Loomio
Wed 13 Jan 2016

Rushkoff: Rebooting work: Programming the Economy for People

ST
Stacco Troncoso Public Seen by 484

Doug Rushkoff was kind enough to let us publish this, it's a great, concise read.

"Digital and robotic technologies offer us both a bounty of productivity as well as welcome relief from myriad repeatable tasks. Unfortunately, as our economy is currently configured, both of these seeming miracles are also big problems. How do we maintain market prices in a world with surplus productivity? And, even more to the point, how do we employ people when robots are taking all the jobs?"

Link: Rebooting work: Programming the Economy for People

WO

wouter@freeknowledge.eu Wed 13 Jan 2016

great article! thanks, @staccotroncoso !

JH

Jake Hansen Thu 14 Jan 2016

Yes, interesting topic! An attempt at answering your questions (by asking more questions;):
1. "How do we maintain market prices in a world with surplus productivity?"
a. What does "surplus productivity" mean in this context? Referring to how surplus is generally understood in economic theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_surplus
b. Basically speaking, market prices are the result of demand and supply, it is a result, not a cause. So in that sense I do not understand the "maintain" part of "maintain market prices". Maintain demand and supply in some way then?

  1. "How do we employ people when robots are taking all the jobs?" a. There is a question: why should we employ people? Just go home and relax! ;) b. I believe the more fundamental question here is: (X) do we require pretty much every human being to produce value (and consequently earn money) for some part of their lives to have the right to live? (Y) Or do we allow larger groups of people or perhaps everyone not to produce value and still continue to live? I feel that this is a fundamental choice with consequences on how to set up 'the system' accordingly. Remark: at the moment we have of course people who do not produce value and hence 'work' at all, but that is only possible because the majority is working and can then support them. In the case the robots come, the idea is that this will shift. c. With (X): the challenge is to 'monetize' value as much as possible, so it stays or becomes part of the economic system, so you can trade and earn money. See Jaron Lanier's book "Who owns the future?" about how this is going into the wrong direction at the moment: value is in some industries largely 'demonetized', preventing people to earn money while they do deliver value. d. With (Y): the question that comes to mind is, how do we decide who gets to relax and who has to work? Can everyone decide that for themselves, and will that work out? A 'basic income' perhaps that everyone gets regardless, with which you can get by and if you want more stuff, you can add value and earn?
DR

Douglas Rushkoff Thu 14 Jan 2016

Yeah - some of these answers are in the piece itself (it's linked). And the rest are in my book, coming in March. Lanier gets close, but I'm actually more interested in taking activity off the books than putting it all back on. With a basic income guarantee, we could start looking at doing something other than monetizing value, which can create other problems.

JH

Jake Hansen Fri 15 Jan 2016

Alright, interesting. So does this mean you want to abandon the concept of trade altogether? As in: you have something of value that I would like to have and vice versa, so let's trade? If so, does that mean you will abandon ownership in the generic sense as well? Sounds like a challenging new system! :) Good luck with writing your book.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Fri 15 Jan 2016

No - not at all! Lanier's proposal is to take things that are not valued monetarily now, and put them on the books. He's hoping people's social media profiles can be monetized by users instead of just the advertisers. My sense is that turning our social transactions into profit opportunities could change the nature of our social lives.

JH

Jake Hansen Fri 15 Jan 2016

Aha, ok. So as I understand your proposal is more nuanced: leave some things of value to be traded for money, other things of value exchange should become or be kept demonetized.

What Lanier is saying I think is that the problem is not that advertisers benefit, but that the web platforms monetize the value that users give away for free (or at least for a non-monetary small compensation). As I understand he does not only talk about social media profiles, but also other valuable products/content like documents, photos, music, being shared/distributed on-line, with the assumption that this will expand to other industries/professions like doctors and drivers.

TD

Thomas Dönnebrink Thu 21 Apr 2016

I guess what we should overcome is the tit-for-tat trade market logic which in our current extractive, explpitive system works like: "Give as little as possible and take as much as you can" (including taking it from current and past nature (fossile fuels), other people and future generations) we have to get to a system where everybody can, is allowed and is also intrinsicly motivated to "give what one can and take what one needs". The first is substractive "I/Me/Mine culture" that doesn't work in the long run while the other is sustainable "We/Us/Our culture".

DU

[deactivated account] Thu 21 Apr 2016

Regarding this "tit-for-tat" mindset, I suggest this book that I am reading nowadays: Prisoners of Reason. Her historical analysis of how the neo-liberal narrative of "sucking all you can" has been built and reproduced is quite interesting.

WO

wouter@freeknowledge.eu Fri 15 Jan 2016

the monetisation of a growing part of our live is seen by many as one of the problems of the neoliberal form of capitalism. Paul Mason is his last book, Postcapitalism, analyses the economic history and the emergence of the information economy, which causes its own collapse as peers can and are increasingly producing commons based alternatives.
Looking forward to your book, Douglas!

BH

Bob Haugen Fri 15 Jan 2016

@douglasrushkoff - thanks for popping in on Loomio! A pleasant surprise.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Fri 15 Jan 2016

A pleasure.

DS

Danyl Strype Mon 18 Jan 2016

I've always been in favour of what is now being called "degrowth", decoupling "value" from monetary representation. After all, as feminist economists like Prue Hyman have been pointing out for years some of the most valuable work done in society, such as managing a household and caring for children, is only recognized by the money economy when someone from outside the household is doing it as a job. I'm not against money and markets. As David Graeber points out in 'Debt', they are technologies that have emerged in many different times and places to facilitate exchange between strangers. But I'm all for finding non-monetary ways to recognise and reward people's work, while still keeping money around as just one platform among many for facilitating trade, just as FarceBook is (or should be) just one platform among many for social networking. In other words, we can continue to produce and enjoy values as a societies, without "economic growth" as measured in money.

What to do about employment is perhaps the critical problem of the current transition, and I'm thrilled to learn @douglasrushkoff is writing a book on it (I really enjoyed Life Inc.). I've read a number of good books that address these issues, such as 'No More Throwaway People' by TimeBank founder Edgan Cahn, and 'Free' by Wired editor Chris Anderson (although I don't agree with his pro-capitalist conclusions his analysis is insightful), and some I've yet to read, such as 'The Wealth of Networks' by Yochai Benkler, and 'The Zero Marginal Cost Economy' by Jeremy Rifkin.

JH

Jake Hansen Fri 4 Mar 2016

Last weekend I stumbled upon the book Throwing rocks at the Google bus (and bought it). Only then I realised it was this Rushkoff I/we were conversing with here. The guy that changed my beliefs in a fundamental way with Life Inc. I guess saying "I am really bad with names" does not quite cut it this time ;). My apologies for any stupid things I may have said (but do not know about). Going to read the rest of the book now...

