Loomio
January 1st, 2019 17:43

285 ETH ! What am I gonna do?

Loie
Loie Public Seen by 235

We received a generous donation of 285 Ether and it’s time to decide what to do with it!
Take a look at the proposal.

Loie

Loie started a proposal January 1st, 2019 17:45

Whatcha gonna do with all that junk inside the trunk? Closed 11:03am - Monday 7 Jan 2019

Tension:

We received a generous donation of 285 Ether and it’s time to decide what to do with it!

Proposal:

Split it down the middle. 142.5ETH to the Giveth DAC with 25ETH converted to DAI and 142.5ETH to the Unicorn DAC, with ½ the Unicorn DAC ETH being converted to DAI. To do this efficiently, we will make a multisig transaction, sending all the ETH to an unused address that Griff controls and then he will convert it to DAI and donate as decided in this thread.

Background:

It would be nice if all of this could go to the Unicorn DAC, but there are some outstanding debts that need to be paid (for instance, backlogged regular rewards for Kay, Bowen, Michael and other unicorns) that would just take too long to be done by the Unicorn DAC. We haven’t really changed our internal habits to account for this new system (we really should be making all our milestones in advance!) so until we do we need to make sure the DAC has some funding.

The Giveth DAC funds can give us some needed runway to fill in the gaps that the Unicorn DAC leaves.

The Unicorn DAC functions as the steering committee for the other 50% of this donation. We have already agreed to this experimental way of delegating funds donated to Giveth, so lets reaffirm this decision here. The experiment is well under way and the Unicorn DAC has been funding milestones for 5 weeks now!

There are 7 Unicorns in the Genesis Herd, so each one would get equal parts ETH and DAI (with Bowen’s held back until it’s official).

Results
Agree - 6
Abstain - 1
Disagree - 1
Block - 0
8 people have voted (17%)
Josh Fairhead

Josh Fairhead
Abstain
January 1st, 2019 18:16

I don't know but have clarifying questions that would help me in forming an opinion: Why is it the right time to move the funds now? (Its often best to make decisions only when they need to be made) What was the donations intent? If for general use; how diversified is the bet? What are the risks:reward? Closing the loop is it all still aligned with the donations intent?

Kris is

Kris is
Agree
January 2nd, 2019 09:59

Kris is

Kris is January 2nd, 2019 10:06

Answering some of Josh's questions:
- "Why is it the right time to move the funds now? (Its often best to make decisions only when they need to be made)" - Right now Giveth has/had zero funds. We are currently being funded by one person (Griff). So the sooner we decide the sooner we 'diversify' our donations (and don't just count on griff).
- "What was the donations intent? " - As far as I know it was an anonymous donation, no comments. So we assume it's supporting the current goals of Giveth.
- "If for general use; how diversified is the bet?" - The Unicorn DAC creates the diversification/distribution/decentralization, bcs the decision power lies with the Unicorns, not by one delegate (which now mostly is Griff)
- "What are the risks:reward? Closing the loop is it all still aligned with the donations intent?" - Personally I don't see any risk, giving more power to the people forming the DAC creates lower risk and a higher 'participatory' reward for all.

Michael Roberts

Michael Roberts
Agree
January 3rd, 2019 04:00

Pol Lanski

Pol Lanski January 3rd, 2019 07:06

1) I'm not quite sure what it means that the Unicorns would get equal parts ETH and DAI... does that mean every week as per the normal UnicornDAC functioning?
2) Why the arbitrary split down the middle? And the deeper split with only 25ETH being converted to DAI for the Giveth DAC?
* For me it is imperative that people always have security on how their salaries are going to be paid, so I would like to see a budget that plans X months of salary for them and, IF they are meant to transition to being funded milestone by milestone by the Unicorn DAC, which I am not sure that's what everyone wants, that there is a plan to do so and everyone knows how it's going to happen, when and WIIFThem.

PS: do we have a treasurer / CFO / master budgeteer role? That's something I can do if necessary!

