Loomio
Tue 17 Nov 2015

Make a statement on the recent terror attacks in Paris, Beruit, Baghdad and others

AR
Andrew Reitemeyer Public Seen by 213

The board has decided to make a statement on the situation. Concern about the effects on democracy and the disparity on attention to acts by the press.

AR

Andrew Reitemeyer Tue 17 Nov 2015

comments so far
Anders Kleppe: Beirut and Bagdad as well.
10:36 ThomasG: PPDE had a meeting on Sunday with a minute of silence, esp. mentioning Paris and Beirut while not omitting the 14 countries suffering from the so called IS
10:38 ThomasG: Pls send in invite for it on pp-leaders
10:41 ThomasG: And if preped, current events ought to be included as well

AR

Andrew Reitemeyer Wed 18 Nov 2015

Press release from PPFR

If you want peace, prepare for peace

November the 13th, cowardice and bigotry have bloodied the streets of Paris and our indignation is huge. Our thoughts are with the victims and their relatives. These lives, cut, broken, nothing will bring them back to us.

But now what ? Here our proposition in one sentence : If you want peace, prepare for peace.

Don't charge us with angelism - fashionable accusation. Without doubt we must destroy Daesh, for the same reason it is necessary to treat the symptoms of a serious illness as the same time we apply a basic treatment. But make no mistake : the elimination of the caliphate won't bring us more safety than the one of Bin Laden if a serious work is not undertaken to heal the true causes of this tragedy.

Prepare for peace, it means stop encouraging war. Martial posturing of Valls, Sarkozy or any Le Pen exacerbate hatred at the same time they obscure the real issues. For decades, the Western powers - especially France - produce and export huge quantities of military equipment. The engaged armies in the Middle-East or Africa support private interests at far distance from the objectives set for the defense of the human rights and democracy. This must stop. The West, France, should urgently take the path of solidarity, civil construction and distribution of the wealth for the common good.

Prepare for peace, it means support freedom and not try to further reduce it as the system's players are doing with the same cynicism that prevailed in January. Tens of repressive laws voted last years have further demonstrated their ineffectiveness. Rather than abandon itself into a population control fantasy by useless and expensive black boxes, the state would do better focus on more and better trained staff able to act protecting what a democracy has most precious : lives of citizens and their freedoms.

Prepare for peace, it means fight violence. International violence against the most vulnerable people than ours and subjected to post-colonial dictatorship. Violence within our borders, exercised against those excluded of the system, more and more numerous, more and more marginalized. The criminals of November the 13th must be put out of harm's way. But every citizen must interrogate himself/herself on the missed rendez-vous and geopolitical cowardices of our democracies that have brought this world to the dramatic situation which we see.

Our emotion is huge but more than ever we must keep a cool head. In politics, as in medicine, it does not accomplish anything if we didn't pose the good diagnosis.

English version

https://www.partipirate.org/Si-vis-pacem-para-pacem

AR

Andrew Reitemeyer Wed 18 Nov 2015

Points to cover:
All terror attacks not just Paris
What to call the perpetrators Daesh, ISIS, ISIL, IS
Warning of moves by government to in crease surveillance and restrict Human Rights
Use of the attack to harass refugees and prevent access to refuge. None of the perpetrators were refugees but Europeans
...

CBJ

Chemseddine BEN JEMAA Fri 20 Nov 2015

POV P-) https://twitter.com/fidh_en/status/667754004303233028

"FIDH therefore calls on States to reconsider their diplomatic relations with Gulf States such as Saudi Arabia and ‪#‎Qatar‬ given the long-acknowledged support they afford Islamist or terrorist groups."

AR

Andrew Reitemeyer Wed 25 Nov 2015

Points to cover:
The effect that the Paris attacks had and why - World center of culture - that young people were targeted.
Condemn all forms of terrorism by states and non state actors
The way the press reacted in comparison to other terrorist acts
The danger that rights and freedoms will be curtailed by governments knee-jerk reactions
The need for human rights to be maintained across all ethnicities and religions
Any operations to stop terrorism must comply with international law.
The need to keep strong encryption - Daesh did not use strong encryption
Support for victims of terrorism and refugees from terror
The apocalyptic nature of Daesh

AR

Andrew Reitemeyer Sat 28 Nov 2015

My draft for a statement. Proof reading and comments welcome.

Pirate Parties international condemns, without reservation, the attacks instigated by the organisation known as Daesh, ISIL or ISIS. We also condemn attacks made on civilians and civilian organisations by any state and non-state agent in recent times.