DS

Danyl Strype Wed 9 Mar 2016

Really looking forward to getting hold of this book. Just read a CNET interview with Doug about it, with included this gem of a quote:

The worst problem is that [the Google Bus] epitomizes the way that digital companies extract value without distributing wealth. They're taking money and value away from us and storing it in share price.

EDIT: I've started just reading 'The Internet is not the Answer' by Silicon Valley entrepreneur Andrew Keen, author of 'The Cult of the Amateur', and harsh critic of internet evangelism. Keen identifies many of the same problems Doug talks about - domination by Big Data companies, panopticon surveillance etc - but makes the same mistake Andrew Curtis does in his BBC doco 'All Watched Over By Machines of Loving Grace'. Both fail to distinguish between genuine digital libertarianism, as represented by free code software, Wikipedia, CreativeCommons, BitTorrent, Loomio etc, and the corporatists using libertarian language as a smokescreen to defend their pursuit of their own personal and commercial self-interest (AirBnB, Uber etc), as identified by Yochai Benkler in his talk to the CreativeCommons Summit 2014.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Fri 4 Mar 2016

So glad you found it organically! And you couldn't say any stupid thing to me that I couldn't say right back.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Mon 18 Apr 2016

This seems like the best thread to ask what's best to do about the feedback generated by the Throwing Rocks book. I'm getting maybe a dozen emails a day from people wanting to know what to do now. Towns wanting to develop alt currencies. Farmers wanting to network and establish guilds. Companies wanting to switch to platform coop. Corporations looking to transition from capital gains to dividend models. Students wanting to graduate and create their own companies. Traditional corps looking to choose either a multi-purpose or benefit corp structure. An electric company looking to develop a better model for smart grid contributions. And so on.

Basically, these are people, municipalities, and companies in need of cooperative enterprise expertise. Not only can't I do it all, but I'm not qualified to do it all. And while the solution set may be made up of similar items, a distributed economy means that they will be executed differently in different situations. There's no one-size-fits-all PDF for this.

So, either there's some "place" I should refer everyone to - or I need to create some sort of "angie's list" of reputable alt business consultants.

RDB

Richard D. Bartlett Mon 18 Apr 2016

I just set up http://throwingrocks.loomio.org

I'm happy to co-host that space with you if you're keen?

G

Graham Thu 21 Apr 2016

What's needed here is the Open Cooperative Development Agency (OCDA) that Michel Bauwens talks about and which you can see in the video clip at http://p2pfoundation.net/Main_Page

Our attempt to progress that concept, which we styled as an 'Innovation Cooperative', but which effectively fulfils the role of the OCDA is outlined at http://networks.coop/innovation-cooperative

We produced a much more detailed paper on the whole concept, and although the core thinking in that remains solid, much of the discussion around those ideas is looking rather outdated given the substantial changes in the interim.

The need for this OCDA is not going to go away. Indeed, as more and more people like @douglasrushkoff set out the arguments, demand is only going to increase. As can be seen from the diagram in the video clip referenced above, the OCDA is an underpinning chunk of infrastructure, and as such I'd argue that its establishment is a mission critical task. Without an effective OCDA we'll continue to see the fragmented approach that characterises much of what's happened to date.

I believe it requires serious financial support in order to make it real. Back in 2008 we estimated about $100,000 to prototype and run on a very lean basis for a year or so. In today's money that more like $200,000. Once established and with traction it could be financially self-sustaining. Indeed that is a key design element. I'm very happy to collaborate to make the OCDA real, and enter into serious discussions with potential partners who have access to the resources to help move this forward.

(The reason I qualify the offer is that I've spent many hundreds of hours involved in discussions with well intentioned folks who aren't serious and who aren't able to bring serious resources to bear, and to be honest, whilst some of them have had good ideas, it's not been a good use of my time.)

PBH

Paul B. Hartzog Wed 29 Jun 2016

Hey, Doug (@douglasrushkoff), we keep ending up in the same places! No surprise. FWIW, I have started connecting networks and commons-builders here in Asheville, NC.

I could use some advice on gathering community leaders together for a meeting where I can share what I've learned from Ann Arbor and Madison (and others). Any advice? :-)

BH

Bob Haugen Mon 18 Apr 2016

@douglasrushkoff - that's a really interesting problem.

I am not a reputable or even disreputable alt business consultant. We've been developing software for alt economy networks for several years, but I still consider it all to be working prototypes rather than scalable systems for general use by whoever. There are also many other groups that are creating related software, and some organizations that have some experience in this terrain: Sensorica, Enspiral, RobinHood Coop, Backfeed, and D-Cent come to mind immediately, but I know more exist. Which is sortof a problem, because we are all developing variations of the same system.

Re alt business consultants, I think Enspiral and RobinHood aspire to do that kind of thing. Steve Bosserman might be an individual addition to the mix.

But it seems like a list that the P2P Foundation could collect.

RD

Richard Dillon Tue 19 Apr 2016

On the Fairmondo UK platform
https://fairmondo-uk.sharetribe.com/en
we have included a link on the menu tab to Cooperatives UK's new support service for new and.existing coops
http://www.uk.coop/the-hive/
Our hope is that the marketplace will identify opportunities for new products and services for the cooperative economy

G

Graham Tue 19 Apr 2016

Great to learn that the book is generating lots of inspiration to action. Whilst there are lots of helpful people out there with great expertise in this field they aren't perhaps as visible as they could be.

I know plenty of good highly skilled people in the UK in this sector and would be very happy to facilitate connections.

For my own part I'm really interested to connect with farmers that are interested in doing things differently. At Ooooby (https://ooooby.org) we're building a global #platformcoop style multistakeholder social business and want farmers and growers everywhere to get involved. We're already in NZ, AUS and California with a multi-millon dollar turoinver, and working on UK and Malaysia currently.

ST

Stacco Troncoso Tue 19 Apr 2016

We (the P2P Foundation) do have a platform in mind in the near/mid term which would serve two main purposes:

1) Provide simple explanations of the Commons and P2P Economics :

  • how they could revolutionize our socioeconomic system
  • how they represent a realistic, achievable alternative to capitalism
  • promoting Open Cooperativism as a step forward for the cooperative movement

2: Indexing all commons and P2P market initiatives, with a short description and a point of contact for each. (It would be an index, NOT a market, so it's compatible with all your "Fairs" (Mondos, Markets, etc)

The Internet of Ownership is already cataloguing these. For the time being we are developing protocols to make it really ease for people to contribute future listings for this platform in the Commons Transition Wiki. To be clear, the final platform wouldn't be a wiki, but something more akin to the Commons Transition site.

