Loomio

Add another filtered tag besides #nsfw to mark explicit/graphic content

DS
Dennis Schubert Public Seen by 98

A group of users suggested to add another tag besides #nsfw to mark non-sexual content as explicit/graphic.

One possible tag is #wgc (as in "warning graphic content"), I could also think of #triggerwarning and other stuff.

rfc. just throwing it inside Loomio to start the discussion.

G

goob Thu 17 Oct 2013

Do these people consider that #nsfw doesn't cover non-sexual graphic content? Because in my opinion, 'not safe for work' covers anything graphic that a boss might object to you looking at when they walk past your desk unexpectedly. It also applies to text: 'blue' jokes or racist rants should also have a #nsfw tag, among other things; because even if the person reading them might not be offended by them, a colleague or boss looking over their shoulder might be. That's my understanding of the nature of 'NSFW', and how the tag should be used. I don't see a need for a separate tag, and think introducing more tags would cause confusion.

G

goob Thu 17 Oct 2013

I do think, however, that it would be good if it were possible in user settings to choose for NSFW content to be displayed, if you want to see that stuff.

JR

Jason Robinson Thu 17 Oct 2013

Yeah I do agree with Goob initially anyway - one tag should cover anything that isn't safe for "delicate" environments... otherwise soon we will need 10 tags or more to cover different kind of content and then no one will know how to post things.

DU

[deactivated account] Fri 18 Oct 2013

Why not offer a customisable tag filter list that is preset to #nsfw. Any other tag in that list would result in matching posts to receive the current "nsfw-treatment".

G

goob Fri 18 Oct 2013

I'm thinking that perhaps the solution is to inform people what #nsfw is and how it works. Perhaps we could introduce little help snippets on the preferences page, so for example there would be a 'what is this?' link next to the #nsfw setting, which when clicked would produce a little pop-up with a brief explanation.

I regularly see new members who have set #nsfw in their preferences when they're not posting NSFW content, because they didn't understand what it means and what it does.

JR

Jason Robinson Fri 18 Oct 2013

rekado, thought of that too, it could be one option if we really want this. However, how much benefit it brings to weighting against the more complex code and UX..

Goob, I never understood why that setting is even there. Does someone use it properly? I'd just remove it and add a checkbox to the message composing box for nsfw just to make it "easier" for the NSFW crew.

G

goob Fri 18 Oct 2013

That could be an idea, Jason. There are few people who will only ever post NSFW content - good idea to add a check-box under the publisher instead. The NSFW setting in preferences could then be to set the default - so if 90% of your content was NSFW, the option under the publisher would be set to on by default, and you could switch it off when you were posting kittens.

X

Xophael Fri 18 Oct 2013

I agree with you, Goob. Mileages vary on what is "safe for work" or not, but #nsfw is a well-known tag for anything that might have mixed reception. Maybe provide some hint box when hovering on the tag to explain it.
I also agree that the option in the profile should set whether users want to have #nsfw posts visible by default in their stream, instead of default #nsfw tagging on everything published by them.
While we're at it, I'd appreciate some markup to hide part of the post; [spoiler] would be rather standard for that purpose. I don't think it's been implemented yet?

A

Adrenalin Sun 20 Oct 2013

@ Goob

Do these people consider that #nsfw doesn’t cover non-sexual graphic content?

Yes, and this is why we have this feature request now. I posted some "graphic content" and got very negative feedback on it.

It was one picture of torture in Abu Ghuraib, One of those, who made it in the news around the globe. If you can read german you will find the discussion here:
https://pod.geraspora.de/posts/1549602

The context was that #AbuGhraib #Torture Victims Ordered To Pay #US. Contractor's Legal Fees

I got criticized for not hiding the picture with #nsfw as some people feel this is too much cruelty or violence specially for people who had such experiences themselves. They might get traumatized again.

To my experience the #nsfw tag gets used for sexual explicit content and I know many people who do not wish to see this content while they like discussing political issues. This is the reason for the request to get a second tag to warn the posting contains explicit/graphic content but not porn or nudity.

