Loomio
Thu 21 May 2020

Social.Coop is joining Meet.Coop

MN
Matt Noyes Public Seen by 152

Edited 12/23/2020

This thread was started to discuss whether or not to join Meet.Coop. https://org.meet.coop/ We discussed, decided yes, and now we need to make it happen.

(old links: Here is a pad for comparing options: https://pad.disroot.org/p/Social.Coop_Video_Call_Options

Notes from Sept 4th Meeting with Meet.Coop are here: https://cloud.owncube.com/s/GBPZYYDssykKJtn)

MN

Matt Noyes Thu 25 Feb

Glad it worked! So far the policy is to treat it as a commons, so I suppose we can use it for non-social.coop business, but if there is income involved we should contribute more to Social.Coop. (So, when I cancel my Zoom account, which I use for language lessons among other things, I will increase my Social.Coop contribution.)

NS

Nathan Schneider Thu 25 Feb

I'm in! Can you remind me what the policy is? Can we use it for anything or just Social.coop business?

KT

KC Terry Sat 27 Feb

I'm looking forward to trying this out too. Thanks to everyone who helped set this up!

DC

Derek Caelin Thu 25 Feb

👋 I'd love to try out BBB. Very exciting.

NS

Nathan Schneider Wed 24 Feb

I'd love to try!

M

mike_hales Wed 24 Feb

Creating rooms, customised to needs (recording, moderation rights, etc) and shared as necessary with other members, is nice & easy 🙂 The thing that may need more focus and learning is the administration of user accounts. So the work that @David Mynors and @Matt Noyes are into - registration etc - is key. Taking a little time in this development loop will pay back later, I would say. Greenlight is not 100% helpful when it comes to account admin (but hacking an improved interface is some way down meet.coop's todo list).

JD

Josh Davis Wed 24 Feb

Speaking of testing, I created a room called "Test Room" and shared it with Emi, David, and you. That part seems pretty straight forward.

MN

Matt Noyes Wed 24 Feb

Okay -- we have the instance. I have set up the admin account and accounts for @Josh Davis @emi do @David Mynors @Akshay and myself. David is setting up the registration form for social.coop members who want BBB accounts. I think we can be flexible about creating accounts for people who ask right away, but we do need to set up and test the registration process for new members before we announce it. What do you think?

ED

emi do Thu 31 Dec 2020

Sun 24 Jan
Sun 24 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Tue 19 Jan
Tue 19 Jan
JD

Josh Davis Thu 31 Dec 2020

Sun 24 Jan
Sun 24 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Tue 19 Jan
Tue 19 Jan
H

Hakanto Thu 31 Dec 2020

Sun 24 Jan
Sun 24 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Tue 19 Jan
Tue 19 Jan
DM

David Mynors Thu 31 Dec 2020

Sun 24 Jan
Sun 24 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Tue 19 Jan
Tue 19 Jan
M

mike_hales Thu 31 Dec 2020

Sun 24 Jan
Sun 24 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Tue 19 Jan
Tue 19 Jan
A

Akshay Thu 31 Dec 2020

Sun 24 Jan
Sun 24 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Tue 19 Jan
Tue 19 Jan
MN

Matt Noyes Thu 31 Dec 2020

Sun 24 Jan
Sun 24 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Fri 22 Jan
Tue 19 Jan
Tue 19 Jan

Hope these times work across our time zones, Tokyo to Berlin...

MN

Matt Noyes started a time poll Thu 31 Dec 2020

Social.Coop - Meet.Coop working group meeting Closed Sun 3 Jan

Outcome
by Matt Noyes Sun 3 Jan

It is important for Mike Hales to be there, I think, but the three best times are all iffy for him. So I went with the top vote-getter. Hope this works for you Mike, if not we can communicate before/after.