TD

Thomas Dönnebrink Wed 20 Apr 2016

Dear @douglasrushkoff: I support Trebor/Nathan with #PlatformCoop in Europe. Can I help?
Attended #PlatformCoop Conference @NewSchool co-presenting with Michel Bauwens:
http://platformcoop.net/schedule/special-lunch-session-with-michel-bauwens

Summary of last #PlatformCoopBerlin Event in March - also with Michel Bauwens
http://de.slideshare.net/doennebrink/platform-cooperativism-60904094,
@TDoennebrink

WO

wouter@freeknowledge.eu Thu 21 Apr 2016

Hi @douglasrushkoff, your question as to where to refer to is a very important one. It is especially tricky as commons-based community projects are decentralised by nature, so we haven't got any central space to refer to. That said, here are a few initiatives that converge various sectorial movements and could be a good starting point:

We'll need to advance building decentralised platforms that interoperate and provide quicker access to all these collective resources....

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Mon 25 Apr 2016

Graham - what's your email? I can connect you with the American farmers' network looking for help/mechanisms.

G

Graham Tue 26 Apr 2016

@douglasrushkoff you can reach me at graham@networks.coop

DS

Danyl Strype Wed 27 Apr 2016

@douglasrushkoff you have clearly hit a nerve with this latest book, which is great. Three people you and @graham2 might benefit from talking to are permaculture movement founders Bill Mollison and David Holmgren, and Transition Towns founder Rob Hopkins. They all have relevant experience in scaling up decentralized, global movements, without the need for a highly centralized, not-for-profit body running everything, by empowering every student to become a teacher (permaculture), and integrating with existing social structures to create community-driven projects on the ground (transition).

EDIT: I love the concept of the OCDA. I think it would be worth having a skim over Tazia Gaisford's Masters thesis, 'An Alternative to Development Framework: A Study of Permaculture and Anarchism in Global Justice Movements in New Zealand', for some ideas about how to make it work in practice, and especially how to make it scale.

DS

Danyl Strype Sat 30 Apr 2016

There are two competing considerations regarding the Open Cooperative Development Agency (OCDA) mentioned here by @graham2. One is the concern that Graham raises about launching too soon, being unable to perform to expectations, and risking damage to the credibility of the concept, which is a valid one.

However, there is a great quote about how all complex systems evolve from simple systems, and starting a new thing requires creating the simplest possible version that can work (MVP or "Minimum Viable Product" in StartupSpeak), and scaling up from there. The other consideration, is the risk of trying to wait until the right moment, only to find that was actually now, when there is a wave of enthusiasm for change and a willingness to experiment, and we missed an opportunity. No doubt other waves will come, but I think its worth doing everything we can to surf the current one, and learn from all the mistakes that get made, so we can perform even better when the next wave comes.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Sat 30 Apr 2016

Right. Chobani ran with my suggestion to distribute 10% of shares to their workers before their IPO. That's a pretty big company taking a pretty big step. Yes, it's in response to a PR scandal about GMOs, but still.

It may be less about creating an agency than offering the mechanisms.

DS

Danyl Strype Sat 30 Apr 2016

That's a big company taking a step, but I don't know that it's a big step. I'm reminded of the comment in 'Companies We Keep' by John Abrams that giving employees an ownership stake without giving them workplace democracy is like selling someone a car but not giving them the keys. A lot of tech workers were given shares in lieu of pay during the DotCom bubble and it didn't work out so well for them. Keep in mind that if people like Nicole Foss are right, another such crash is coming, probably a worse one.

I agree though that an easily navigable set of How-Tos is a more achievable immediate goal than bootstrapping an ambitious new organisation. There is heaps of relevant information on the P2P Foundation wiki, with links to more, but it's not what I'd call easily-navigable. I did find an open directory site today called Knowledge Sharing Toolkit (Cc-BY-SA 3.0) which covers a number of social technologies for organising, collaborating, and facilitating. If organisations want to shift to free code software and open source development, you can't go past the Free Software Directory, OpenHub, FreshCode, and OpenHatch.

Between all the participants here, I'm sure we could come up with a long list of helpful sites, but what seems to be needed is a unified portal that aggregates all the most pertinent information in one place. Something that does for organisational transitions what Appropedia.org (CC-BY-SA 3.0) does for appropriate technology and permaculture How-Tos. Ironically, this would be exactly the 'open social resource that aggregates all the other open social resources', that you lampoon in your SXSW talk @douglasrushkoff ;)

DS

Danyl Strype Sat 30 Apr 2016

May I suggest a way to proceed based on a bit of Agile development:
1) Come up with a complete list of user stories that cover all the types of requests @douglasrushkoff is getting
2) Find a volunteer (or if there is more than one candidate a working group) to coordinate the gathering of the resources most helpful to each use case, including how-tos, case studies, and organisations with the capacity to offer gratis guidance and/or paid consultancy. Structure these resources by presenting a page for each use case with:
* a TL;DR that covers the bare bones
* an essay of no more than a page that fleshes out the TL;DR
* links to external directories and resources inserted into the essay as relevant
* where the number of useful links is too many to fit the main essay, link to similarly structured aggregation pages (TL;DR followed by link-heavy short essay)

3) Develop the pages in the open in a public place eg P2P Foundation wiki, a Loomio (sub)group, or a project on CoActivate.org
4) Release early, release often, by hosting the unified directory made up of all these curated pages on a polished website (eg CommonsTransition.org), and updating it from the wiki as often as possible

This strategy allows us to activate what we have here; a small group of passionate people who want to change the world. If it works, it will give @douglasrushkoff a set of simple links he can send in response to his correspondents, which will allow them to navigate their way through a much larger network of organisations and projects that are already set up to help them achieve what they've become inspired by "Throwing Rocks" to do.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Sat 30 Apr 2016

Yes, that seems exactly right. I can start the list but where do I put it?

DS

Danyl Strype Wed 29 Jun 2016

BTW @douglasrushkoff I'm still keen to help you triage and redirect the requests for help and advice you are getting in response to the 'Throwing Rocks...' book. I like the suggestion by @staccotroncoso that we use the CommonsTransition wiki as a staging area for assembling the resources needed. I will set up a user there, but is this thread the appropriate place to continue the discussion as this project unfolds? Or does it need a dedicated thread/ group/ forum/ email list/ something else?

ST

Stacco Troncoso Wed 29 Jun 2016

Hi Stripey there's already a dedicated Loomio group for Commons Transition wiki development. If anyone is interested in contributing please join up here.