Loie

Loie January 3rd, 2019 07:44

@lanski
1) Yes, they would get access to the same amount per week that's already agreed upon. In order for me to delegate for them tho, the way it works in the dapp is "donations" are made in their name. So far, Griff has been donating like 12 eth in someones name and 1800 dai in their name. That way when I go to delegate their chosen amounts to different milestones, I can pull from that bank of donation whether the milestone needs eth or dai, and it lasts me a few weeks before having to re-up and do the donation process again. This way, instead of those donations coming from griff's pocket, they'll come from this 285 eth.
Does that make sense?

Pol Lanski

Pol Lanski January 3rd, 2019 07:47

It does! Looking forward to actually using an aragon DAO and being able to do it ourselves! Thanks for the clarification :)

Loie

Loie January 3rd, 2019 07:51

@lanski Re: the split down the middle:
2) There are several outstanding debts from the past that need to be paid. Bowen's salary, Kay's salary, and rent on the office in barcelona i think already amounts to about 100-110 ETH. There are probably other little ones that I haven't thought about, and since we only started making dai milestones recently, most historical payments will be in ETH, so here you can see the reason to have approximately 120 ETH go to the Giveth DAC and just ~25 ETH worth of DAI to the Giveth DAC for things that aren't funded by the Unicorn DAC.

Pol Lanski

Pol Lanski January 3rd, 2019 07:53

That's all good! What I mean is that we might have to put MORE in these in order to give Kay and Bowen more leeway than just paying the debts and give them some security on their next month's salary: It's good to know that you are going to be paid for sure and on time because you know that the money is budgeted for this and nothing else!

Loie

Loie January 3rd, 2019 07:58

ah i see

Bowen Sanders

Bowen Sanders
Abstain
January 3rd, 2019 08:29

I think I needed more clarification before I can vote on this one either! Are we eliminating individual circle budgets entirely now?

Kay

Kay January 3rd, 2019 11:49

I have been voicing a wish for a treasurer for some time now - I would love to see you step up to this Pol! At the minimum it would be a set of proposals dealing with incoming and routing on donations, as well as calculating running budgets.

Kay

Kay
Agree
January 3rd, 2019 11:53

I agree with this proposal insofar, as it seems like it would ease the burden on Griff which seems heavily neccessary right now. As for the numbers - the conversion part really seems to be a bit arbitrary - it would be awesome to find a mechanic here (hedging for security vs speculative risk) as was my opinion in the DAI for reg rewards loomio.

Griff Green

Griff Green
Agree
January 3rd, 2019 13:23

i helped come up with this... details in the gov meeting :-D

Danielle Gennety

Danielle Gennety
Agree
January 3rd, 2019 14:47

I think this is a clean and clear solution that meets the needs of the Giveth DAC and also kicks up the Unicorn DAC. An added benefit is demonstration of our growth as an organization - the need for a budget management role is a good thing and how awesome that Lanski sees it and would like to step into! Making this first split decision somewhat arbitrarily with the 50/50 is okay for now to me, AND adding more analysis, planning and forecasting for the future is a wise next step.

Pol Lanski

Pol Lanski
Disagree
January 3rd, 2019 16:36

I don't have enough info to vote positively. I absolutely agree we need to pay our debts immediately - so I don't want to be a blocker to that by any means! but the rest I would like to see a bit more rationale / budgeting behind.

Bowen Sanders

Bowen Sanders
Agree
January 6th, 2019 22:10

I think I needed more clarification before I can vote on this one either! Are we eliminating individual circle budgets entirely now? (Edited: changing vote to agree since gov meeting)

Loie

Loie started a proposal January 25th, 2019 07:08

Change the ETH/DAI ratio going to the Unicorn DAC Closed 4:02pm - Wednesday 30 Jan 2019

Outcome
by Griff Green January 31st, 2019 17:11

Unicorn DAC will change the ratio of ETH v DAI to be DAI heavier :-D

Proposing a simple change:
Convert 75% of ETH for Unicorn DAC to DAI. So, 142.5 ETH becomes 106.875 ETH worth of DAI, and 35.625 left in ETH.
In the previous proposal in this thread, we chose to split it 50/50.
Now that we are deeper into the shift of making most milestones in DAI, the need for more DAI has become clear.
Note: This DOES NOT change the split between Giveth DAC and Unicorn DAC, it's only how Unicorn DAC is handling their half.
Each week in the Unicorn DAC's funding of milestones, there are way more DAI milestones than ETH and often I have had to bug griff to last minute donate more DAI because the person in whose name I'm delegating has run out of DAI.
You can see in the pics the amount of ETH vs DAI delegations that happened in weeks 5, 6, and 7.