Meeting to organize and set up our Meet.Coop membership and BBB account. Agenda here: https://cloud.disroot.org/s/dA7CoNEcfBzqFKg

MN
A
M
DM
H
JD
ED
Total
Tue 19 Jan, 06:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
3
Tue 19 Jan, 14:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
6
Fri 22 Jan, 06:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
3
Fri 22 Jan, 14:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
6
Sun 24 Jan, 06:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
4
Sun 24 Jan, 14:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
6
MN

Matt Noyes Thu 24 Dec 2020

Okay -- so @emi do @mike_hales @David Mynors @Josh Davis @Akshay and I are the team that will coordinate the joining of Meet.Coop and the set up of our Big Blue Button account. Seems like a good number and mix of people. Thanks for volunteering! Time/Date poll coming...

MN

Matt Noyes Fri 11 Dec 2020

Status update: the Community Working Group Ops team is seeking to set up a working group to coordinate the process of joining Meet.Coop and providing the service to Social.Coop members. If you are interested in joining the circle, please reply here or DM me.

MN

Matt Noyes Wed 2 Sep 2020

I think that is fine, though about half of the discussion will be about social.coop specifically.

H

Hakanto Wed 2 Sep 2020

In the agenda, I'm reading "participants in Loomio poll, plus open to others". Would it be possible for me to bring someone from Resonate Co-op who isn't a member of Social.coop? I can think of a few people who'd be interested in being at the meeing and getting a sense for what the process of joining Meet.coop could look like for Resonate. More as spectators than participants. I would want the meeting to stay focused on the relationship between Meet.coop and Social.coop, of course

JB

Jonathan Bean
Yes
Wed 2 Sep 2020

M

mike_hales
Yes
Wed 2 Sep 2020

PC

Patrick Connolly
No
Wed 2 Sep 2020

Sorry, a conflict came up, and I can't make it.

I'm a member of an org with members who are contributors to meet.coop, so I'd been interested to attend on the opposite side with social.coop, as a potential client -- I've only heard about the project from coworkers on the contributor/provider end :)

NS

Nick Sellen
Yes
Wed 2 Sep 2020

curious to participate (from user, organisational, and tech perspectives)

K

kekorraelagua
Yes
Wed 2 Sep 2020

MC

Matthew Cropp
Yes
Wed 2 Sep 2020

H

Hakanto
Yes
Wed 2 Sep 2020

DM

David Mynors
No
Wed 2 Sep 2020

BH

Bob Haugen
Yes
Wed 2 Sep 2020

Let's try it!

C

Cam
Yes
Wed 2 Sep 2020

Voting yes. After reviewing the comments and looking at the website I think if it's in our budget that joining a bigger coop and supporting cooperatively run services like these is awesome. I would absolutely use this as a member perk for myself.

Z

Zee
No
Wed 2 Sep 2020

I didn't realize I RSVPed yes in the first place?

MN

Matt Noyes
Yes
Wed 2 Sep 2020

MN

Matt Noyes started a check Wed 2 Sep 2020

RSVP Meeting with Meet.Coop Friday Sept 4 Closed Sat 5 Sep 2020

Can you attend the meeting with Oli and Graham from Meet.Coop?

https://ca.meet.coop/b/mik-a8z-njk

Thanks for agreeing to join this call! Please put the date in your calendars. Feel free to invite other Social.Coop members.

A note on the meeting's purposes/agenda is here: https://pad.disroot.org/p/Matt-Mike-Meet-plans. Matt Noyes of social.coop will facilitate with the help of Mike Hales.

09:00 MST (15:00 UTC; 00:00JST +1day)

9 - Yes
3 - No
H

Hakanto Sat 22 Aug 2020

Thank you, I'll be there!

MN

Matt Noyes Thu 20 Aug 2020

please do join the call

H

Hakanto Thu 20 Aug 2020

I'm pretty new here, but I'd love to participate as well! I'm interested in the idea as a social co-op feature. I'm also a volunteer at Resonate Co-op -- Meet.coop comes up in discussion here and there because we will need solutions other than Jitsi once we grow a bit. This would give me some useful info to bring back to Resonate about what that process could look like.

DC

Derek Caelin Sat 8 Aug 2020

Fri 4 Sep 2020
Fri 21 Aug 2020

Both work for me.