ST

Stacco Troncoso Sun 1 May 2016

Hey @douglasrushkoff @strypey. As Strypey says, the P2P Foundation Wiki is, by nature, far ranging and sprawling. For the list, I suggest using the Commons Transition wiki, which is a much more focused affair. It needs to be populated and curated more but the plan is to expand it from its initial policy focus to also include resources for a generative economy and a sustainable livelihood by heavily developing the existing Open Coops category. As I mentioned somewhere above, these resources will eventually be coalesced into a more evolved UX-friendly platform, but the wiki can perfectly be the precursor to that.

Within the wiki though, we can also make a friendlier landing page, like we did with Law for the Commons portal

If anyone from the group wants to contribute, please make a user, we'd love to have you on board.

ST

Stacco Troncoso Sun 1 May 2016

BTW @strypey that's an excellent workplan and pretty similar to what we had in mind. The folk I've been working with on the Commons Transition Wiki have suggested making a Loomio group for wiki coordination. I'll link that here once it's set up.

cc @ellenfriedman

ST

Stacco Troncoso Sun 1 May 2016

More resources on the Open Coops dev agency can also be found in this article by Henry Tam.
cc @graham2

BH

Bob Haugen Wed 22 Jun 2016

Hey hey @douglasrushkoff - we just watched this speech.

Thank you very much from the bottom of our hearts! We'll watch it again and steal lotsa quotes.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Wed 22 Jun 2016

Please do! Thanks for the positive feedback. It sustains.

BH

Bob Haugen Wed 22 Jun 2016

P.S. with proper credit, of course.

DS

Danyl Strype Wed 29 Jun 2016

@douglasrushkoff was interviewed about 'Throwing Rocks...' on RadioNZ. Looking forward to hearing you speak at Open Source/ Open Society Doug! BTW I finally got hold of a copy of 'Throwing Rocks...'. I chowed through it over a couple of days, and loved it for all the same reasons I loved the SXSW talk based on it. The only critical feedback I'd offer is a suggestion to read David Graeber's 'Debt' and modify the section about the history of credit and currency. Doing so wouldn't have any major implications on the arguments in the book, but would put your helpful historical context for the emergence of the corporation into its larger historical context.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Wed 29 Jun 2016

I have no good advice. I'm spending six hours a day doing one-hour meetings with people who want advice on their stuff. So I'm contemplating a rather radical move toward isolation. My first step was to limit myself to 75 one-hour meetings a month, but it's still way too much - and it's leaving a few dozen people angry that they weren't scheduled. So I may be the last person to ask for advice on efficient data sharing. I thought writing books would help, but they seem to amplify the problem rather than solve it.

When you say "community leaders" do you mean a global meeting of community leaders from throughout the planet? I'm guessing you would do better to attend an existing meeting of community leaders in order to share your stuff, rather than start and run a summit of some kind in addition to everything else! There's some big events coming up this year and next.

PBH

Paul B. Hartzog Wed 29 Jun 2016

@douglasrushkoff1 @douglasrushkoff (which is correct?) ;-)

My apologies. By "community leaders" I just meant Asheville people. Definitely later I want to have people from outside come here for an event like the one I just attended in Madison. At least we are all trying. :-)

NS

Nicolas Stampf Wed 29 Jun 2016

Boarding the train, hi everybody.
From what i read here i see a lot in common with the solutions presented in "Tomorrow the movie". There's been such a thriving feedback here in France that they set up a website about "after tomorrow". My phone hides me the English part but it might exist here: it lists initiatives people took after viewing the movie. So it's a hell lot if concrete solutions, although without the plan.
Here: http://www.demain-lefilm.com/apres-demain

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Wed 29 Jun 2016

You mean, like, on Twitter? I'm @rushkoff

RDB

Richard D. Bartlett Thu 30 Jun 2016

We Enspiral "ambassadors" are getting an increasing volume of requests for advice from people that want to follow in our footsteps (which I think are more-or-less in line with the 'Throwing Rocks' footsteps too).

I'd say between us we're probably engaging with nearly as many new folks as @douglasrushkoff1 is.

I don't think there is a bite-sized ready made piece of advice that works for everyone.

For someone with energy to start something I'll often say, "find 5 freelancers and convince them to share their income". I think that provokes the right kinds of problems for them to solve.

For someone who has started something and wants to bring in some more structure so they can keep going without losing their socialist soul, I point them to this article about bootstrapping a bossless organisation. Frankly I think the people that know how to organise cooperatively are in the tiny minority so we need to share all the lessons we can.

I feel like we are trying to bootstrap a new economy out of the shell of the old one. The new one is not sustainable yet, so it requires a lot of people to reach deep into their personal reserves to try to get some critical mass.

I think what we need now more than anything is solidarity, I really think that is going to make the difference between success and failure. It is awesome that there's a movement of sorts building around Throwing Rocks, and around Commons Transition, and around Platform Coops, and around Enspiral and and and...

Solidarity for me means relationship building, alliances, mutual aid, promoting each other's work, buying each other's products, sharing stories of struggle and triumph, introducing friendly investors and advisors, staying in each other's houses etc.

Me and my buds have got a long of energy to host people in Wellington. Our next convergence is in August (osos.nz). It will be great to hear about some of the other geographic hubs, and key moments in the calendar around the world, so we can keep deepening these relationships.

DS

Danyl Strype Mon 4 Jul 2016

"I don't think there is a bite-sized ready made piece of advice that works for everyone."

I agree the situation of every person/ group is unique and so case-specific advice is the most helpful. I also agree that building relationships is important. But general advice is still more helpful than no advice.

For example, the 'Throwing Rocks...' book seems to have helped people clarify and organise a bunch of confusing thoughts and ideas they were already grappling with in isolation. Naturally, this leads people to think the best way to get more detailed advice is to speak to its author, but as @douglasrushkoff says, he can only meet with so many people, without going mad ;) If the page about the book on this official website featured a prominent link to documentation (eg policy documents, mutual aid wikis etc) that can be freely linked/ distributed, it scales up more easily than face-to-face meetings, and can help guide people wanting personalized advice to the right people from a large pool of potential mentors/ partners. Ideally, this then facilitates a mesh of new relationships in which public figures like Doug don't have to serve as increasingly over-loaded central 'servers', and can get on with their own work (eg researching and writing more books).

