Loomio
Mon 30 Apr 2018

Ours to Hack and to Own: The Rise of Platform Cooperativism. A New Vision for the Future Of Work and a Fairer Internet.

MN
Matt Noyes Public Seen by 385

This thread is for planning and updates on discussion of the third reading group book. See the full list here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZvZ_MLq1dAVBCY7-e9Iylg-qxWYqkcptjvOnkyOTeTA/edit#gid=0

MN

Matt Noyes started a time poll Mon 30 Apr 2018

Voice chat to discuss Ours to Hack and to Own Closed Mon 7 May 2018

Outcome
by Matt Noyes Mon 7 May 2018

I chose June 22, 8:00am because it gives us the most people with the best gender parity. I hope others will be able to join as well! Now we have our chat date, read on!

Please choose the dates/times you can meet. Feel free to suggest additional dates/times.

JH
CW
MN
MC
MK
DU
Total
Thu 21 Jun 2018, 20:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
1
Thu 21 Jun 2018, 08:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
4
Fri 22 Jun 2018, 08:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
5
Fri 22 Jun 2018, 20:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
1
Sat 23 Jun 2018, 08:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
5
Sat 23 Jun 2018, 20:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
2
Fri 22 Jun 2018, 15:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
5
Thu 21 Jun 2018, 15:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
6
Tue 26 Jun 2018, 15:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
3
Tue 26 Jun 2018, 08:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
2
Tue 26 Jun 2018, 06:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
1
N

Neil - @neil@social.coop Mon 30 Apr 2018

Thu 21 Jun 2018

I'm away that weekend unfortunately! Might be able to make the Thursday time but not sure yet.

JH

Jeff Hardin Mon 30 Apr 2018

I'll be reading and following along with you on the group page but will not be able to join the chat. Have fun!

MK

Michele Kipiel Wed 2 May 2018

Sat 23 Jun 2018

This is a very tough array of options, especially as half the options are 2am in my timezone... Could you add a few extra, less extreme ones? Thanks!

MK

Michele Kipiel Sun 6 May 2018

Tue 26 Jun 2018
Thu 21 Jun 2018
Fri 22 Jun 2018
Sat 23 Jun 2018
Fri 22 Jun 2018

This is a very tough array of options, especially as half the options are 2am in my timezone... Could you add a few extra, less extreme ones? Thanks!

MN

Matt Noyes Mon 30 Apr 2018

Three ideas:
a) Should each person choose a chapter they'd most like to discuss?
b) Should we invite chapter authors who are on social.coop to join the discussion? (e.g. @ntnsndr )
c) [your ideas here]

MN

Matt Noyes Tue 1 May 2018

Do feel free to add alternative dates/times

MN

Matt Noyes Wed 2 May 2018

@michelekipiel -- Can you suggest times that would work for you? I think you can add them directly to the time poll

MN

Matt Noyes Fri 4 May 2018

I added several time slots, trying to find times that are possible for Tokyo, Colorado Springs, and Rome! (And in between) So Please vote again, even if you already voted!

MK

Michele Kipiel Thu 10 May 2018

@mattnoyes just to clarify: what timezone would that be? Thanks! :)

MN

Matt Noyes Thu 10 May 2018

Friday, June 22 8am in Colorado Springs (mountain time in USA) --> https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?month=6&day=22&year=2018&p1=398&p2=248&iv=0

MK

Michele Kipiel Sun 13 May 2018

So 4pm CEST. Noted! :)

MN

Matt Noyes started a ranked choice Wed 30 May 2018

Which chapters from Ours to Hack and to Own do we want to discuss? Closed Sat 9 Jun 2018

Outcome
by Matt Noyes Sat 9 Jun 2018

Four people voted on chapters from Ours to Hack and to Own they want to discuss on June 22nd, 8:00am U.S. Mountain Time (See the thread on Loomio for your local time.) The top five chapters are:
28. Michel Bauwens and Vasilis Kostakis: Why Platform Co-ops Should Be Open Co-ops
15. Janelle Orsi: Three Essential Building Blocks for Your Platform Cooperative
36. Mayo Fuster Morell: Toward a Theory of Value for Platform Cooperatives
13. David Bollier: From Open Access to Digital Commons
34. Micky Metts: Meet Your Friendly Neighborhood Tech Co-op
You can see the full list in the Loomio thread for this poll.

Indicate the top 8-10 chapters you most want to discuss. If you are willing to start discussion on a chapter, please post a comment to that effect. For chapters written by social.coop members, we may be able to invite them to the discussion or set up an additional chat.