JB

Jonathan Bean Sat 8 Aug 2020

Fri 4 Sep 2020
Fri 21 Aug 2020

U

Ubuntourist Mon 10 Aug 2020

Fri 4 Sep 2020
Fri 21 Aug 2020

MC

Matthew Cropp Sat 8 Aug 2020

Fri 4 Sep 2020
Fri 21 Aug 2020

C

caseyg Sat 8 Aug 2020

Fri 4 Sep 2020
Fri 21 Aug 2020
SJ

Sophie Jerram Sat 8 Aug 2020

Fri 4 Sep 2020
Fri 21 Aug 2020

Middle of the night no good guys!

BH

Bob Haugen Sat 8 Aug 2020

Fri 4 Sep 2020
Fri 21 Aug 2020

Either time is ok with me.

M

mike_hales Sat 8 Aug 2020

Fri 4 Sep 2020
Fri 21 Aug 2020

I have a commitment to cultivating meet.coop’s relationship with the work of significant activist communities - like social.coop.

MN

Matt Noyes Sat 8 Aug 2020

Fri 4 Sep 2020
Fri 21 Aug 2020

Eager to have this conversation.

LS

Leo Sammallahti Sat 8 Aug 2020

Fri 4 Sep 2020
Fri 21 Aug 2020
MN

Matt Noyes started a time poll Sat 8 Aug 2020

Meeting with Oli and Graham from Meet.Coop Closed Fri 14 Aug 2020

Outcome
by Matt Noyes Sun 16 Aug 2020

Thanks for agreeing to join this call! Please put the date in your calendars. Feel free to invite other Social.Coop members.

This is a date poll for members of Social.Coop to meet with members of Meet.Coop. A note on the meeting's purposes is here: https://pad.disroot.org/p/Matt-Mike-Meet-plans. Matt Noyes of social.coop will facilitate with the help of Mike Hales.

LS
MN
M
BH
C
MC
U
JB
DC
Total
Fri 21 Aug 2020, 09:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
7
Fri 4 Sep 2020, 09:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
8
NS

Nick Sellen
Yes
Tue 28 Jul 2020

I would actually put a "maybe" if it had been an option, as I can't commit to it, but I would be interested to participate if it fits ok...

JB

Jonathan Bean
Yes
Tue 28 Jul 2020

YK

Yasuaki Kudo
Yes
Mon 27 Jul 2020

KT

KC Terry
No
Fri 24 Jul 2020

J

JohnKuti
No
Fri 24 Jul 2020

DM

David Mynors
No
Thu 23 Jul 2020

Z

Zee
No
Wed 22 Jul 2020

M

mike_hales
No
Tue 21 Jul 2020

I'm a NO vote bcos I'll be in the meeting as a member of meet.coop. By no means a conflict of interest, just an indication of who will be around the table in addition to votes here. I entered some further info about meet.coop in the pad. As this poll header says: yes, we very much want our user members in meet.coop to make an active contribution to development and/or operations.

DC

Derek Caelin
Yes
Tue 21 Jul 2020

Would love to be a part of this.

C

caseyg
Yes
Tue 21 Jul 2020

Not sure if it's appropriate to join since I haven't been so active on social.coop in a while, but I'd be down to join/participate in this! Excited about this idea.

MN

Matt Noyes
Yes
Tue 21 Jul 2020

Still eager to explore this option.

MN

Matt Noyes started a check Tue 21 Jul 2020

Do you want to join in a Social.Coop - Meet.Coop meeting? Closed Tue 28 Jul 2020

Outcome
by Matt Noyes Thu 30 Jul 2020

Okay, so I count six people interested in participating. I will confer with Mike Hales about setting up a meeting and get back to everyone who voted with possible dates. I think we should also post a notice on Social.Coop, asking people to DM if they are interested, in case there are others who would like to join the call.

After discussion on Loomio (https://www.loomio.org/d/Ci7uHcyG/should-social-coop-join-the-online-meeting-cooperative-) we agreed to seek a meeting with people involve in Meet.Coop to explore the possibilities of joining Meet.Coop.
We need a couple of people from Meet.Coop who can answer questions about how Social.Coop might join, what it would entail, the process, the responsibilities involved, etc. On the Social.Coop side (of course these is overlap), it would be good to have people who might be prepared to play an active role. After we get a sense who wants to participate we can do a time poll.

