Domain expired Social Coop down

@Flancian @Ed Summers

1. I can add a member of TWG/CWG. Please let me know. I have not pushed this forward within the Telegram group as I believe we should either (1.) wait for a proper transition or a co-operative arrangement between P6 and Innovation‍.coop; or (2.) act with some urgency and create a proposal specific to the ownership of the social‍.coop domain name.

2. The Registrant would be “Innovation Cooperative Limited”.

Cross posting from the broader thread (Open Collective Host & Platform 6) but here are what I believe should be our next steps:

1. A member of P6 (perhaps @Andrew Escobar (Andres) or @Graham) will provide social‍.coop members with an update on the transition or co-operative arrangement between P6 and Innovation‍.coop — but we are waiting on those details (proposal: sense check).

2. Innovation‍.coop and P6 will take their necessary steps.

3. Innovation‍.coop may already be our fiscal host or P6 may continue to be our fiscal — it all depends on the transition or co-operative arrangement — but social‍.coop members can then chose to validate this continued relationship (proposal: consensus). The proposal can specifically mention Innovation‍.coop as the new Registrant of our our social‍.coop domain and any additional domains.

4. We can then update the domain records for “Innovation Cooperative Limited” to become the Registrant of our social‍.coop domain.

@Graham, @Flancian, @Nathan Schneider: I now think that we should push this forward with option (2.) above: act with some urgency and create a proposal specific to the ownership of the “social‍.coop” domain name.

The Registrant of the “social‍.coop” domain would be changed to “Innovation Cooperative Limited”.

(I would suggest Admin be listed as Innovation and Technical be listed as a generic or group address for the TWG; no individual should assume the legal liability of being listed as Admin.)

Are there other details that should be included in the proposal? The Registrar used (continue to use Gandi.net or transfer to Domains.coop or Hover.com for example)? Specific initial access details or general delegation to TWG?

@Andrew Escobar (Andres) thanks for continuing work on this. I am not even sure we need a proposal, getting control over the domain is something that should have been done all along. But we should do a proposal to ensure everyone knows about the fiscal host shift.

Meanwhile, can I help you get in touch with Enric? Or is @Graham on it? Let's proceed with getting the domain. I would advocate moving to domains.coop to support the co-op movement.

@Nathan Schneider I am in a shared telegram chat with you, Enric, and Graham. (We can also add @Flancian or another TWG member.)

I’m not sure we’re ready for a consensus proposal for fiscal host transition (legal details and next steps not finalized) which is why I suggest a proposal specific to the domain Registrant only.

Hmm. This seems a bit strange. Could we just transfer the domain to P6 for now, and then have it move over to Innovation when that transition happens? It just seems strange to once again move the domain to a third party.

A bit of info here: while the technical detail of the relationship between P6 and innovation.coop is still being worked through, in practice on a day to day basis the people with their hands on the tiller for the two organisations are the same for both orgs. In terms of the registration of the domain name, this in my view is the hardest bit to make happen because we remain reliant on Enric's participation and support, and right now it doesn't seem like he is engaging with the Telegram thread, where I have posted details of how to change the registrant record for the domain , and have not heard anything back that I'm aware of. Do we have any other line of communication with him?

@Darren, any insight on how we can contact Enric Duran beyond just Telegram?

@Andrew Escobar (Andres) One thought is I could reach out to Domains.coop and try to get control of the domain that way.

I just tried to open a ticket. Let's see if they can help.

@Nathan Schneider While domains.coop is a subsidiary and the team is the same, we should contact identity.coop which is the .COOP Registry. We can hopefully proceed with an informal process that leads to the domain name being transferred. We ideally avoid a formal dispute resolution process ($1500 to WIPO as selected by identity.coop; a significant effort on my part).

@Andrew Escobar (Andres) hey there. Not sure. They are semi-public online so likely would be able to track down other ways to contact them.

Just checked and theres no contact emails listed with the domain registration.

@Andrew Escobar (Andres) I know people at domains.coop - there is a Chinese wall between them and the registry operation, and I agree that this is an avenue to pursue. There's a compelling case.