1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 10th Total
 
28. Michel Bauwens and Vasilis Kostakis: Why Platform Co-ops Should Be Open Co-ops 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 28
 
15. Janelle Orsi: Three Essential Building Blocks for Your Platform Cooperative 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 19
 
36. Mayo Fuster Morell: Toward a Theory of Value for Platform Cooperatives 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 17
 
13. David Bollier: From Open Access to Digital Commons 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 17
 
34. Micky Metts: Meet Your Friendly Neighborhood Tech Co-op 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 15
 
25. Saskia Sassen: Making Apps for Low-wage Workers and Their Neighborhoods 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 13
 
20. Cameron Tonkinwise: Convenient Solidarity: Designing for Platform Cooperativism 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 11
 
39. Rachel O’Dwyer: Blockchains and Their Pitfalls 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 10
 
14. Yochai Benkler: The Realism of Cooperativism 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 10
 
16. Caroline Woolard: So You Want to Start a Platform Cooperative 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 9
 
8. McKenzie Wark: Worse Than Capitalism 0 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 9
 
26. Kristy Milland: The Crowd: Naturally Cooperative, Unnaturally Silenced? 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 7
 
24. Ra Criscitiello: There is Platform-Power in a Union 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 7
 
2. Nathan Schneider: The Meanings of Words 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0 7
 
9. Steven Hill: How the Un-Sharing Economy Threatens Workers 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 6
 
30. Brendan Martin: Money is the Root of All Platforms 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 5
 
29. John Duda: Beyond Luxury Cooperativism 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 5
 
27. Tom Slee: Platforms and Trust: Beyond Reputation Systems 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 4
 
35. Michael Peck: Building the People’s Ownership Economy through Union Co-ops 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 3
 
22. Danny Spitzberg: How Crowdfunding Becomes Stewardship 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 3
 
17. Melissa Hoover: What We Mean When We Say “Cooperatives” 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 3
 
11. Kati Sipp: Portable Reputation in the On-demand Economy 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 3
 
37. Francesca Bria: Public Policies for Digital Sovereignty 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 2
 
18. David Carroll: A Different Kind of Startup is Possible 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 2
 
5. Jessica Gordon Nembhard: Eight Facts about Cooperative Enterprise 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 2
 
40. Astra Taylor: Non-Cooperativism 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
 
38. Miriam Cherry: Legal and Governance Structures Built to Share 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
 
23. Arun Sundararajan: Economic Barriers and Enablers of Distributed Ownership 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1
 
33. Palak Shah: A Code for Good Work 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
 
32. Karen Gregory: Can Code Schools Go Cooperative? 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
 
31. Carmen Rojas: From People-Centered Ideas to People-Powered Capital 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
 
21. Seda Gurses: Designing for Privacy 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
 
19. Marina Gorbis: Designing Positive Platforms 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
 
12. Dmytri Kleiner: Counterantidisintermediation 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
 
10. Christoph Spehr: SpongeBob, Why Don’t You Work Harder? 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
 
7. Juliet Schor: Old Exclusion in Emergent Spaces 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
 
6. Douglas Rushkoff: Renaissance Now 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
 
4. Susie Cagle: The Seven Cooperative Principles 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0
 
3. Trebor Scholz: How Platform Cooperativism Can Unleash the Network 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
MC

Matthew Cropp Wed 30 May 2018

@mattnoyes one thing I've found with Ranked choice is that it starts to get unwieldly when there are more than 8-10 choices, so it can be helpful to limit it to "rank your top 8 or 10" when there are more than that.

MN

Matt Noyes Wed 30 May 2018

I was wondering about that -- I was thinking top 5, initially, but let's try with 8 or 10.

MC

Matthew Cropp Wed 30 May 2018

Top 5 would probably yield a good mix

MC

Matthew Cropp Wed 30 May 2018

Do you know how to do it, or want me to edit it?

MN

Matt Noyes Wed 30 May 2018

With so many options, there is a chance none of your top five would make it into the mix, right? Ten gives you a better shot?

MC

Matthew Cropp Wed 30 May 2018

Updated it to allow for 10 choices.

MC

Matthew Cropp Wed 30 May 2018

Matt, can you re-vote, it looks like you voted before I changed it to only include top 10

MN

Matt Noyes Wed 30 May 2018

Revoted, but no change?

MN

Matt Noyes Thu 14 Jun 2018

Okay friends, a reminder that our discussion of Ours to Hack and to Own is a week from Firday, June 22nd, 8:00am U.S. Mountain Time. The top five chapters we want to discuss are:
Michel Bauwens and Vasilis Kostakis: Why Platform Co-ops Should Be Open Co-ops
Janelle Orsi: Three Essential Building Blocks for Your Platform Cooperative
Mayo Fuster Morell: Toward a Theory of Value for Platform Cooperatives
David Bollier: From Open Access to Digital Commons
Micky Metts: Meet Your Friendly Neighborhood Tech Co-op
These are all incredibly relevant to ongoing discussions about social.coop, Mastodon, github/lab, and more. Let's use riot.im with etherpad and jitsi.

https://riot.im/app/#/room/#ourstohackandown:matrix.org

M

mike_hales Thu 14 Jun 2018

@mattnoyes Does it matter that I haven’t the faintest idea what etherpad or jitsi might be? Are they tied to an OS? Am a chat room novice, also - so likely to take a back seat.

