Current status of the crews

Bravo pour l'agenda !

Yeap, well done!

Crews work the way they like, but transparency is indeed mandatory

And even if it wasn't mandatory, I just try to imagine how a citizen from Ghent can see that Pirates are different from other parties :
- no contact address to ask for meetings information and meeting reports
- no clear agenda to access next meetings
- no meeting reports anywhere to find since almost 2 years
- rare answers when someone asks here on Loomio...

As a gentse citizen, I don't see how I could trust local Pirates (and therefore the whole Pirate Party) if they can't prove their honesty about transparency.

It's a big issue and I still don't have answers to why there is no transparency in Ghent. Tools exist and are now particularly easy to use.

There is something strange going on with the crew in Gent: I've put some items on the agenda about to respect the values of pirates, but they didn't give me the time, because the group decide to give the word to a member who introduced his 'plan' the whole evening.
I've defend the transparency, but they argument that our 'enemy's' don't have to read our plans. I've said that we don' t have to follow militair strategies as the "leader" now served in the army and I wonder what give them fear and paranoia.
I regret that way of working and some people don't come anymore to the meetings, Sarah is no more captain and stays away to spend more time to the civilian lists.
For the moment I'll stay in the crew to defend our principles and values.
Next meeting I'll repeat the item to use the tools like loomio and wiki and will be better prepared. I will propose what Valerie writes.
Every month we have a drink. There they invite only (new) people to come to the meetings who seems to have capability's and they communicate only using fakebook.
I'll try to come to the lab.

Thank you @pattico for these details.
Is there something Pirates can do to help you improve your internal transparency?

Not fot the moment. We gonna try to discuss first internal.

The next meeting for the crew of Gent is monday 3/04 starting at 19.30 at Sophie van Akenstraat 3C, 9000 Gent.
So far, there is no procedure. It seems that everyone can invite somebody to participate. If anyone is interested, I'll can invite him, at risk for ex-communication.
I will take that risk to make it more transparant.
Is the information on the wiki accessible for everyone?
Because that was the barrier to publish the meetings, saying that no outsider has to know the internal plans of a pirate crew.

English

One interesting question (for me) is :

Considering «by default» an outsider as a person who have the right to read an information.

The ousider can be a common folk, a citizen, a political adversary, a corporate business angel, or whatever, the list is not exaustive. In other words :
* a human being or a computer algorithm,
* who/wich have access to internet,
* who/wich can read and understand (or translate) what is written.

What kind of internal plan (information) does not have the right to be read?

Reminder : we talk about a pirate crew, not an individue and its intimacy.

Français

Une question intéressante (pour moi) est :

Considérant «par défaut» un inconnu en tant qu'une personne ayant le droit de lire une information.

L'inconnu pouvant être une personne commune, un citoyen, un adversaire politique, un investisseur entrepreneurial, ou quoi que ce soit, la liste n'étant pas exhaustive. En d'autres mots :

• un être humain ou un algorithme informatique,
• disposant d'un accès à internet,
• ayant le droit de lire et comprendre (ou traduire) ce qui est écrit.

Quel genre de plan interne (information) n'a pas le droit d'être lue?

Rappel : on parle d'un équipage pirate, pas d'un individu et de son intimité.

Nederlands (te vertalen)

Kunt u me helpen on te vertaalen ? : https://pad.pirateparty.be/p/droit_de_lecture

Thank you for the updates, @pattico :) Unfortunately, I couldn't attend this meeting, as I already planned to come to a debate organized by pirates from LLN that day.

I know that you are willing to make Gent's meetings more transparent, so thank you very much for that !

First, can we add this meeting on the (public) agenda, or do you think it wouldn't be a good idea considering the current situation ?

Yes, everything on the wiki is public ! Well, I'd like to remind them that our statutes clearly say that a crew must publish a report of every meeting. (It is also said that each crew must keep their wiki page updated...)

More importantly, in our Basic Text, it is written that:

Pirates advocate a more direct democracy: an open, pragmatic, dynamic, realistic and transparent system in which citizens have the opportunity and receive the right to participate, and are encouraged to do so.

Should I recall that Gent was a crucial actor of this Basic Text ? I know that the current members of the crew aren't the same, but still...

Member of crew Gent here.

Regarding the basic text:
"Pirates advocate a more direct democracy: an open, pragmatic, dynamic, realistic and transparent system in which citizens have the opportunity and receive the right to participate, and are encouraged to do so."

It means that this is how we want the political decision making process of society and the state to function: transparently, directly, and accessible to every citizen.

It does NOT mean that every group of people meeting towards a common goal should publish every discussion online, or that privacy should not be respected.

It does NOT mean that everyone with an opinion should be able to insert themselves into any work being done by a group of people under the guise of 'participation'. Imagine trying to build a website that way: skill and trust matter, it is NOT universally inclusive. Also, remember that even on a Pirate GA, not everyone who shows up has voting rights. Only members do.

And it certainly does NOT mean that majority decisions by the group should be disregarded by individual members, or that random people should be brought in from the outside to overrule those decisions, as it seems to be implied here.

Finally, if we're talking Pirate principles, maybe the concepts of 'bottom-up' and 'local' deserve a bit more respect. Crew Gent has done a lot of work in the past, and has a number of fairly work-intensive projects in the pipeline. We are trying to structure ourselves to organize this work, and as everybody here can appreciate, creating structure can be messy in the Pirate world.

If not everybody is happy with this, that's unfortunate but also to be expected. I would prefer to see more constructive attitudes, but shit happens. In any case, this is an advantage of bottom-up thinking: if you don't like it, nobody's stopping you do do it better.