thumbsup:

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Fri 24 Feb 2017

Sixtine van Outryve d'Ydewalle
Chercheuse en théorie du droit à l'UCL

Opinion

24/02/17 à 07:55 - Mise à jour à 07:54

La consultation populaire: entre risques d'instrumentalisation politique et opportunités démocratiques

Dans le dernier épisode de la saga " Esplanade : s'étendra/s'étendra pas ? ", il est question d'une consultation populaire, sollicitée par une plateforme composée de vingt-deux associations locales. Le conseil communal d'Ottignies-Louvain-la-Neuve (OLLN) a décidé d'organiser cette consultation fin mai, et celui-ci demandera donc aux citoyens et citoyennes de la commune d'exprimer leur avis sur une éventuelle extension du centre commercial de l'Esplanade.

http://www.levif.be/actualite/belgique/la-consultation-populaire-entre-risques-d-instrumentalisation-politique-et-opportunites-democratiques/article-opinion-619771.html

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Wed 22 Mar 2017

Consultation sur l'extension de l'Esplanade à LLN: la pétition qui change tout

17 signatures de plus que ce qu'il fallait. La plateforme citoyenne a atteint le quota requis pour obtenir l'organisation d'une consultation populaire à propos de l'extension de l'Esplanade. L'échevin de la participation, Michel Beaussart l'a annoncé ce mardi soir au conseil communal d'Ottignies. Une nouvelle qui chamboule les plans du conseil communal. La ville annule "sa" consultation de la population prévue sur deux jours, les samedi 20 et dimanche 21 mai. Elle lance par contre la procédure de consultation populaire prévue dans le code wallon de la démocratie locale.

http://www.rtbf.be/info/regions/detail_consultation-sur-l-extension-de-l-esplanade-a-lln-la-petition-qui-change-tout?id=9560879

H

HgO Wed 22 Mar 2017

Ouaaaah :o :D Félicitations les gens !!! \o/ Il faut fêter ça, non ?! :) (je garde le sens des priorités )

Est-ce qu'on mettrait une mise à jour à la fin de l'article ? ou vous voulez en créer un nouveau pour annoncer cette victoire ?

J

Josse Fri 24 Mar 2017

discutons au piratelab

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Sun 4 Jun 2017

Enquête : 333.000 euros de rab pour le chef cab

Les dossiers secrets de Louvain-La-Neuve

Médor a découvert que l’actuel chef de cabinet du ministre wallon de l’Aménagement du Territoire Carlo Di Antonio a empoché jusqu’à 105 000 euros par an pour un petit job complémentaire. Il s’agit de surveiller le suivi d’un dossier auquel le CDH et l’UCL tiennent très très fort : la construction prochaine d’un centre pour élites sportives à Louvain-La-Neuve. Dans la cité universitaire, l’UCL décide, le CDH facilite, les promoteurs déroulent et… les habitants sont consultés quand les grues pointent déjà.

https://medor.coop/fr/article/333000-euros-de-rab-pour-le-chef-cab/