@staccotroncoso I have requested to join the CT wiki group, and I look forward to helping put together this documentation over the coming weeks and months.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Sun 3 Jul 2016

The Shareable people should be in our little circle, as well. They've done a great job at publicizing and even indexing all our efforts.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Mon 4 Jul 2016

I actually went and did that for Life Inc back in 2009. I made an online "resource guide" with not only links to sites and resources about things like community supported agriculture, alt currencies, and mutual aid. But it may have been too early, which is why I ended up doing the Contact conference in 2011. The people interested in this stuff were fewer and further between. Now it's millions.

Of course, a lot of people just can't be bothered to read/buy a book. Half the inquiries I get are from people who have seen a talk or article and now want to meet live - when they should really just read a book on the commons, on currencies, or on B corps. And a whole lot are young developers who want to run by me their nearly identical proposals for blockchain-based economies or social networks.

So in some ways, I'm thinking it's education they need. For, in reality, when the CEO of a major corporation wants to talk about changing the basic structure of his organization, I can go talk to him. It's worth the time and there's some chance I can get a donation out of him for my Lab.

But yeah, if I can identify the top five questions, and then create or point to basic education on those areas (platform coops, local currency, B and multiple-purpose corps, loomio/consensus for governance, shareholder communications...) we'd be good. Although, honestly, most of the education they need is already in the book. I think what they want is for me to identify those pages, paste them into an html document online, and then point them directly to what they need.

And that's kind of unfair. I get that they see what I'm saying as unfair: why should they spend four hours and twenty bucks to find this out, when I could simply point them to something they can read in 20 minutes? And if they can meet with me, then they get the inspiration they need - the sense of positive reinforcement. As if my taking the time to hear it somehow means it's real. Or as if I have some place to plug them in where it becomes real.

I was thinking Shareable may be the best resource and community to send them to. It's a community - and a ton of resources - but not quite as "advanced" as this little circle.

DS

Danyl Strype Wed 6 Jul 2016

"I actually went and did that for Life Inc back in 2009"

Is this work still available online? Perhaps we could help you update it for use with 'Throwing Rocks'? If this redirected even a few of the people seeking meetings with you towards other potential mentors, it would reduce your overload, while giving them (all going well) ongoing support instead of a one-off meeting with an author who's feeling a bit badgered ;)

BH

Bob Haugen Mon 4 Jul 2016

whole lot are young developers who want to run by me their nearly identical proposals for blockchain-based economies or social networks.

That's what we are seeing, too. Lotsa people redeveloping the same computer system instead of organizing a real-world system. Which is what will count. And which takes real work. I wonder how many of the instant-gratification crowd will do that.

Same with all the people redeveloping the same computer system, of course. Coordinated efforts on one or a few systems also requires a lot of hard organizing work.

BH

Bob Haugen Mon 4 Jul 2016

P.S. re

platform coops

I don't think platforms are the way to go. Platforms don't interoperate. They want to be the whole thing all by themselves. It's just tailgating facebook and thinking you can do a platform better. Protocols and vocabularies will meet the real needs better, as in the Web.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Mon 4 Jul 2016

Yes, but they've bought the BS line that the "web is dead".

PBH

Paul B. Hartzog Mon 4 Jul 2016

Bob and I had some conversations about this, and we agree. When I was at Doug's NYC "Next Economy" event, I was interviewed about interoperability and a system I came up with called Flows. The video is on my youtube channel at http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCB6q2MO1dl5lLNKasAl2fWg

Point being that real interoperability is all about discovery and automation. Right now people still get caught in the trap of thinking that cooperation requires coordination, but it doesn't. You can design individual components of a system (such as system of programs) so that people who want to contribute to the system can do so without having to coordinate with someone else in order to achieve it.

The ideal system would embody multiple methods at all layers of the stack (addresses, protocols, resources, etc.) as illustrated in the NextNet proof-of-concept diagram at http://blog.p2pfoundation.net/a-nextnet-proof-of-concept/2011/04/04.

More importantly, it would use a process of 1) asking how many request types and response types the listener supports, 2) making the request and telling the receiver what response type to provide, 3) receiving the response as requested.

Even though Flows achieves this in programmatic systems, it is the same ontology as the "killer app" I mentioned when Doug interviewed me about "open source currency" back in 2004 (http://www.thefeaturearchives.com/101119.html) where the idea was that an app would ask what currencies the seller accepts and know what currencies the buyer has and would auto-negotiate the transfer even going so far as to request "change" in a particular currency (the app is only mentioned in Doug's piece, but it is explained in my Future of Money article at http://www.mindjack.com/feature/futuremoney.html)

Fwiw, Doug, my Stanford lecture on commons (from the lecture series with Howard Rheingold and the Institute for the Future) is also on that YouTube channel, and it's only 1 hour long, so feel free to point people to there anytime. I could use the feedback. In fact, I'm always happy for feedback on any of my work. :-)

Finally, I'm not into pimping my own work, but I thought it relevant here because there is a coherence to all of the things I have been doing over the last many years re: commons networks, interoperabililty, etc. and I thought you all might be interested.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Mon 4 Jul 2016

Yeah - it's basically the open web principles, extended. I tried to have this conversation with the Synereo people, but I am not sure we understood one another.

BH

Bob Haugen Mon 4 Jul 2016

the open web principles, extended

Yes! We need to rethink technology from a commons perspective instead of a rent-seeking perspective, which is what all the VC-funded startups go for. And often, what the open source apps emulate.

And whatever it is, it will have the same properties of reach, scale, interop, and ease of entry as the Web.

DS

Danyl Strype Wed 6 Jul 2016

@douglasrushkoff1 said:
"if they can meet with me, then they get the inspiration they need - the sense of positive reinforcement. As if my taking the time to hear it somehow means it's real."

Perhaps it's one of the consequences of our celebrity-obsessed culture that people mistake getting a meeting with a public figure like Doug or Richard Stallman with having "made it" in some way. I think nobody is immune to this. I have to admit I fell into the same trap when I hosted Michel Bauwens during his recent tour of Aotearoa, and I was as excited when I first saw Doug pop up here as I would have been in the 90s if a musician like Eddie Vedder (Pearl Jam) or Les Claypool (Primus) posted on an independent music mailing list I was part of.

I think the net can still feel like a weird role-playing game, and having face-to-face meetings with people can make the online projects they are associated with seem more "real". I have to say that the P2PF/ CT feels more "real" since having an in-person meeting with one of its prominent members. But as Michel pointed out when we met, P2P communities of practice scale a lot better than everyone trying to meet with perceived "leaders" (even if only a "thought leaders"). The challenge is, as we've been discussing here, is how can we bring people together in communities of practice, including connecting them with existing ones, and put them in touch with the people who are already out there wanting to mentor them?

BH

Bob Haugen Wed 6 Jul 2016

I think a consciously organized mentoring program could be useful. Like study groups back in the day.