We are aware of the special poignancy the events in Paris on the night of 13th November evoked in the world as Paris is a cultural beacon and that young people were targeted. That has helped us to decide to make this statement. We stand with our fellow Pirates in France and their statement “If you Want Peace, Prepare for Peace” and call on Pirates and others to stand against the causes of terrorism, namely the injustices perpetrated on populations for political, strategic and economic gain. Central to Pirate Principles are Human Rights and there can be no preference given in the granting of these by gender, ethnicity, belief or place of birth.

We are saddened that the world's press reacted differently to the Paris attacks as to other atrocities carried out in other countries. This indicates an appalling attitude that some lives are worth more attention that others. In November political attacks in Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Mali, Palestine, Israel, Somalia, Niger, Cameroon, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Chad, Egypt and Colorado Springs USA attracted the media's attention in direct proportion to the number of western victims.

We also warn citizens in every country to be vigilant and wary of governments using these events to further degrade human, civil and digital rights by encroaching on privacy and increasing mass surveillance in the name of enhanced security.

AR

Andrew Reitemeyer Sat 28 Nov 2015

My draft for a statement. Proof reading and comments welcome.

Pirate Parties international condemns, without reservation, the attacks instigated by the organisation known as Daesh, ISIL or ISIS. We also condemn attacks made on civilians and civilian organisations by any state and non-state agent in recent times.

We are aware of the special poignancy the events in Paris on the night of 13th November evoked in the world as Paris is a cultural beacon and that young people were targeted. That has helped us to decide to make this statement. We stand with our fellow Pirates in France and their statement “If you Want Peace, Prepare for Peace” and call on Pirates and others to stand against the causes of terrorism, namely the injustices perpetrated on populations for political, strategic and economic gain. Central to Pirate Principles are Human Rights and there can be no preference given in the granting of these by gender, ethnicity, belief or place of birth.

We are saddened that the world's press reacted differently to the Paris attacks as to other atrocities carried out in other countries. This indicates an appalling attitude that some lives are worth more attention that others. In November [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2015] political attacks in Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Mali, Palestine, Israel, Somalia, Niger, Cameroon, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Chad, Egypt and Colorado Springs USA attracted the media's attention in direct proportion to the number of western victims.

We also warn citizens in every country to be vigilant and wary of governments using these events to further degrade human, civil and digital rights by encroaching on privacy and increasing mass surveillance in the name of enhanced security.

RH

Richard Hill Sun 29 Nov 2015

Dear Andrew,

This is excellent. I propose to add something at the end of the first paragraph, namely: ", including assassinations by drone strikes".

And at the end, I propose to add the following:

"In particular, we oppose any laws intended to institute, continue, or expand current mass surveillance practices which have proven to be ineffective and which constitute violations of human rights. The perpetrators of the events in Paris were on surveillance lists, so surveilling more people and more won't help to prevent such attacks. What is needed is more focused police work. Funds expended on mass surveillance are counter-productive, because they reduce funds available for solid police investigations and for targeted surveillance.

"It is time to end the current misleading rhetoric and to recognize that events such as those in Paris are crimes that must be combatted as would be other crimes, such as non-politically motivated mass shootings and violent bank robberies. To equate such crimes to war is to mischaracterize them, and it leads to the choice of the wrong methods to combat them, such as mass surveillance, unjustified detentions, torture, and assassinations.

"Such means are ineffective and must not be used by democracies."

P

pakki Mon 30 Nov 2015

I love both of your statements and would prefer to take them both. Here I added Richard's proposal and some words, too:

"Pirate Parties International condemns, without reservation, the Paris Attacks instigated by the organisation known as Daesh, ISIL or ISIS. We also condemn attacks made on civilians and civilian organisations by any state and non-state agent in recent times, including assassinations by drone strikes.

We are aware of the special poignancy the events in Paris on the night of 13th November evoked in the world as Paris is a cultural beacon and that young people were targeted. That has helped us to decide to make this statement. We stand with our fellow Pirates in France and their statement “If you Want Peace, Prepare for Peace” and we call on Pirates and others to stand against the causes of terrorism, namely the injustices perpetrated on populations for political, strategic and economic gain. Central to Pirate Principles are Human Rights and there can be no preference given in the granting of these by gender, ethnicity, belief or place of birth.

We are saddened that the world’s press reacted differently to the Paris attacks as to other atrocities carried out in other countries. This indicates an appalling attitude that some lives are worth more attention that others. In November [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2015] political attacks in Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Mali, Palestine, Israel, Somalia, Niger, Cameroon, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Chad, Egypt and Colorado Springs USA attracted the media’s attention in direct proportion to the number of western victims.

