February 25th, 2019 06:40

Pirate help needed - Pirate hulp nodig - Besoin d'aide des pirates

[deactivated account] Public Seen by 141

(English) Attention: I don't speak well neither Dutch nor French, so I will post in English and I hope you don't mind using an automatic translation tool to read my message in your language, and to post your replies in English too (this will make the conversation more compact).
(Français) Attention: je ne parle pas bien ni le néerlandais ni le français, je posterai donc en anglais. J'espère que cela ne vous dérange pas d'utiliser un outil de traduction automatique pour lire mon message dans votre langue et pour poster vos réponses également en anglais (ceci rendra la conversation plus compacte).
(Nederlands) Let op: ik spreek niet goed, noch Nederlands noch Frans, dus ik zal in het Engels posten en ik hoop dat je het niet erg vindt om een automatisch vertaalhulpmiddel te gebruiken om mijn bericht in je taal te lezen en om je antwoorden ook in het Engels te plaatsen (dit maakt het gesprek compacter).

Dear current and future Pirate friends,

As you might have seen, this Wednesday I am organizing the "Gathering to discuss the 2019 European election in Belgium". I promoted a post on Facebook and it got comments, so that seems to indicate interest and it might be that there are new people to the Pirate Party joining the event. I'm quite new too, oficially since June 21st 2018. I have never been to a Pirate Lab and I still do not know about all the insights that you have cultivated over the years. This might be a problem for the event, because people might ask me questions that I don't know how to answer, or there might be situations I might not be able to deal with in the Pirate way. For this reason I would like to ask for your help. If you are interested in helping out, please drop me a line (dacuetu at gmail.com) and we'll meet a bit before the event to discuss things. I need help with co-facilitation (we have only 2h so we have to move through the schedule efficiently), note taking, and just experience with Pirate events. If you really cannot come, I would appreciate your input on the following:
1) Are there any kind of behavioral guidelines to keep the facebook nastiness away and focus on being productive?
2) What is acceptable to ask to enter a Pirate event? There is no registration list, so is it ok to ask on the spot for name and email to join the event?
3) If by some chance there would be enough people to decide to collect the signatures, and go on the European election list, how do you know who to trust? Is it necessary to meet the people one or several times until is it reasonable to assume that they understand the Pirate Party motivations, and that some key Pirate Party members understand their own motivations too?



[deactivated account] February 25th, 2019 06:49

Oh, and another thing. If the people there decide to start collecting signatures and go for the elections, is it possible to use some PPBE money for promoting the collection of signatures and the candidates on Facebook? If I understood correctly this thread (https://www.loomio.org/d/DzuK0Zdi/money-from-ppbe-for-the-elections) there are 1500 available for the Flemish section, 1500 for the Wallonian section, and 1500 for future operations. My question is: can this event be used by Belgian Pirates to commit 500 EUR from the Wallonian section and 500 EUR from the Flemish section for the European elections?


Michel Braibant February 25th, 2019 09:57

Well, in other words, you ask for one third of our budget for a bet. And want to give this money to Facebook, with no European list in Wallonia... Really?


[deactivated account] February 25th, 2019 10:09

Yes, elections are always a bet. The question is, is it a good or a bad bet? Let's wait until Wednesday to find out.


[deactivated account] February 25th, 2019 10:11

Why do you think there will be no list in Wallonia? We still don't know if people will be interested. If they are not, we cannot force them to make a list, can we?


Michel Braibant February 25th, 2019 10:11

Elections are a bet, yes. But here, we do not speak about elections. It's all about collecting signatures.


[deactivated account] February 25th, 2019 10:14

Obviously we won't spend 1k EUR collecting signatures, it will be much less, and if we can't make it, there's always the choice of giving up.


Michel Braibant February 25th, 2019 10:15

Still not convinced. Way too late for that.


[deactivated account] February 25th, 2019 10:16

Way too late for what?


Michel Braibant February 25th, 2019 10:20

Do you have a list? Do these people know the pirate party a little bit?

Ilja Baert

Ilja Baert February 25th, 2019 21:44

1) Yes, we have https://wiki.pirateparty.be/Internal_Democracy/Guidelines But if you already state that there is a 2h limit and you want to "to move through the schedule efficiently" than I don't think this will really work out tbh. One of the key-point in the guidelines is "no timepressure", which is an important one if you want to keep the nastiness away
2) Events are typically open to all, so there's nothing to ask for. It's always nice to introduce yourself if you first meet (whether it's with your 'official' name or nickname or whatever). If you want to keep contact afterwards, exchanging contact-information can always be done, but no one should ever be obliged to.
3) This is a moot point imo because
a) You prob won't have enough (correct) people to form a EU list (min 7 per list, 50/50 M/V),
b) Even if you find the right people (and I hope you do), it's very unlikely to be able to collect enough signatures and
c) In the very unlikely event that a valid list is formed and enough validated signatures collected, there's still the 5% electoral threshold before the votes can even start to count for a seat

Money is a moot point for the same reasons, but if a list is formed, it will either be a separate thing that needs to take care of it's own funding, or it will be part of the general elections in which case it will be part of the campaign of the relevant region and therefore will have to share, in agreement with the people active in the ppbe, the €1500 budget made available for the elections in that region. So I think it's gonna be on the people who do the EU-campaign to gain the trust of the people active in the ppbe. We've had abuses in the past, I don't think anyone wants to repeat that.

Lander Meeusen

Lander Meeusen February 26th, 2019 14:45

We have already started collecting a few signatures online with the eID on the Flemish side. People can give us their e-mailadres and we send them a link. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfL1izQV_rCMt7aA91E4bwVOLwk5ESKycgEVuXL47ePprtm1w/viewform?fbclid=IwAR3RxEtgWuvpAg4JWKkc1sT4MvR8lD56YsCUEjXxzZVC-rO_1rKXLsDuLD4

Not a lot of response yet.

Ilja Baert

Ilja Baert February 26th, 2019 20:59

There's also a form on the site since this weekend https://nl.pirateparty.be/help-ons-met-de-deelname-aan-de-verkiezingen/

From the main-site > Verkiezingen!


[deactivated account] February 27th, 2019 06:37

@iljabaert Thanks a lot for your message, it was really helpful. I will keep in mind what you mention.

Renaud Van Eeckhout

Renaud Van Eeckhout February 27th, 2019 11:35

Please, stop using the Google Forms, it hurts everyone's credibility here ("Hello, we are the privacy-friendly party and we want you to give sensitive data on this Google form"), also alternatives exist, there is one now on the ppbe website, and your own website is a wordpress so it's easy to set up a form there.

Is there still a reason to keep using these Google tools now?