PBH

Paul B. Hartzog Wed 6 Jul 2016

Well, Michel and I have been doing this work for a long time, and so far I've managed to avoid being "centrally visible" despite always showing up in the same circles. ;-)

I mentored students while I was teaching at the University of Michigan and I find it very fulfilling.

I'm not sure how I would cope if more people directed their attention to me but I'm certainly willing to give it a shot! :-D :-D

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Wed 6 Jul 2016

Again, if I simply had a list of people in each main area of concern, I would be able to divert a few dozen inquiries to them every week. That's the main thing I'm hoping to accomplish this year: create a simple Google Doc of practitioners in several areas of the most interest.

I need to find at least two or three practitioners in each main area. So far, I have none. There may not actually be any. But that would be something to learn, too.

BH

Bob Haugen Wed 6 Jul 2016

If you get some initial coverage, those people could train others.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Wed 6 Jul 2016

Sure. I'll be interested to see if I can find any people who actually do the things we talk about.
If there are only a few people in the world who do any of this, then education would be in order.

Right now, I'm working on a local gift card solution for my town, and I did find a startup who handles it pretty well. So I will try them out and then suggest them as a resource.

GC

Greg Cassel Wed 6 Jul 2016

That's the main thing I'm hoping to accomplish this year: create a simple Google Doc of practitioners in several areas of the most interest.

FYI one of my main priorities in nonlinear communications technology is to matchmake people according to their self-assessed (and potentially endorsed) degrees of competence and interest in specific subjects. Kinda like LinkedIn's Skills and Endorsements, but IMO much more rational and informative.

I've been folllowing this conversation with considerable interest, and may try to weigh in more substantially later.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Wed 6 Jul 2016

Yes, I'd be interested to hear it.

I'm a medium is the message kind of person, for sure. But I am still uncertain whether there are currently living humans with expertise in the skills for which towns, organizations, and companies are asking. They may simply have to learn to do these things themselves, and then post their results for others to follow.

It feels like everyone re-invents the wheel, but maybe it's a matter of me finding resources for them. Like, for instance, a great book on how to create a local currency. Or another one on transitioning a company from traditional shareholder ownership to a coop.

Or it could be a long-term thing, where I go to law schools and tell them about some of the needs, and see whether they are interested in educating their graduates in these skills. The long-term plan.

BH

Bob Haugen Wed 6 Jul 2016

You should be able to find a lot of people who have experience " transitioning a company from traditional shareholder ownership to a coop."

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Wed 6 Jul 2016

Yeah, I should.

DS

Danyl Strype Thu 7 Jul 2016

It seems like we all agree on assembling a curated, categorized list of mentors, books, websites etc that we can direct interested people to in the first instance. Maybe this discussion could now get into the nuts and bots of who and what we all recommend? As @staccotroncoso said, the CommonsTransition wiki is available to aggregate everything we brainstorm here into a more organised and accessible format.

For example, @bobhaugen says:
You should be able to find a lot of people who have experience " transitioning a company from traditional shareholder ownership to a coop."

My list would start with John Abrams of South Mountain Company, who wrote the excellent book 'Companies We Keep'. The insights of Ricardo Semler of SemCo, author of 'Maverick', would also be a useful resource for transitioning from hierarchical to democratic governance.

NS

Nicolas Stampf Thu 7 Jul 2016

Hi there

Following the exchanges with interest.

Is there a limitation to starting a wiki book right now?

First step would be to list the topic to be addressed (a list of books, really). Then send calls for crowdsourcing the different contents.

I hear that there are skills available but a lack of time. What about a book sprint then? http://www.booksprints.net/about/ ( http://www.booksprints.net/about/ ) it might be difficult to organize in which case the asynchronous wiki would still be an option...

Just my 2c...

JH

Jake Hansen Thu 21 Jul 2016

Nicolas, thanks for the link to the Book Sprint website! I explored the website some days ago and it stuck: I have had the wish to write a book 'sometime' for several years now and doing it in a Book Sprint way seems a great way to do it.

So in case you or anyone else is interested in participating/co-writing, let me know.

I can take it upon myself to get this off the ground. Probably not interesting for Bauwens, Rushkoff and other already writing their own books, but more for people (like me?) who are interested in bringing their ideas into the world, doing that in a co-creative way with others and liking this type of process.

Besides this group I will also put this initiative forward via other communities, see if we can get something going.

SG

Simon Grant Thu 7 Jul 2016

Thinking over the idea of "let's start a book / website / wiki / etc."

There are already many of them -- which are valuable for whom, for what reasons? I've nothing against starting a new one, if there is a genuine need. But for each new resource that is started, there is (a) the labour required to curate it (b) the question of how it relates to all the other resources (c) the danger of it not being kept up to date, and therefore acting as a hindrance rather than a help, because it is one more in a complex plethora of resources.

There is much to be said for simplicity.

But also, perhaps it may be worth considering a different approach.

Who actually wants to consult another resource? Who is satisfied by reading? Perhaps some people, sometimes. But my guess is, many people want human contact, human conversations, dialogues.

And immediately we see the huge inequalities among us. Some of us (like @douglasrushkoff1 ) are inundated with too many requests, needing to step out of the limelight. Others would love more conversations, because we are not full up, and more conversations on topics around our closely held values would enrich our lives, as well as our views.

What if we could devise a system (could I write "platform"? Hazardous!) through which anyone can find one other person eager and willing to have a mutually enriching conversation, about a topic of joint interest? What if we could equally devise a system that uses technology to enable people to come together as peers, on commons-oriented projects, ventures, enterprises?

Simon

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Thu 7 Jul 2016

The "system" could be as easy as a GoogleDoc or web page written in simple html. The question is whether there are practitioners. There are many great books. I am being asked for professionals capable of helping towns and organizations accomplish ten or twelve specific things.

I think the only choice is for me, maybe alone right now, to begin contacting professional societies of lawyers, accountants, and others, to see if they have members who are looking for work in these areas. Then I get their names, and post them on the web page of people.

Sure, I can throw some books on there, but two or three sentences describing the service category is probably sufficient.

BH

Bob Haugen Thu 7 Jul 2016

contacting professional societies of lawyers, accountants,

You know that the lawyers and accountants are likely to tell people "you can't do that"? Abrams, whom you mentioned upthread, has apparently done it before. Those are the people I would want.

SG

Simon Grant Thu 7 Jul 2016

Yes, the system could be underpinned by relatively ubiquitous technology; the question is then, what of the human part of the system? How would people use the technology effectively to achieve the result of people finding others for mutually enriching conversations on the topics we all count as valuable? I'm not too worried about the technology, to be honest, but I am concerned that the necessary practice is accessible and not so complex that it unnecessarily excludes people. On the other hand, if we agree on a good, promising model for humans using this kind of system, we can design the technology to support it.