We also warn citizens in every country to be vigilant and wary of governments using these events to further degrade human, civil and digital rights by encroaching on privacy and increasing mass surveillance in the name of enhanced security.

In particular, we oppose any laws intended to institute, continue, or expand current mass surveillance practices which have proven to be ineffective and which constitute violations of human rights. The perpetrators of the events in Paris were on surveillance lists, so surveilling more people and more won’t help to prevent such attacks. What is needed is more focused police work. Funds expended on mass surveillance are counter-productive, because they reduce funds available for solid police investigations and for targeted surveillance.

It is time to end the current misleading rhetoric and to recognize that events such as those in Paris are crimes that must be combatted as would be other crimes, such as non-politically motivated mass shootings and violent bank robberies. To equate such crimes to war is to mischaracterize them, and it leads to the choice of the wrong methods to combat them, such as mass surveillance, unjustified detentions, torture, and assassinations.

Such means are ineffective and must not be used by democracies.”

K

Karla Mon 30 Nov 2015

It looks very good. Some French climate change activists were placed under house arrest ahead of the opening of the UN climate change conference in Paris, should we mention that?

AR

Andrew Reitemeyer Mon 30 Nov 2015

I have included everyone's points and rewritten some a bit to give continuity of voice

Pirate Parties International condemns, without reservation, the Paris Attacks instigated by the organisation known as Daesh, ISIL or ISIS. We also condemn attacks made on civilians and civilian organisations by any state and non-state agent in recent times, including assassinations by drone strikes.
We are aware of the special poignancy the events in Paris on the night of 13th November evoked in the world as Paris is a cultural beacon and that young people were targeted. That has helped us to decide to make this statement. We stand with our fellow Pirates in France and their statement “If you Want Peace, Prepare for Peace” and we call on Pirates and others to stand against the causes of terrorism, namely the injustices perpetrated on populations for political, strategic and economic gain. Central to Pirate Principles are Human Rights and there can be no preference given in the granting of these by gender, ethnicity, belief or place of birth.
We are saddened that the world’s press reacted differently to the Paris attacks as to other atrocities carried out in other countries. This indicates an appalling attitude that some lives are worth more attention that others. In November [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents,_2015] political attacks in Lebanon, Iraq, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Mali, Palestine, Israel, Somalia, Niger, Cameroon, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Chad, Egypt and Colorado Springs USA attracted the media’s attention in direct proportion to the number of western victims.
We also warn citizens in every country to be vigilant and wary of governments using these events to further degrade human, civil and digital rights by encroaching on privacy and increasing mass surveillance in the name of enhanced security.
In particular, we oppose any laws intended to institute, continue, or expand current mass surveillance practices which have proven to be ineffective and which constitute violations of human rights. The perpetrators of the events in Paris were on surveillance lists, so surveilling more people will not help
In order to prevent such attacks in the future is more focused police work. Funds expended on mass surveillance are counter-productive as they reduce funds available for solid police investigations and for targeted surveillance.
It is time to end the current misleading rhetoric and to recognize that events such as those in Paris are crimes that must be combated as would be other crimes, such as non-politically motivated mass shootings and violent bank robberies. To equate such crimes to war is to mischaracterise them, and this leads to the wrong methods being chosen to combat them, such as mass surveillance, unjustified detentions, torture, and assassinations. We see this with the house arrest of climate change activists by the French government during the COP21 talks
Such means are ineffective and must not be used by democracies.
·

RH

Richard Hill Mon 30 Nov 2015

Ok for me.

Thanks and best,

Richard

AR

Andrew Reitemeyer started a proposal Mon 30 Nov 2015

The last version of the statement be published Closed Thu 3 Dec 2015

Agree - 6
Abstain - 6
Disagree - 6
Block - 6
6 people have voted (24%)
AR

Andrew Reitemeyer
Agree
Mon 30 Nov 2015

P

pakki
Agree
Mon 30 Nov 2015

NV

Nikolay Voronov
Agree
Mon 30 Nov 2015

RH

Richard Hill
Agree
Mon 30 Nov 2015

CBJ

Chemseddine BEN JEMAA
Agree
Mon 30 Nov 2015

HP

Henrique Peer
Agree
Tue 1 Dec 2015

RH

Richard Hill Fri 4 Dec 2015

Dear Andrew,

Can you please send me the link to the published version? I’d like to send it around.

Thanks and best,

Richard

CBJ

Chemseddine BEN JEMAA Fri 4 Dec 2015

The published version is here : http://pp-international.net/node/555