Loomio
Sun 29 Dec 2019

Open Credit Network & Mutual Credit

OS
Oli SB Public Seen by 215

A place to discuss OCN https://opencredit.network/ and other related mutual credit and currency projects

OS

Oli SB Sat 5 Oct 2019

forked from another thread

Hi all... It's been a while coming ... but we finally have something to show... and I'd be really interested in feedback from as many people as possible in the OAE group... YOU (UK based folks for now) are our target market!

We’ve been trying to explain our mutual credit idea a bit better...
And now have a new video and FAQ etc

Please can you tell me what you think of this website: https://opencredit.network/
If you get the concept?
If you think the website, or the communication, could be better in any way?

SG

Simon Grant Wed 16 Oct 2019

I'd like to reply to this but want to make sure we get it on an appropriate thread. Please advise!

M

mike_hales Wed 16 Oct 2019

I think that to fork this, another thread needs to be created (or identified). Then there’s a command in the contextual menu for any comment. Anmyone want to create a thread (or volunteer an appropriate location)?

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Oli SB Sun 29 Dec 2019

Hi Simon, this thread now has an appropriate home so please feel free to reply ;)

OS

Oli SB Sun 29 Dec 2019

The latest news from OCN is that we have recently launched our Alpha software, which will be released as open source code very soon, making it easy for any other group anywhere in the world to set up their own mutual credit system. It's mainly written in Go with a postgres and mongo db and easy to follow installation notes using docker etc...

We're now working on an API to make it easy for others to plug in their services to OCN...

If anyone would like to join please go ahead (UK businesses only on OCN atm please) - and let us know if you have any feedback at all?

If anyone would like to look at / advise / help with / test the API - please let us know..?

And if anyone is interested in setting up their own version of OCN in their community please shout!?

If we can change the money system we can change EVERYTHING!... (Maybe... ;)

2020 might just be the year we start to tackle the current monopoly on credit creation ... https://economicrebellion.org/

LF

Lynn Foster Sun 29 Dec 2019

Hearty congratulations to OCN! 🌱

>If anyone would like to look at / advise / help with / test the API - please let us know..?

@Oli SB If you are interested in seeing if you can use ValueFlows partially or fully for your API, and/or contribute anything missing to it, let me know, I'd love to explore that with you. Just another step in trying to make all our efforts interoperable. 🙂

JF

Josh Fairhead Sun 29 Dec 2019

+1 for value flows as a sharable vocabulary

TB

Tiberius Brastaviceanu Mon 30 Dec 2019

I like your governance.

https://opencredit.network/membership-agreement/

How is this going to compete with the mutual credit they are building on Holo? Or to rephrase, how are you preparing knowing about Holo?

VG

Vincenzo Giorgino Mon 30 Dec 2019

Hi Oli, thank your for your invitation.

DH

Daniel Harris Tue 31 Dec 2019

Hi @Oli SB after getting the information from Geoff about your API we have been able to build some interfaces for your API endpoint using Kendraio App, Kendraio Adapter and Kendraio Flow. This is purely for illustration purposes as your API endpoint is not yet connected to your live server/database. However it's a good illustration of what Kendraio App can do. This is also documented here. Enjoy...

https://app.kendra.io/core/adapters

https://app.kendra.io/mccs/editBusiness

Let me know if you have any comments/questions.

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Oli SB Tue 7 Jan

Hi Tib, thanks, we have been working hard on governance as this seems KEY!

We're chatting with Holo... our plans are to use the (initially centralized) software we have built to grow a community of interested and active businesses... without which there is no way this can work. If we can manage that then we can have plans for 'federation' - and it would be great if Holo was able to offer us a simple and effective method of doing that... TBC

OS

Oli SB Tue 7 Jan

Hi Daniel, that looks great - can you explain in super-basic english what that means and what value it adds...? How it would work / be used in a practical example? I have an idea but am not an API developer and it would be great if you could explain it for me, and any others here, who might like to gain some understanding. Thanks!

DH

Daniel Harris Tue 7 Jan

Hi @Oli SB . So, in order to evaluate/test an API there is no better way than to plug an app into it. Because that's what an API is for: plugging (third party) apps and services into your system. So, if Kendraio App can interact with your API then it shows that your API works and is functioning in its current conceptual (?) form. The stated aim of Kendraio App is to provide a dashboard for a person to better manage their digital life: whether their business life or their personal life. So, being able to interact with your system without having to use your website is our stated aim. We feel that the benefits to users is going to be incredible: all your/my/whomever's services in one place – as good as "all your websites in one browser" was in the mid 90s but better. ;-) Also, service providers will no longer need to spend so much money on their from end – if they don't want to. Sorry, I digress. Suffice to say that we are testing your API with our App. Other people will come along with different aims to Kendraio's and different reasons to want to integrate with your system. Does that help?