@Graham Sounds good. Please do reach out to them. I just wrote to Gandi with the following:

Dear Gandi,

I am representing Social.coop, a project of the UK-based cooperative Platform6. Our domain name was registered with you by an early participant in our group, Enric Duran, but we have been unable to get in touch with him and are concerned about losing access to the domain. Can you assist us in regaining access to the domain administration?

Thank you, Nathan

@Nathan Schneider That’s a good start. I don’t think the TWG submitted expense receipts for these, but might be worth attaching those to the ticket with Gandi, and letting them know we’ve paid to renew the domain two years in a row!

I’ve also reached out to the .COOP Registry about this.

I reached out directly to the .COOP Registry (DotCooperation LLC, identity.coop), who reached out to Gandi, who were not at all helpful:

[…] if they [social.coop] really cannot prove a link with the current owner, it doesn’t matter if the organisation [fair.coop] is defunct or not. We [Ghandi] will not be able to help them [social.coop] get access to a domain name over which they don’t have any rights.

@Nathan Schneider Any updates from your end with Gandi? @Graham Should we try and reach Enric through other channels?

I will continue to work with the .COOP Registry on a resolution. We can hopefully resolve this through an informal process that leads to the domain name being transferred (level 3 under the .coop dispute policy) but that may require formal dispute resolution process (requires $1500 to WIPO as selected by identity.coop; a significant effort on my part; and sufficient records and documentation from the early days of social.coop about the registration of our domain name).

This is a systemic issue, we had the same in CDS - solution: have a non dominant person being „The Queen“ in a long term crucial owner role without acting in a political way out of the power position. To my knowledge there is no workaround.

Andrew Escobar (Andres) · Finance Working Group (via Loomio) schrieb am Mo. 18. Dez. 2023 um 21:21:



AEF

Andrew Escobar (Andres) · Finance Working Group hat kommentiert in: Domain expired Social Coop down ( https://www.loomio.com/d/Jf5Wi4Ph/comment/3033064?utm_campaign=new_comment&utm_medium=email )

I reached out directly to the .COOP Registry (DotCooperation LLC, identity.coop) ( http://www.identity.coop/ ), who reached out to Gandi, who were not at all helpful:

[…] if they [social.coop ( http://social.coop )] really cannot prove a link with the current owner, it doesn’t matter if the organisation [fair.coop ( http://fair.coop )] is defunct or not. We [Ghandi] will not be able to help them [social.coop ( http://social.coop )] get access to a domain name over which they don’t have any rights.

@Nathan Schneider Any updates from your end with Gandi? @Graham Should we try and reach Enric through other channels?

I will continue to work with the .COOP Registry on a resolution. We can hopefully resolve this through an informal process that leads to the domain name being transferred (level 3 under the .coop dispute policy ( https://identity.coop/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/coop-Dispute-Policy-Jan-2020.pdf )) but that may require formal dispute resolution process (requires $1500 to WIPO ( https://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/guide/ ) as selected by identity.coop ( https://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/guide/ ); a significant effort on my part; and sufficient records and documentation from the early days of social.coop ( http://social.coop ) about the registration of our domain name).

Links

( https://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/guide/ )
WIPO Guide to the Uniform Domain Name Dispute Resolution Policy (UDRP) ( https://www.wipo.int/amc/en/domains/guide/ )
WIPO Arbitration and Mediation Center, El Centro de Arbitraje y de Mediación de la OMPI, Le Centre d'arbitrage et de médiation de l'OMPI

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And I am in contact with the people I know within the .coop registry operation, and they have suggested a possible approach. I need to follow that up, which will now be in the New Year. If I get anywhere I'll feed back here of course.

@Graham We may have overlapped our efforts with .COOP in December, but that is fine… Platform 6 or Innovation would ultimately be the named Registrant and your involvement is crucial and appreciated.

Can we perhaps merge our email threads to .COOP? My email while navigating this issue:

andrewe [symbol] social [punctuation] coop

Many years ago, Enric forked our software, and we gave him and FairCoop a lot of time and software support. I can try reaching out, although I don't necessarily expect it to work. What specifically should I ask him to do, the easier and more concrete the better?

I have not been able to get in touch with Enric. The CIC, the co-op that the domain is registered under, appears to no longer have a website. I will try reaching out to others I know from those days.

I just wrote to an old contact of mine there.