Loomio

European Pirate Party

TF
Thierry Fenasse Public Seen by 686

1) TUTORIAL ON VOTEIT

We've organised a tutorial session of the VoteIT platform, where the next Council Meeting will take place, destined for everyone (the board, delegates, and any volunteers).

The tutorial will take place next Sunday the 14th of May at 14.00 h (CEST) at the PPEU channel of the German mumble :

  • Server: mumble.piratenpartei-nrw.de
  • Port: 64738

We'll have the failsafe of the PIRATA.CAT mumble if by any chance the first one is down:

  • Server: veuip.pirata.cat
  • Port: 64738

Please try to attend to ensure a smooth running of the Council Meeting or, if this is not possible, to at least send someone else who can get familiar with the platform and transfer that knowledge to the rest.

We recommend that you register to the platform and create your user in advance.

2) VOLUNTEER SEARCH

The board is looking for volunteers who can help out drafting the first version of the Rules of Procedure that we will use in the Council Meeting, and which will be discussed for any ammendments and approved from the 25th-28th of May.

https://ppeu.piratenpad.de/Council-Meeting-2017-RoP-1st-draft

The board is also looking for volunteers to chair the meeting.

Please spread the word among your members and colleagues who might be willing to help.

3) NEW BOARD

The deadline is due and the Board hasn't received any nomination at all for new board members.

Our statutes say:
"(3) All nominations shall be done at least a month prior to the meeting at which the election takes place."

However, it later adds:

"(7) The Council may decide on additional rounds of voting and the admission of new candidates, if a position could not be filled."

The current Board recommends that the Council decides during the Meeting to hold those additional rounds of voting and admission of new members in order to have at least a minimal new board and hence be able to function as an organisation.

It also strongly recommends the Council Members to actively look for candidates to nominate at that time.

4) QUORUM AND COUNCIL MEETING AGENDA

We don't need to meet a particular quorum to elect a new board, discuss to postpone the fee payments, or other matters, but we do need a quorum of 2/3 of the "MEMBERS ENTITLED TO VOTE" in order to approve statutes amendments. However, our statutes also say that the members who do not meet their financial commitments will lose all voting and speaking rights within the organs and bodies of the association (although the Council may allow them to delay/relieve their anual contribution). Therefore, the Board proposes to move the Membership Fee discussion to the beginning of the meeting, because this will determine which members can vote and whether we have a quorum or not.

New proposed agenda:
* Opening of the meeting (25th of May)
* Rules of procedure (25th-28th of May)
* Membership fee (29 of May-1st of June)
* Decision on changes of statutes (2nd-9th of June)
* Election of board (10th-12th of June)
* Admission of new members (13th-14th of June)
* Closing of the meeting (15th of June)

5) MEMBER ATTENDANCE TO THE COUNCIL MEETING

At the moment, we have received confirmation of attendance from the members in the list below:

CONFIRMED:
- PPFR (verified delegate)
- PPIS (verified delegates)
- PPCAT (verified delegate)
- PPDE (verified delegates)
- PPIT
- PPCZ

NOT CONFIRMED:
- PPAT
- PPBE
- PPEE
- PPFI
- PPHR -> Domain does not work anymore. Previous board members report it is currently inactive.
- PPGR
- PPLU
- PPNL
- PPNO
- PPPL
- PPRO
- PPSI
- PPES (Pirate Confederation)
- PPSE
- PPCH
- Young Pirates of Europe

  • PPJP -> domain does not work anymore and emails are bounced back (but since they an observer member, at least it doesn't count in the quorum)

Please, send a list of your delegates (and a link to you party's official decision) as soon as possible if you plan to attend the meeting.

6) COUNCIL MEETING PUBLICITY

It would be great if you could promote the event by sharing these posts in your social media, specially if you have colleagues in member parties who haven't confirmed their attendance.

https://www.facebook.com/events/1941298699490540/
https://twitter.com/EuropeanPirates/status/859447265030701057

Don't hesitate in writting back to us if you have any inquiry regarding the Council Meeting or any other matter.

Best regards,

European Pirates Board

TF

Thierry Fenasse Thu 25 May 2017

English

I have no time nor desire to work on it.

PPEU sent to a former active pirate, who forwarded to unused email (coreteam) and so I put it hier on Loomio.

We may have to discuss, participate, or decline. If someone is insterested ... just do-it.

Français

Je n'ai pas le temps ni l'envie de travailler la dessus.