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Oli SB Wed 8 Jan

yes! it helps a lot - thank you :) I like it...!

TB

Tiberius Brastaviceanu Wed 8 Jan

@Daniel Harris I like the browser analogy.

TB

Tiberius Brastaviceanu Wed 8 Jan

Hi @olisb
I understand that you are the marketing guy for OCN. I was poking around to find more about your project. I am going to share some links here for those who are interested to digg more.
https://financeinnovationlab.org/meet-the-fellows-dave-and-dil-open-credit-network/

https://opencollective.com/open-credit-network

https://www.thenews.coop/137939/topic/financial/switching-uk-mutual-credit/
Twitter and LinkedIn not very active.

As for the software used, mutual credit software is not new. Also, I didn't find programmers in your team, I suppose that you are already using or starting with some existing open source software? I could not find a forum or a repo for OCN. Perhaps Matthew Slater is behind the code? If so, he's pretty good. But I am still skeptical that traditional tools can do better than new p2p technologies.

https://www.lowimpact.org/money-system-open-credit-network/

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Oli SB Sun 12 Jan

Hi Tib :)
Thanks for poking around and sharing links!
Yes, I do marketing for various clients and projects - OCN is one of my main projects, and we are aiming to grow considerably in 2020 so I have my work cut out... if you know anyone who might be interested in volunteering or supporting us in any way we would love to hear from them.

Thanks also for linking to our Open Collective page - we have not publicised that much yet but need to as we have ongoing costs (mainly server and other IT costs which our lead developer is currently paying from his own pocket!)... @Leo Sammallahti just signed up and to give us £5/ month, possibly as a result of your post Tib, WHOO HOO! Thanks Leo - you're the best ;)

We do have a social media volunteer - but yes, we need to post on Twitter and LinkedIn more...

As for software, we spent a while reviewing the existing MC systems out there... the main option (obviously) being Cyclos. However, on inspection we found this, and the other systems we looked at, too old and clunky for our needs, we wanted something very simple, which works well for our needs... so we started from scratch and have built something, working with a couple of volunteer coders (who are not part of our immediate team - hence not mentioned on the site) which we are calling the "Mutual Credit Communication System" - MCCS. We are now preparing to open source this in the next few weeks - and I will link to the repo from here when we do. In the readme we will spell out our road map too - as we want people to understand our plans and intentions.

Matt has been an advisor all the way through the process, his work on Credit Commons has been an inspiration for us and some form of Global Credit Commons, which links up all the various mutual credit networks, is our vision. See more at the end of our about page https://opencredit.network/about/ and the last FAQ in the Philosophy section https://opencredit.network/faq/

We recognise that the centralised (i.e. single database) MCCS system we have designed and built is NOT the final solution... and will not help us get to the p2p global credit commons... but we see it as an important step in this learning exercise, which will (hopefully!) help us (and others) grow a community of Trading Members ... and developers who are interested in the project, so we will then be in a better place to switch to a p2p version (possibly on Holo) once to tools and the software are ready...

We are working in tandem with the Economic Rebellion project on this vision - hopefully, if enough people realise the essential role of "money" in delivering system change 2020 might be the year we break free...

DH

Daniel Harris Sun 12 Jan

@Oli SB Very quick response: you are doing it the right way. Solve a specific problem and get people using it. A centralised service is not a requirement at this stage – adoption is. Having an API will take you further down the road of interoperability. As Matt and Tim have penned, there is a need for an open protocol to join everyone up and reduce barriers to entry. But in the meantime APIs will get us some of the way, in terms of learning. And, as you say, so may P2P and Holo. But we need to start now with what we have. I also want to seed into our community's mindset the concept of strong individual groups (with governance boundaries) linked together by strong messaging (APIs and open protocols). This is how the Internet works and why it is so robust. Collectively we need to do the same. So, we don't all need to sign up to the same service but we need to interoperate all the services. Also, known as federated systems. And if we get to a point where P2P systems really can work and scale then great, the port over should be painless because we've done all the hard work already. Ta da! As you say, let's do it in 2020!

OS

Oli SB Mon 13 Jan

and here's the link to the code... https://github.com/ic3network/mccs
Please do let us know if you have any comments / feedback ;)