The #nsfw tag doesn't make a lot of sense to me as more than 90% of companies here in germany do not accept if their employees surf the web privately. They often monitor their employees by logging where they surf. So any diaspora-content would be not suitable for work.

I am not a programmer or so but I think it can be done as easy as it is done for the tag#nsfw. It would mean just to add a second tag that results in hiding the posting as it does for #nsfw. But users clearly are notified that it is not about porn, sex or nudity.

This was discussed by some users and led to the request to add a tag #wgc to indicate "warning graphic content".

I do have a lot of respect for other users feelings and I had to learn that stuff I would not even hide at all might hurt the feelings of others or even worse puts them in psychological trouble.

A

Adrenalin Sun 20 Oct 2013

@rekado

I like that idea, it is exactly what we (now speaking for those who discussed in german and agreed on the idea to separate graphic content from just porn or sexual content) wanted to have.

JR

Jason Robinson Sun 20 Oct 2013

What about not adding another tag for posts (which I find confusing) but adding tagging of pictures as "graphic". So when you upload, a checkbox comes under the photo and you can click it as graphic. Then it will by default be replaced a same size box with "graphic" on black background hiding the picture until clicked. This way the actual post text will be visible but pictures in it can be hidden.

A

Adrenalin Sun 20 Oct 2013

@jasonrobinson
This would be even nicer because users would be able to read the text to know what the posting is about and then can decide if they want to see the graphic content that was added. Just be aware it might be a video too not only pictures.

I -now speaking for those who discussed the subject again- could live with any solution that separates porn/sexual/images from other graphic content. I do not want to confront people who easily feel offended maybe due to their personal experience. The reason why I added the picture: I thought it will be more clear what is "Abu Ghraib" and what victims I am talking about.

We'd be very happy if there is a way to include the requested feature. Thank you so much for all the hard work you do!

JR

Jason Robinson Sun 20 Oct 2013

What about changing the way NSFW works by allowing two kinds of behaviour - "hide whole post" and "hide pictures, show text". Then in user settings we would have a selection where user could use which one to use for rendering NSFW posts and a third option to always just show the post without hiding.

This way posting is simple (= it's always NSFW) and the users can choose how to show things. We could set by default to show "text, hide images" - or keep default as it is now.

A

Adrenalin Sun 20 Oct 2013

To be honest -though being on diaspora for more than a year now I have no clue how to make a NSFW-posting :)
This is why I would prefer to have a checkbox right next to the textfield when composing a posting for easier usability.

Maybe we should re-think about the term NSFW. NSFW is not that common as for US or GB citizens I think and I had to learn what it means. Therefor I like the Xophael's idea to have an explanation on mouseover too.

JR

Jason Robinson Sun 20 Oct 2013

Well to make a NSFW post you just write '#nsfw' in the post body ;)

I agree, checkbox plus mouseover would be better. We can still have the checkbox append #nsfw to the post to stay as we are in the backend.

If someone would like to write/draw all this up in to a brand new design that would be cool - then we could vote..

S

StarBlessed Sat 2 Nov 2013

What about a NSFW check box instead of an automatically hidden tag.

I would like to be able to use the #NSFW hashtag in a post (for example, pod posting statistics) without it collapsing the post.

Having a checkbox next to the "Post" button would be ideal.

A

Adrenalin Thu 7 Nov 2013

@starblessed

Sorry but I do not understand what exactly you mean. If a post doesn't get hidden when using #NSFW -Tag why use it at all?

And a question @ all

What is going to be the next step here. we need to vote on a second tag or someone is still busy doing a new design? I do not see why we would need a new design for this as I would prefer the fastest and most simple implementation possible.

I still like @rekado's idea

Why not offer a customisable tag filter list that is preset to #nsfw. Any other tag in that list would result in matching posts to receive the current “nsfw-treatment”.

G

goob Thu 7 Nov 2013

Perhaps someone who wants another tag to run alongside #nsfw could propose a specific tag and how they would see it working, and then we could discuss/vote on it.

Personally I don't see the need for another tag alongside #nsfw, because #nsfw is there to cover any content which might not be good to view in the office (and therefore anything potentially sensitive or offensive), which includes graphic content.