Results
Agree - 7
Abstain - 0
Disagree - 0
Block - 0
7 people have voted (15%)
Loie

Loie
Agree
January 25th, 2019 07:11

it will make my life easier and people will get paid faster! due to not having to wait on re-upping dai portions all the time

Kris is

Kris is
Agree
January 25th, 2019 12:04

Kay

Kay
Agree
January 25th, 2019 13:01

Unicorn DAC with its fixed allowance is a good example for the problems that come with volatility. Interestingly the sheet is full of absolute numbers, where a percentage would maybe make more sense. Anyway - I see DAI are big in Giveth and we probably need them in an even higher ratio.

Josh Fairhead

Josh Fairhead
Agree
January 25th, 2019 16:12

Notoriously bad at math I gaze at the sheet and then agree with the text because if theres a need then please do!

Bowen Sanders

Bowen Sanders
Agree
January 25th, 2019 20:28

Griff Green

Griff Green
Agree
January 26th, 2019 07:01

I think i need to make a loomio too.. it would be nice for the Giveth DAC to get more DAI

Griff Green

Griff Green started a proposal January 26th, 2019 07:30

Giveth DAC DAI Adjustment and Background on DAI Exchange Closed 11:02pm - Thursday 31 Jan 2019

Background
The Giveth DAC currently has 0 DAI: https://beta.giveth.io/dacs/5b37da13a239ac21b383d4da

When we first did the original vote on this, it took about a week to transfer the funds out of the multisig. In that week the price of ETH crashed about 20% so I donated the portion of ETH needed to cover the big ETH milestones (about 107ETH) and have been converting the ETH using the dollar cost average approach, hoping the ETH would pop back up.... It hasn't.

In that time however, I also had discussions with Lanski and have been observing the DApp's needs for ETH vs DAI. We are quickly moving towards a DAI heavy model.

My plan was to convert all the ETH to DAI that is needed slowly to hedge our exchange risk, converting more on positive days and less on negative days. Then at the end, find the average price of the conversion and divide it between the DACs using that average exchange rate. I am about 1 ETH away from achieving this assuming these loomio's don't go thru.

Here is the spreadsheet where I track the donations: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1buZEDn47jx7jkelKOl7BvdbWu_JF0JF1S93I3Sw0FGs/edit?usp=sharing

Here is the address that is holding these funds:
https://etherscan.io/address/0x8a1239fe1b3e2353b4b846dfd3ebf654e6a72f1e

Tension
The Giveth DAC has 35.7 ETH left form the Anon donation yet to be donated to the DAC, and the DAC needs DAI badly.

Proposal
Instead of converting only 25 ETH into DAI, we convert the entirety of the 35.7 ETH into DAI continuing to use the daily cost averaging method.

Results
Agree - 4
Abstain - 1
Disagree - 0
Block - 0
5 people have voted (10%)
Griff Green

Griff Green
Agree
January 26th, 2019 07:33

its really just converting 10.7 ETH into DAI to give the the DAC some extra DAI to play with... worthy of a loomio, but for transparency i wanted to detail out how everything is going.

Josh Fairhead

Josh Fairhead
Abstain
January 26th, 2019 20:38

I'm fine with said moves, Its good to be diversified though so a little Eth might not be a bad thing

Michael Roberts

Michael Roberts
Agree
January 30th, 2019 15:55

Michael Roberts

Michael Roberts
Agree
January 30th, 2019 15:55

Kay

Kay
Agree
January 31st, 2019 17:14

It is a bit sad to have to do this at this point in time - privately I would probably go for a CDP, but that is not an ideal solution as well. Seeing that we need DAI so much, I'll agree with the proposed solution.

Loie

Loie
Agree
January 31st, 2019 17:30

trusting the expertise on this as you griff are the closest to this issue every day, all the days

Josh Fairhead

Josh Fairhead February 1st, 2019 17:01

Raising thought: theres two proposals around similar agendas, can we batch them? It might be too early to tell but would it make sense to give someone a mandate to adjust ratios without polling? Or a board of people to do so? Or should this be case by case?