CW

Our meeting starts at 8 am Mtn time. I will join you late, closer to 8:30 am Mtn time.

MN

Matt Noyes started a check Thu 14 Jun 2018

Joining the Reading Group Meeting on the 22nd? Closed Mon 18 Jun 2018

Please RSVP about your participation in the discussion of Ours to Hack and to Own. Also -- which chapter do you want to introduce, to start dicussion (you can ask questions, choose a favorite point, focus on what is confusing -- any starting point is good). These are the ones we chose in our poll (but feel free to choose a different one):
Michel Bauwens and Vasilis Kostakis: Why Platform Co-ops Should Be Open Co-ops
Janelle Orsi: Three Essential Building Blocks for Your Platform Cooperative
Mayo Fuster Morell: Toward a Theory of Value for Platform Cooperatives
David Bollier: From Open Access to Digital Commons
Micky Metts: Meet Your Friendly Neighborhood Tech Co-op

7 - Yes
4 - No
MN

Matt Noyes
Yes
Thu 14 Jun 2018

I am happy to introduce the Micky Metts chapter.

MK

Michele Kipiel
Yes
Thu 14 Jun 2018

I'd love to discuss chapter 28

M

mike_hales
Yes
Thu 14 Jun 2018

Have not read the book yet. From titles, I might want to open on the Morell. But am a chatroom novice, so would be glad to have another person alongside on this.

N

Neil - @neil@social.coop
No
Thu 14 Jun 2018

I'm away that weekend.

GA

Gabriela Avram
No
Mon 18 Jun 2018

Travelling again...so can't make it!

DU

[deactivated account]
No
Mon 18 Jun 2018

The timing of the meeting sadly doesn’t work with my schedule of getting myself and family out to school and work. Sorry to miss it!

CW

I’ve read (or will have read) these five chapters. Some of the technical discussion is beyond my understanding.

DK

Derek Kozel
Yes
Mon 18 Jun 2018

I can do chapter 36 with Mike Hales?

MN

Matt Noyes Thu 14 Jun 2018

@mikeh8 For the chat, I will post the link again a day before the chat. You just open the webpage in your browser (there is an app, too). You do not need to register, but you have the option of choosing a screen name. You will see three things: an Etherpad window, a Jitsi window, and below them a chat area. Etherpad is just a simple note-taking tool so we can see the agenda and take notes as we go. Jitsi is an online chat tool (like Skype or hangouts) that is also very easy to use. (If we have bandwidth issues, I may switch us to Zoom (also very easy to use). I suggest checking out the Riot.im chat room before we meet, so you can get used to the interface: https://riot.im/app/#/room/#ourstohackandown:matrix.org

M

mike_hales Mon 18 Jun 2018

Have read the Morell and happy to open on it, will read at least the other four top-rated chapters too. Just four of us in the room?

M

mike_hales Mon 18 Jun 2018

Thanks @derekkozel for coming alongside on ch 36. I've read all five now . . and 'value' comes up a lot across the field. So the theme of ch 36 is general, rather than chapter-specific. And quite fuzzy? To discuss.

DK

Derek Kozel Mon 18 Jun 2018

I'm playing catch-up, having just found the reading group a few days ago. I've skimmed chapter 36 and will properly take notes tonight and read the other four before the call.

DK

Derek Kozel Fri 22 Jun 2018

I'm sorry. I was expecting to be able to get out of work a little early to make this, but some tasks have come up and I won't be able to make it. I'll be sure to plan farther ahead for the next meet up. I don't know if the next book has been chosen, but I would like to give a vote for Humanizing the Economy, I did a recent read through (part of the reason I'm here) and would enjoy being able to discuss it.

MN

Matt Noyes Fri 22 Jun 2018

The meeting is live now on Zoom https://zoom.us/j/743371724

ED

emi do Fri 22 Jun 2018

Thanks for a thought provoking and mind bending reading group discussion:)
Notes from the reading group can be found here: https://scalar.vector.im/etherpad/p/!IOUzXVGKiEdvSEsCAd_matrix.org

M

mike_hales Fri 22 Jun 2018

Here are my notes on chapter 34, Morell, Towards a theory of value. They include some post-meeting add-ins.
Topics are:
- 1 Platform coops and libertarian-socialist commitments
- 2 Morell’s project, the P2P Value Directory project - Platform developers vs platform users?
- 3 Value in the storefront, value in the back office?
- 4 Is social.coop competing with corporate platforms? Operating both open and closed platform-space
- 5 Adjudication of conflicts
- 6 Intellectual property, copyfair, livelihood
- 7 How much does code forking matter in social.coop?
- 8 What’s the nature of the P2P commons that social.coop is cultivating?