S

StarBlessed Fri 8 Nov 2013

@adrenalin - Hashtags are meant to be used for searching for relevant content , not censoring content. Not only that, but everyone has a different idea as to what graphic or sexual content is.

For example, picture's of the Holocaust may be offensive to some people, but be taken in stride by others.

It would still be possible to use the #NSFW tag, without collapsing the post. But having something like a checkbox next to the "Post" button would allow you to post the image with any tag, and still collapse the post.

The other thing I noticed that causes problems, is accounts with the NSFW flag set.

If you have a NSFW account, and post a NSFW image without the #NSFW tag that I reshare, it currently is not collapsed by default.

This needs to be fixed as well.

A

Adrenalin Sun 12 Jan 2014

And a question @ all

What is going to be the next step here???

Ready to decide? If not what are we waiting for (sorry, still have to ask what is the next step as I am still new here on loomio.

we need to vote on a second tag or someone is still busy doing a new design? I do not see why we would need a new design for this as I would prefer the fastest and most simple implementation possible.

I still like @rekado’s idea

Why not offer a customisable tag filter list that is preset to #nsfw. Any other tag in that list would result in matching posts to receive the current “nsfw-treatment”.

JR

Jason Robinson Sun 12 Jan 2014

Well, someone needs to write a proper design and submit it to proposal and then someone needs to write the code. So far there has been only discussion :)

G

goob Sun 12 Jan 2014

I have just submitted a pull request to provide a better explanation on the profile settings page of what checking the 'NSFW' option will do. This may help.

Personally I don't think more tags are needed; what we need to do is to explain to people better what NSFW is all about and how to use it. If everyone knows what nsfw is for and how to use it, there won't be a need for other tags.

DU

[deactivated account] Fri 24 Jan 2014

Bit late to this discussion, but #nsfw is a universally accepted term - everyone knows what it means and what they're likely to see by revealing something hidden behind a nsfw tag (not just on Diaspora)

A

Adrenalin Tue 4 Feb 2014

well #nsfw is not that common in all countries I think and as you can see it can be used in more than one sense http://www.acronymfinder.com/NSFW.html

That's why I think Goob's idea of explaining it better is a must have.

I would still prefer using another tag to specify graphic violence as in picture example above to respect people that have been traumatized but still are interested in reading text coming with the picture.

A

Adrenalin Tue 4 Feb 2014

here is another discussion showing clearly #nsfw can be confusing for people.

What is the NSFW tag and when we should use it?
https://www.loomio.org/d/yoU94SZQ/what-is-the-nsfw-tag-and-when-we-should-use-it

DU

[deactivated account] Tue 4 Feb 2014

I am not seeing the confusion...?

#NSFW = Not safe for work = Something you would not want your boss to see you looking at

Naturally everyone has their own definition of what they think is sfw and what they think is nsfw and this could be where the real issue lies.

But you could create 100x different #tags and each one of those hundred would still be open to personal interpretation and therefore be as completely meaningless as the other 99.

JR

Jason Robinson Fri 7 Feb 2014

Rick just explained why there should not be more than one tag imho :P

R

Ryuno-Ki Fri 14 Feb 2014

Rich, again, the association from "nsfw" to "not safe for work" isn't that popular. Tbh I saw it first on diaspora*.

The meaning of "not safe for work" per se is intuitive, I'd say.

That's, what @adrenalin is trying to say, I think.

DU

[deactivated account] Sun 16 Feb 2014

I think nsfw is useless thing at all. What is the point to censure some data?
If I don't want see it, I will remove user who add the article or I add his to ignore list.
I vote for remove this from diaspora.

A

Adrenalin Sun 16 Feb 2014

I still doubt that using #nsfw for all stuff isn't good. Right now I'd guess the #nsfw gets used mostly if not 99% for porn or nudity.Maybe it covers non-sexual graphic content too but -and thats a modification of my previous view we should find a tag for hiding graphic (non sexual content) but allow the text written in the posting.

So messages about cruelty reach more people without immediately offending them with accompanied picture(s)?