SG

Simon Grant Thu 7 Jul 2016

Also, to follow on from @bobhaugen , personally I'm not initially envisaging conversations between "lay" and "professional" people, where one party is enlightening the other, but rather the kind of p2p conversations where both parties are enriched. Sure, this can happen with professionals as well, if they are stepping aside from their role as professionals. I suspect it is in the role of professionals that they would be saying "you can't do that".

BH

Bob Haugen Thu 7 Jul 2016

I know Enspiral was recently looking for "progressive accountants" that would help them make some of their collaborative money management practices (e.g. my.enspiral) interface nicely with the expectations of traditional accountants (e.g. govt, clients, etc).

Anybody know if they found any of them? Sensorica is looking for the same thing. They did find a lawyer who seemed to be sympatico. I'll ask who if anybody wants to know.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Thu 7 Jul 2016

I think that's the path I'll have to take: contact organizations and companies who have achieved any of the goals others are looking for (establishing a local currency, becoming a B corp, structuring a platform coop) and find out who they used. It's really just a bunch of emailing, and then preliminary vetting.

Then, I type a list.

If someone gets interested in creating a more advanced platform with reputational currency, etc., once I have more than a few dozen names, that would be great. Until then, it's just a simple Directory of People.

NS

Nicolas Stampf Thu 7 Jul 2016

Can we start with a list of topics, then add a list of names/organizations who we think have achieved something significant?

2016-07-07 14:44 GMT+02:00 Douglas Rushkoff (Loomio) :

I think that’s the path I’ll have to take: contact organizations and companies who have achieved any of the goals others are looking for (establishing a local currency, becoming a B corp, structuring a platform coop) and find out who they used. It’s really just a bunch of emailing, and then preliminary vetting.

Then, I type a list.

If someone gets interested in creating a more advanced platform with reputational currency, etc., once I have more than a few dozen names, that would be great. Until then, it’s just a simple Directory of People.

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DR

Douglas Rushkoff Thu 7 Jul 2016

Sure:

  • Picking and Implementing a Community Currency

  • Setting up a B-Corp

  • Setting up a Multiple Purpose Corp

  • Transitioning to Employee Ownership, Cooperative, or Similar Ownership Structures

  • Establishing a Buy Local campaign and local gift card

  • Shareholder communications, Moving Large Corporations from Growth to Dividends

  • Alternative Capital Raising Strategies (structuring convertible debt)

  • Alternative investment strategies for pension funds and unions

  • Business development help for legal practices and medical practices looking for sustainable models

That covers at least a hundred of the requests for help.

NS

Nicolas Stampf Thu 7 Jul 2016

great, thanks.
Now, I don't have contacts, but I know some people who have. For instance, those who produced "Tomorrow, the movie" (currently showing in London at least): there are successful experiments with complementary currencies like the Bristol Pound (http://bristolpound.org/)... or was is the Briwton Pound (http://brixtonpound.org)? Sorry can't remember :)

Frederic Laloux for his book Reinventing Organizations met quite some companies that went into self-maangement (or whatever you call it).

Detroit in the US is experiencing a revival in matters of local food (urban farming for instance), and I'm sure different kind of business altogether, because all the big companies just left the city.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Thu 7 Jul 2016

Oh - I have all these links. And many many more. Probably best not to re-create the p2p blog here, etc. I know hundreds of alt currencies, as well.

And I've gone through a few dozen books and movies and contacted the participants filmed. They are almost exclusively people in places who did particular things. They are willing to write about their experiences, but they are not into going to other places and implementing these things for companies and organizations.

In other words, many people have figure things out for themselves and their own communities. They are not, however, prepared to do legal frameworks or consulting for other communities or companies.

That's why I'm thinking the three years I've been going that route is really only appropriate for creating a set of DIY resources (which many places are already doing, including Commons Transitions). This is why I'm thinking of finding lawyers and accountants through the organizations that they belong to.

NS

Nicolas Stampf Thu 7 Jul 2016

oh I see (sorry, I'm a bit slow). It then depends on the country you're willing to do that for (rule of thumb, although highly unsufficient): common law / napoleonian code or... US/UK vs rest of the world.

I'd expect finding knowledgeable people in law and legalese stuff (and willing to somehow engage their reputation on publicly released document) to be really hard to find.

Could it be possible to start with existing initiatives publishing their documents for others to read (and transmit to their own lawyers)?

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Thu 7 Jul 2016

It could, but there are so many permutations. I have myself published, and seen the publication of hundreds of plans. It's very hard for one organization to use the documents from another.

There are some Fintech companies working on modular legal and financial solutions. Essentially, they are automating what we can't find human beings to do.

It could just be that my universal response is: there is no one who can help you. You have to figure it out yourself.

But again - what I have to do is spend less time talking about and describing the thing I'm trying to do, and just go do it. I do appreciate all the thought and determination expressed here. I just think I have to go work on this, and then report back in a few months when I see what I can do.

It's interesting to know I'm doing something no one else is actually working on, though. We'll have to see whether that is because this is not a possible thing.

BH

Bob Haugen Thu 7 Jul 2016

It's interesting to know I'm doing something no one else is actually working on, though.

Assuming it's valuable work, and you can do it, then that's the best possible thing to be doing.

We'll have to see whether that is because this is not a possible thing.

Yeah, it's possible.

NS

Nicolas Stampf Thu 7 Jul 2016

Well people won't escape some hard work, and thinking and collaborative meetings and thinking hard to their collective purpose, etc.

But there may be an intermediary route between the problem (eg setting up a complementary currency) and the legal docs. Like check lists of what to do before starting (clarifying questions, possibly with decision trees of the "if then" kind, and checklists, etc.

In short: high level perspectives on preparation, construction and running one if the endeavors you mentioned?

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Thu 7 Jul 2016

Once I have located some of those experts, I will see if they are willing to create such resources.

BH

Bob Haugen Thu 7 Jul 2016

Depending on what kinds of complementary currency people want, mutual credit networks might be an easy way to get started.

http://www.mutualaidnetwork.org/ is actively generating sister sites. Not fully formed yet, but they got some years of experience in mutual credit systems, and are expanding into other areas.

http://matslats.net/ and Michael Linton of http://www.openmoney.org/ know more about those than most people.

All of those like to help other groups.

DR

Douglas Rushkoff Thu 7 Jul 2016

Thanks. I'll see whether either organization has people willing to be hired to help towns do this.