PPEU a envoyé à un ancien pirate, qui a fait suivre à une adresse non utilisée (coreteam) et donc je dépose ça ici sur Loomio.

Nous pourrions en discuter, participer ou décliner. Si ça intéresse quelqu'un ... faites le.

Nederlands (machine translate)

I heb geen tijd noch wil om dat te werken.

PPEU verzonden naar een voormalige(oud) piraat, die volgen op een niet gebruikt adres (coreteam) en dus liet ik dat hier op Loomio.

Wij kunnen bespreken, deelnemen of weigeren. Als dat belang iemand, doe het.

J

Josse Thu 25 May 2017

This is not the pirate way of working. Delegating delegations works anti-democratically: that is the problem with the EU. We could bring it up as a point that this way of working is anti-democratic and that we propose a more swarm-wise way. I don't see why decisions could not be made by online voting by a larger number. The goal is to encourage as many countries as possible for the next EU elections. Then this statutes mumbo jumbo does not help us.

TF

Thierry Fenasse Sun 28 May 2017

English

For those who wanna join that PPEU assembly just to test / try the VoteIT tool. It's a GPL one and the sources are available here.

I declared myself as NOT the representative for PPBE (see joined capture).

I suppose that if someone wants to promote him / herself as our representative, it may be transparent at some point and we may cry later if bad decisions are made because of our lack of interest.

Life is fun, do not hesitate to enjoy discovering new things.

Français

Pour ceux et celles qui veulent se joindre à l'assemblée du PPEU, ne fut-ce que pour tester / essayer l'outil VoteIT. C'est un outil sous licence GPL et les sources sont disponibles ici.

Je me suis déclaré comme N'ÉTANT PAS le représentant du PPBE (voir capture ci-jointe).

Je suppose que si quelqu'un-e souhaite s'autoproclamer en tant que notre représentant-e, ce sera un tant soit peu transparent et nous pourrons pleurer plus tard si de mauvaises décisions sont prises à cause de notre manque d'intérêt.

La vie est amusante, n'hésitez pas à vous réjouir de la découverte de choses nouvelles.

Nederlands (machine translate)

Voor degenen die willen toetreden tot de PPEU Vergadering, al was het maar om te testen / proberen het gereedschap VoteIT. Het is een hulpmiddel onder de GPL en bronnen beschikbaar zijn hier.

Verklaarde ik mezelf als NIET zijnde de vertegenwoordiger van PPBE (zie bijgevoegde capture).

Ik denk dat als iemand wil zich te verkondigen als onze vertegenwoordiger, het zal een beetje transparen zijn, en kunnen we later huilen als slechte beslissingen zijn gemaakt als gevolg van onze gebrek aan belangstelling.

Het leven is leuk, voel je vrij om zich te verheugen in de ontdekking van nieuwe dingen.

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Sat 7 Oct 2017

Ce dimanche 8 octobre ont lieu les élections locales au Grand-Duché de Luxembourg.

Les 20 et 21 octobre auront lieu les élections législatives en République tchèque.

###################

Deze zondag 8 oktober vinden in het Groothertogdom Luxemburg gemeenteraadsverkiezingen plaats.

20 en 21 oktober zijn het de parlementsverkiezingen in de Tsjechische Republiek.

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Sun 8 Oct 2017

Apparemment 3 pirates ont été élus dans leur commune pour les élections locales au Luxembourg :

  • 2 dans la commune de Pétange (9.18% des voix pour la liste pirate)
  • 1 dans la commune de Remich (14%)
  • 0 pour Luxembourg-Ville (2,64%)
  • 0 pour Kielen (5,53%)
  • 0 pour Esch-sur-Alzette (1,66%)
RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Mon 16 Oct 2017

Email just received at contact@ppbe :
###############

Hello,

A forward of the official invitation for the council meeting in November
to those being a member party of European Pirate Party (PPEU) and others
who are interested its work. (in BCC)

See the memberlist at: http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=ppeu:members

Best regards

Thomas

-------- Weitergeleitete Nachricht --------
Betreff: Re: [pp-eu.council] Request for a council meeting - Art. 14 (7)
Statutes PPEU - Prague, Nov. 18./19., 2017
Datum: Sun, 15 Oct 2017 21:32:27 +0200
Von: Mikuláš Peksa mikulas.peksa@pirati.cz
Antwort an: Council of the European Pirate Party
pp-eu.council@lists.pp-international.net
An: Council of the European Pirate Party
pp-eu.council@lists.pp-international.net,
pp-eu.board@lists.pp-international.net

Dear council members,

Respecting the article 16 (6) of the Statues, on behalf of the Board, I
hereby invite you to a council meeting.
The council meeting will be held on the 18th and 19th of November 2017
in Prague at Česká pirátská strana, Řehořova 943/19, Praha 3, Czech
Republik.