6 - Yes
5 - No
DS

Danyl Strype Fri 26 Jun 2020

A few thoughts:

@Jonathan Bean

> I see a deal where we pay and get credits

AFAIK the main expenses in running servers are not consumables like bandwidth, but staff time for setup and upkeep. So pay-per-use pricing isn't really necessary. Also, from a marketing POV, all-you-can-eat pricing is much simpler for prospective user/members to understand. As Clay Shirky pointed out back in 2000:

"... users want predictable and simple pricing ... In situations where there is real competition, providers are usually forced to drop 'pay as you go' schemes in response to user preference, because if they don't, anyone who can offer flat-rate pricing becomes the market leader."

Keep in mind we're competing with datafarms that charge $0 to most users.

@Matt Noyes

> Should we host a Jitsi instance? Or go in on hosting with others?

Given the above, it makes sense to work with another co-op who are already hosting conference servers. This allows social.coop to offer a robust service right away, while its techies can gain experience by helping out (ideally on production systems of a few of the conference software options). Down the track a bit, social.coop could decide to supply a conference service of it's own, and perhaps share it with whichever co-op service it partners with.

@Josef Davies-Coates

> if we do want to have a load of different apps with single sign-on I'd suggest we simply subscribe to Cloudron

There be dragons. Wouter would be able to confirm or correct, but I believe CommonsCloud started out using Cloudron but have since moved away from it. I've seen comments that suggest it isn't fully free code, which could be a reason.

KT

KC Terry
Consent
Sat 27 Jun 2020

NP

Neville Park
Consent
Sat 27 Jun 2020

M

Mikelo
Consent
Sat 27 Jun 2020

F

freescholar
Consent
Sat 27 Jun 2020

I just joined meet.coop's forums and am in the process of becoming a member. I am hosting a BBB server at http://communitybridge.com let me know if you need/want a room!

H

Hakanto
Consent
Fri 26 Jun 2020

YK

Yasuaki Kudo
Consent
Thu 25 Jun 2020

I have been attending many meetings. I love everyone there!

N

Noah
Consent
Thu 25 Jun 2020

CCC

As one of the founders of meet.coop and someone who doesn't use social.coop I think it would be appropriate for me to abstain! However I'd be happy to answer any questions and I'm keen to help make this happen.

W

Wooster
Abstain
Tue 23 Jun 2020

I tried signing up and got an error verifying my email address. Seems like a nice idea but until the interface is made normie-proof I'm not going to be too excited about it.

RD

Robert Dickey
Consent
Mon 22 Jun 2020

MF

Mica Fisher
Abstain
Mon 22 Jun 2020

What's BBB? Otherwise, this looks good to me!

SB

Steve Bosserman
Consent
Mon 22 Jun 2020

To check for user-friendliness as an older person, I went through the process of signing up for a free personal space on BigBlueButton (BBB) and it went off without incident.

D

Django
Consent
Mon 22 Jun 2020

ED

emi do
Consent
Mon 22 Jun 2020

G

Graham
Consent
Mon 22 Jun 2020

I understand that it is free and easy to host a call on their demo server (provided by the Digital Life Collective) at https://demo.meet.coop

MN

Matt Noyes
Consent
Mon 22 Jun 2020

TD

Tobias Damm-Luhr @tobiasfdl
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

MK

Martin Kennedy
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

I believe strongly in attaching to the foundations of organizations like meet.coop, and as far as I know we have no organized meeting platform yet.

BH

Bob Haugen
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

Z

Zee
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

C

Clayton (clayton@social.coop)
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

JB

Jonathan Bean
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

COT

Creature Of The Hill
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

JD

Josef Davies-Coates
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

C

caseyg
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

SJK

Stephanie Jo Kent
Abstain
Sun 21 Jun 2020

unfamiliar with both BBB and Meet.Coop but curious and hope I can join the meeting

NS

Nick Sellen
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

a bunch of stuff to work out still, but definitely good for taking the next step...

