Loomio
October 13th, 2016 14:39

Pirates and the automated human

Jonas Degrave
Jonas Degrave Public Seen by 390

Let's start a project to assemble and collect information on the automated human. The goal is
- in the first place to set up a repository with accessible information on the topic.
- in the second place, a document with solutions for the government. A programme if you will.
- in the third place, a website (and/or a video) to distribute the information, explain people what is the problem, and propose our solutions.

This is the problem:
http://www.tijd.be/nieuws/archief/De_overheid_zoekt_miljarden_Hier_zijn_ze.9819342-1615.art
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lycD8CuNmE

The automated human is coming. How should Belgium/Europe react?

Vincent

Vincent November 3rd, 2016 11:06

Would you say this project addresses one aspect of the problem?
https://www.gnu.org/software/gneuralnetwork/

Jonas Degrave

Jonas Degrave November 3rd, 2016 11:34

Well, I bet people for who GNU is the only valid source of open software would think that. In practice, almost all code for neural networks is now already under MIT or BSD license (because developed in universities). I myself am contributor to some of those, as I am doing a Phd in the neural network & robotics field.

Also, some of the features on that page are reasons why this project is doomed to fail (C instead of Python, no gradient descent or deep learning, ...)

I am more thinking along the lines of digital government / basic income / ...

Right now, the media sees Geert Noels and godforbid Etienne Vermeersch as the 'experts' in the digital future. I think it would be easy to profile someone from the party as an actual expert in these fields.

I know I could easily profile myself as expert on this problem, but would like some minor motion of trust in advance to push this issue.

Christophe Cop

Christophe Cop November 3rd, 2016 14:34

I work as as a data scientist, currently helping to improve and automate government processes (as a consultant).
I hope to make many jobs obsolete ;-) (and to some extent welcome the AI overlords, given they deeply care for all lifeforms)

But on a whole: this revolution can't be seen without the need for a basic income, and other aspects such as ecology (technology is a huge part of the solution).

So if I can help, let me know.

Christophe Cop

Christophe Cop November 3rd, 2016 14:34

You get my trust

Vincent

Vincent November 3rd, 2016 15:17

Mine, too.

PS

Pat Seynaeve November 4th, 2016 09:26

In my opinion, in stead of investing mountains of money in AI, we first should solve poverty, slavery, a less agressive economy and a global financial system that doesn't stimulates greed.
Since this planet is out of balance due to human economics, human life can end within 100-150 year.
Priority now is to free our slaves and solve poverty and keep the peace.
But if we need a specialist about digital future, then you have my trust, so kick their ass.
But keep in mind: future will end soon.

Vincent

Vincent November 4th, 2016 12:44

Problem solving is something an AI can do in ways we wouldn't be able to understand.

We'd better make sure the AI's focus on the issues you've mentioned, just in case someone would want to make them find out how to destroy any designated target instead.

J

Josse November 4th, 2016 18:24

People post a lot of information already on fb and loomio, but nothing is done with it. Talking about AI, AI should not have a difficult task of categorizing them. You can easily retrieve everything from a fb e.g. in a json. About AI, I have heard that the most difficult things are still to come and that it won't go all that fast. Meanwhile wrt climate change, ... the problems are huge. So not sure, we will automate like that, but sure we can do much more. It would be good that an expert like Jonas could indicate at what time he thinks which thinks will be realizable as to be able to how we think politics should react to that. This could form some interesting articles for on the website which might be used as a base for further communication about the topic.

HgO

HgO November 6th, 2016 09:43

I'm not sure to understand completely what is the "automated human" issue :/ Are we talking about robotization ? or is there something else ? Do you have some resources in English / French ? :)

VG

Veerle Gevaert November 7th, 2016 10:33

I have collected a lot of links of useful articles for pirates and I don't know at all how to manage :-( Maybe even meet someone in my home?

Jonas Degrave

Jonas Degrave November 7th, 2016 11:12

To make clear: I will not tackle all world problems at once, I do not claim AI will solve all world problems. But AI is one of the world problems. And I am an expert in AI.

Pirates are perfectly positioned to tackle this specific world problem, since they have a core focus on a lot of sub-issues involved. I can help formulate an informed, global answer to this problem, together with other Pirates. Since there are already a lot of people specialized in sub-issues (basic income, copyright, ...) we could probably formulate the best answer to this problem. I am convinced there is no other group in Belgium with the combined expertise we have here, for this world problem specifically.

I hope other people, with other areas of expertise, will try to formulate answers to other world problems. (like climate change, slavery, or the global financial system)
I am however no expert in those areas.

I have collected a lot of links of useful articles for pirates and I don't know at all how to manage

Veerle, how did you store those links? I would be very interested!

So if I can help, let me know.

Christophe, I'll keep in touch!

Vincent

Vincent November 7th, 2016 13:50

@jonasdg @christophecop : I've taken the liberty to create a workgroup on the wiki: http://wiki.pirateparty.be/index.php/Automated_Human

@veerlegevaert: You can drop the links to your resources there: http://wiki.pirateparty.be/index.php/Automated_Human#Existing_material

Do you also have files to provide? You can add them in a zip file and upload it there: https://framadrop.org/ , then just post the link in this topic.

Vincent

Vincent November 7th, 2016 13:52

@hgo I've used the manifesto page as a template for this group: http://wiki.pirateparty.be/index.php/Automated_Human , do you have a squad template to suggest instead?

HgO

HgO November 8th, 2016 09:53

I have nothing better to propose for now. The template I would have used is this one, which is quite the same as yours. (However, I think that this template needs a refactoring, but this is off-topic).