We, all the Board members, deeply regret that article 14 (7) of the
Statues was violated as the Council meeting did not take place during
2016. Please support this very last opportunity to organise a meeting in
2017.

Looking forward to see you in Prague!

Best regards,

Mikuláš Peksa
Board member
European Pirate Party


Od: Thomas Gaul thomas.gaul@piratenpartei.de
Komu: PPEU Board pp-eu.board@lists.pp-international.net,
Datum: 10.10.2017 22:46
Předmět: [pp-eu.council] Request for a council meeting - Art. 14 (7)

Dear Board of PPEU,

On behalf of the following Member Parties of PPEU and its delegates the
undersigned requests a council meeting according to article 14 (7) of
the PPEU - to be held on the 18th and 19th of November 2017 in Prague
at Česká pirátská strana, Řehořova 943/19, Praha 3, Czech Republik:

Pirate Party of France
Pirate Party of Switzerland
Pirate Party of Czech Republik
Pirate Party of Norway
Pirate Party of Germany
Pirate Party of Austria

Additionally we propose the agenda provided to you in the annex to this
letter.

The mentioned place is already reserved for PPEU. Please send out your
invitation by 15.10.2017 at the latest.

For your information PPDE and other parties will take care for further
formalities.

On behalf of the above mentioned parties.

Best regards

Thomas Gaul, Council member for PPDE
Jens Stomber, Council member for PPDE
Alexander Spies, Council member for PPDE
Gregory Engels, Council member for PPDE

===========================================
Sample Invitation, can be used as one to one copy:

Invitation to the PPEU Council Meeting November 2017

Dear European Pirates,

We would like to invite you to the next council meeting of PPEU. This
meeting will be held in Prague on

   November 18th and 19th 2017

at

   Česká pirátská strana, Řehořova 943/19, Praha 3, Czech Republik

The council meeting is the equivalent of the General Assembly for the
organization, and at the meeting we will among other things elect a new
board, decide on the admittance of observer members and have a
discussion on the future direction for our organization. A draft agenda
you will find in the annex of this Email.

Other pirates and interested persons are also very welcome to join as
guests at the Council meeting.

Socialising events for Friday, 17th and Saturday 18th will be announced
in time.

Registration
To register for the conference please send an email to
international@piratenpartei.de and put the organisers in CC
(ppeuorg@pp-international.net). In the email you should include name,
if you are a delegate from a party. If you will attend remotely (via
mumble) please inform as as you will have to hand in another document
to very your attendence. This will be taken care of later.

Proposing candidates for the board and putting forth proposals to the
Council meeting
All ordinary members can put forth candidates to the board of the
European Pirate Party and submit items for the agenda of the Council
meeting.

Please note that the deadline for board nominations and proposals for
statutes changes are 18th of October 2017.

Best regards

XXY, Board of PPEU


Annex:

Proposed Agenda:

17.11.2017 - FRIDAY (Inoffical part):
t.b.a.

18.11.2017 - SATURDAY (6 hours):

  1. Opening of the meeting (13:00)

a. Appoint 1 chairperson, 2 secretaries, 2 vote counters
b. Establishing quorum (13:10)
c. Adopt rules of procedure & agenda (13:15)

  1. Membership fee requests (delay, partial or total relievance) (13:20)

  2. New members presentation & admission
    a. Ordinary Member :
    b. Observer Member :

  3. Report be the Board of PPEU

  4. Discussion & vote - Future of the organisation

  5. Discussion & vote - Statutes amendments

Proposal 1: Move to Luxembourg - Link
Proposal 2: More to Luxembourg plus more - Link

19.11.2017 - SUNDAY

  • Remaining items from Saturday, if there are any
  • Approval of accounts and reports
  • Board elections
  • Other items

Agenda http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=council-agenda_2017
Candidates:

http://ppeu.net/wiki/doku.php?id=3rd_council_meeting_2017:nominations

internationaler Koordinator - international Coordinator
Piratenpartei Deutschland - Pirate Party of Germany