DS

Danyl Strype Mon 18 Jul 2016

I've been part of groups that have done some of the things in your list, and I've been an advisor/ supporter of groups that have done others. I've worked in and facilitated for consensus-based groups, and networked organisations, for decades. I'm available to work with community groups, non-profits, municipal authorities, public agencies, and social enterprises. I can start immediately. Where do I sign up to join your network of expert facilitators/ consultants?

My partner was the founder of the Dunedin Timebank, and spent some time as a board member for the Living Economies Trust. She will soon be submitting her Phd thesis on the emergence of timebanking in Aotearoa. After that, we will both be available to work anywhere in the world, assuming our return air fairs from Aotearoa and other expenses are covered. Again, where do we sign up?

BH

Bob Haugen Thu 7 Jul 2016

Send me an email at info@mikorizal.org (if you want) and I'll introduce you to Matt Slats and Stephanie Rearick who would be good starting points.

DS

Danyl Strype Mon 18 Jul 2016

I agree that what people need is ongoing mentoring relationships, not more stuff to read, as @douglasrushkoff , @richarddbartlett and @nicolasstampf have all pointed out in different comments. There are two problems I see. One is that I'm guessing mentors assume they are expected to volunteer their time, rather than being paid as consultants. As a consequence of this, potential mentors write books (or create other reading resources), so they can then recommend these to the horde of people wanting their unpaid time as mentors.

Is Doug is getting interest from organisations that are able and willing to pay for mentoring as a service? If we make it clear to potential mentors that monetary reimbursement for mentoring time is part of the deal being offered, would more people with on-the-ground experience be interested in being listed in a mentor directory? (EDIT: minor tweaking of wording)

NS

Nicolas Stampf Mon 18 Jul 2016

As I see it, there could be the usual bifaced path: one of open-source (or not in the case ofpaid book for instance) do-it-yourself (by reading books, viewing MOOCs, etc.) for the really committed ones (and/or those who can't afford the other path), and the consulting/mentoring, and paid path.

There's not much to say on the former.

On the latter, we can investigate how to multiply the effect of the initial mentors: either through direct mentoring (again, with or without compensation), or through self learning as well.

If I forgot something, please tell me :)

2016-07-18 8:12 GMT+02:00 Strypey (Loomio) :

Strypey vous a cité en discutant "Rushkoff: Rebooting work: Programming the Economy for People"

I agree that what people need is ongoing mentoring relationships, not more stuff to read, as @douglasrushkoff , @richarddbartlett and @nicolasstampf have all pointed out in different comments. There are two problems I see. One is that I’m guessing mentors are expected to volunteer their time, rather than being paid as consultants. As a consequence of this, potential mentors write books (or creating other reading resources), so they can then recommend to the horde of people wanting their unpaid time as mentors.

Is Doug is getting interest from organisations that are able and willing to pay for mentoring as a service? If we make it clear to potential mentors that monetary reimbursement for mentoring time is part of the deal being offered, would more people with on-the-ground experience be interested in being listed in a mentor directory?

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DR

Douglas Rushkoff Mon 18 Jul 2016

Yeah, I was thinking that lawyers, currency designers, and economic development professionals would charge their normal rates to companies, organizations, and governments looking to engage their services. Just a yellow pages of service providers. Like an "Angies List" that could ultimately include reviews from those who have hired them.

I think the easiest way to start would be with a Google Doc that has a public link, or a page on the upcoming TeamHuman website. I have someone who is supposed to have had the site up a few months ago. It's just two wordpress pages, so I'm not sure what the holdup is. I will find out.

Otherwise, I can easily post a single page website with no formatting. Less is more.

PBH

Paul B. Hartzog Mon 18 Jul 2016

Janelle Orsi is at the top of my list (lawyer, p2p mind, etc.)

-p


http://www.PaulBHartzog.org ( http://www.PaulBHartzog.org )

PaulBHartzog@PaulBHartzog.org (o|o)

If you bow deeply to the universe, it bows back.

~ Ueshiba Morihei

The Universe is made up of stories, not atoms.
~ Muriel Rukeyser

Act as if what you do makes a difference. It does.
~ William James

We come out of the world, not into it.
~ Alan Watts

If the path before you is clear, you're probably on someone else's
~ Joseph Campbell

And if you have a subject, you're going to have objects too

~ Richard Adler

Perceive differently, then you will act differently.

~ Paul B. Hartzog

DS

Danyl Strype Wed 20 Jul 2016

I see that some of you are commenting from an email client. For the sake of tidiness, please remember to delete the text you are replying to (except any bits you are specifically quoting), and any signature text etc, so the only thing you are sending is the comment text you want to appear in the discussion thread. Cheers :)

NS

Nicolas Stampf Thu 21 Jul 2016

You're welcome... but would your book be about? :)

JH

Jake Hansen Fri 22 Jul 2016

I am not exactly sure yet and could imagine this is something the co-writers figure out together ;) My topics of interest include: community-based (product) development, P2P production, systemic societal change, open source economy, open design products, Internet of Things, (modular) open design housing and living indepedently/off the grid, sustainable living, all revolving around innovation, technology and entrepreneurial initiatives.

SG

Simon Grant Fri 22 Jul 2016

Maybe it would be worth a try bringing together anyone who is interested in co-authoring on this kind of topic, and then seeing if there are natural groupings. My guess is that focused books are more likely to be read than ones that cover a very wide range. Personally, I'd be happy to focus on what I think of as the ecosystem around what has been called standardization, and I think of as "open commons norms and harmonization"; while I have a general interest around technology supporting open / commons / transition / etc. economy, and could collaborate here as well.

JH

Jake Hansen Fri 22 Jul 2016

Simon, yes that sounds good. Your reply triggered new ideas as of what would be interesting for me to work on and publish: an inspirational, visually appealing (design + photo material) book for non-insiders, giving case studies of successful initiatives/projects/products in our domain. A lot of visuals, personal stories, attractive anecdotes, not too much 'dry theory'.

On the other hand: intermezzos with a topic like you mention could be included as well, as long as they are easily worded, brief, visual and do not comprise of more than 25% of the contents.

The title could be something like: "Glimpses of a new society." and be targeted towards people who are interested, but not insiders.

As for the case studies, I would prefer the more tangible product-based ones, like Open Source Ecology and less about the network organizations like P2P Foundation (but do include successful projects they supported/executed). I am also more interested in case studies for longer-term initiatives and of things that can scale up, rather than for example a research project that was once done, has been successful, and that was that.

End of August I will be at Koppelting.org, asking around there for co-writers and I will ask around in my network.

Can I add you to the list of 'people shown interest in co-writing'? :)