DS

Danyl Strype
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

I met some of the folks involved in meet.coop at Open 2018 London and have interacted with others in the Open App Ecosystem group and elsewhere. A thoroughly decent bunch.

M

mike_hales
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

DM

David Mynors
Abstain
Sun 21 Jun 2020

NS

Nathan Schneider
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

DC

Derek Caelin
Consent
Sun 21 Jun 2020

Reading the membership rules, it may not be mutually exclusive to join meet.coop and collective.tools. If so, we could gain access to both BBB and the Nextcloud suite offered by c.t.

MN

Matt Noyes started a proposal Sun 21 Jun 2020

Social.Coop will ask Meet.Coop to host a video meeting, using BBB, to discuss the possibility of our joining Meet.Coop as an organization. Closed Sat 27 Jun 2020

Outcome
by Matt Noyes Sun 28 Jun 2020

We have consent (no objections), so the next step is to ask Meet.Coop folks (several of whom are social.coop members) to figure out who can meet with us and some possible dates/times. chriscroome who is a founding member offered to help. @freescholar and @Yasuaki Kudo are also members, I think.

This proposal assumes that we believe it is worth taking the first step toward joining Meet.Coop, but it does not commit us to joining.

If you object, please indicate why. The goal here is minimum viability -- good enough to try. Does this proposal harm Social.Coop? Do people have experience with BBB or the member co-ops in Meet.Coop that suggests it is unsafe for us to meet with them?

Consent - 27
Abstain - 5
Objection - 0
30 people have voted (28%)
MN

Matt Noyes Sat 20 Jun 2020

Sorry Derek, I have been remiss. The next step is to review this thread and then make a proposal that addresses the various valid concerns and issues raised.

DC

Derek Caelin Sat 20 Jun 2020

@Matt Noyes what's the next step here?

YK

Yasuaki Kudo Wed 17 Jun 2020

This is probably not just for BBB but we need a lot of testing and also invest in monitoring tools in order to make it a commercial success, I think. Otherwise, it won't scale

DC

Derek Caelin Tue 16 Jun 2020

Big Blue Button performed well at Open 2020. 60+ participants and the server seemed to run fine. Providing social.coop members with an ethical tool for meetings and supporting other online cooperatives seems like a good investment of the resources, especially if this gets cheaper over time.

OS

Oli SB Mon 8 Jun 2020

Thanks for point out OPEN 2020 @Matt Noyes - We'd love to see people from Social.coop there.

The Open Co-op has chosen to host OPEN 2020 via Meet.coop using Big Blue Button - it will be a really good test of the technology... ;)

We're dedicated to collaborating with everyone in the 'new economy' space and are very impressed by the collaboration behind meet.coop and will be supporting them as much as we can both financially and with promotion.

We believe there are a lot of lessons for meet.coop to learn from Social.coop and other distributed communities and co-ops... so one of our sessions at OPEN 2020 will focus on this https://open.coop/events/a-new-platform-co-op-for-collaborative-tools/ to try and determine the best way to govern this emerging platform co-op... We would love input from anyone here.

We have another session looking at use cases for collaborative tools https://open.coop/events/the-tools-of-collaboration/ which aims to determine a suitable selection of open source tools for different kinds of collaborative groups, which we could all, collectively own...

There's other sessions on mutual credit and the Murmurations protocol which aims to encourage coordination within networks of commons building initiatives.... plus much more so it should be a fruitful two days!

We made the unwaged ticket just £3.50 to try and make it as inclusive as possible - grab yours here, we'd love to see you ;)

Best

Oli

NS

Nick Sellen Mon 8 Jun 2020

Thanks for the reminder!

MN

Matt Noyes Mon 8 Jun 2020

Hi all -- please check out the OpenCoop 2020 sessions this week: https://open.coop/2020/04/02/open-2020-reinvented-networked-commons-initiatives/ Should be a helpful set of discussions for us.