MK

Michele Kipiel Sun 1 Jul 2018

Here's the call link, see you in a little more than an hour!

https://meet.jit.si/RoundTwo

MK

Michele Kipiel Sun 1 Jul 2018

Sorry my bad! It's 10pm CEST not 8pm CEST :) Sorry everyone for the mistake!

GA

Gabriela Avram Mon 2 Jul 2018

So sorry, I saw this and I was still on the road, so I thought I won't make it! Missed it again! I thought my calculation was wrong...

MN

Matt Noyes Sun 1 Jul 2018

M

mike_hales Mon 2 Jul 2018

@mattnoyes @michelekipiel Here are notes following our reading group session yesterday. Thoughts on paid work, economic outcomes and multipliers, social use-value of the social.coop platform architecture (much bigger than UX), facilitative skills and commitments, the value of the mix of platforms within social.coop. Thoughts on commons development as distinct from (in partnership with) the coop-meets-FLOSS mission @michelbauwens1 @staccotroncoso Absolutely without prejudice to the urgent need to strengthen the tech base of social.coop Mastodon, and give relief to the over-taxed tech core of volunteers, tooted by @robertbenjamin in Mastodon just as I was uploading this (which I have boosted).

M

mike_hales Mon 2 Jul 2018

@asimong You might find echoes in this note, of what was being discussed a few weeks back in Commons Transition UK (support networks/face to face)? Would be good to know whether you feel this time it gets anywhere nearer to your issue? Or to concerns of CoTech maybe? Best wishes

MB

Michel Bauwens Tue 3 Jul 2018

great initiative, really glad to see progress and hard work, will read with interest

MK

Michele Kipiel Wed 4 Jul 2018

Great stuff! Thank you for taking the time to formalize some of the million thoughts we threw around during the call :)

M

mike_hales Thu 5 Jul 2018

There was another million thoughts about whether we can realistically expect to drive netarchical capital off the edge of the Discworld using forces of production composed of federated cooperatively governed instances of FLOS Software! A commons of platforms. I'm trying to write a note about that as well. It will take a minute or two! I don't know if your brain's still aching? Mine is :thinking:

MK

Michele Kipiel Thu 5 Jul 2018

So much to read, write, think, so little time (mainly due to the fact I need to sell my labour for salary under capitalism)! I think we're doing great stuff, though, both as an instance and as individual thinkers :)

M

mike_hales Thu 5 Jul 2018

It does make a difference that I'm 'retired from work' as they jokingly say. Back in wage-earning days I had to work this hard just to put food in the family fridge and pay the 'cultural and emotional rent' on my office workspace :slight_frown:

M

mike_hales Thu 12 Jul 2018

Readers in this part of the thread maybe should also take a look at support networks with a face-to-face element over in Commons Transition?

Does anyone know how to invite one thread/group into another, in Loomio? I know how to invite 'outside' individuals to a thread. But not how to embrace a whole set of Loomio folks, in one invitation. Will try to check this out with the Loomio devs. It's basic community literacy?

MB

Michel Bauwens Thu 12 Jul 2018

perhaps @staccotroncoso (+staccotroncoso?) can help with the loomio query, or point to someone who can ?

M

mike_hales Mon 16 Jul 2018

Loomio devs say . . . The answer to the trans-group linkup query is . . 'outsider' individuals can be invited to a thread, by the thread coordinator/s. But not entire sets of people (eg entire threads in other groups). Invited persons can be Loomio members (invited by Loomio ID) or others (invited by email address).

M

mike_hales Wed 15 Aug 2018

@michelekipiel @mattnoyes @emido If this discussion hasn't gone stale . . I doubt I'm going to manage to write the note I was thinking of in this comment. Especially, I was thinking of engaging with Dymitri Kleiner's Telekommunist market-anarchism perspective. But I have had an exchange with @michelbauwens1 about class(es), P2P politics and the transition beyond capitalism. Below are three pieces by Michel that bear on the social.coop project, not just in a general way but also in simple ways - like, whether social.coop folks can realistically expect to get paid for social.coop work, in the longer term; or whether the project exists essentially in 'volunteer' space. The recent precariat piece is specially interesting?

MK

Michele Kipiel Thu 16 Aug 2018

Thanks for sharing, it will be a pleasure to read these!