Pflugstraße 9a, D-10115 Berlin, Germany

Vorstand: Patrick Schiffer (Vorsitzender), Carsten Sawosch
(Stellvertretender Vorsitzender), Lothar Krauß (Schatzmeister), Kristos
Thingilouthis (Politischer Geschäftsführer), Steffen Heuer
(Stellvertretender Schatzmeister), Thomas Knoblich (Amtierender
Generalsekretär), Alexander Niedermeier (Stellvertretender politischer
Geschäftsführer)

KDV

Koen De Voegt Tue 17 Oct 2017

A lot of discussion about this is still going on the international level as this is not an official invitation form the PPEU board. Regardless it's time that we, PPBE, make our position towards PPEU (and PPI for that matter) clear.

I propose we open polls, here on loomio, to confirm our membership to both organisations. If membership is confirmed, then we elect new representatives towards both international Pirate organisations. Other option is to wait for a next GA, but in that case we will once again not be formally represented at an international meeting.

H

HgO Tue 17 Oct 2017

I never understood what is the purpose behind PPEU and PPI ? I think we should clarify this, as this would help us a lot to decide if we want to stay in those organizations. As a reminder, this topic "popped" in the past during a lab (Well, to be fair we didn't talk about this during the lab, as you (Koen) didn't give us enough information at that time).

Regarding PPEU, the membership fee is 300€/year, just saying... I'm currently trying to understand how the PPI's membership fee is working...

Finally, who would be our candidates anyways ?

KDV

Koen De Voegt Tue 17 Oct 2017

Let me start of by saying that it is a sad day for PPBE, when the first person responding to any loomio question is someone who has clearly shown himself to be the most active and longest serving troll in PPBE's history. Please HgO keep on going until you are the last person in the party because you as an individual have cost us several active members.

Pirates inform themselves, but for non pirates like HgO I will gladly provide the requested information:

for PPEU:

Article 4 – Principles

(1) The Association shall pursue international aims in respect of the
principles on which the European Union is based, namely principles of
freedom, equality, solidarity, democracy, respect of Human Rights and
Fundamental Freedoms, and respect for the Rule of Law.

(2) The Association shall work as transparent as possible, regarding
the protection of personal data and the right to privacy of the people
involved.

(3) The Association shall take into account the opinions of the
individual Pirates who are members of any of the member parties.
Important decisions shall be based on democratic principles for the
inner workings of the Association.

(4) The Association shall adhere to all regulations necessary to being recognized as a Party at European level.

(5) The members of the Association shall adopt a common Pirate Manifesto
(Annex C) which shall reflect the principles and policies of the
European Pirate movement.

(6) All decisions concerning choices and attitudes of PPEU member
parties or political organizations in their own countries remain
strictly under the sovereignty of national parties.

(7) The Association may carry out all operations and conduct all
activities (including real estate transactions), both in Belgium and
abroad, which directly or indirectly increase or promote its objectives
under the condition that these activities adhere to the principles of
this organisation stated in this article.
The Association does not undertake industrial or commercial transactions
and does not seek to procure a profit to its members.

Article 5 - Objectives

(1) Purpose of the organisation is to represent the European Pirate
movement towards the European institutions and to work in the interest
of its members by, amongst other things:

  • a) Facilitating coordination and cooperation between its members.

  • b) Assisting its members to promote the Pirate movement in Europe.

  • c) Taking as its principles the Pirate manifesto, as will be annexed to the statutes.

  • d) Functioning as a link between European Pirate Parties and Pirate MEPs.

  • e) Encouraging and support its members in organizing events focused on European topics.

for PPI:

II. Goals

(1) The goals of the association are:

a) to act according to the major interests and goals of its Members,
b) to raise awareness and widen the spread of the pirate movement, and
c) to support the pirate movement and strengthen its bonds internally and externally,
d) to promote and support Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms.

(2) To accomplish these objectives the association shall, among other things:

a) provide for and extend communication between the Members of the association,
b) assist in the foundation of new pirate parties,
c) organize and coordinate global campaigns and events,
d) act as mediator or arbitrator for any disputes between Members if requested to do so,
e) share information and coordinate research on the core pirate topics,
f) contact NGO’s, administrations and international organizations, and
g) act as a contact centre for the pirate movement.

H

HgO Wed 18 Oct 2017

I see why you are mute most of the time : when you speak, your mouth is full of insults...

So, for PPEU and PPI, there is a difference between the principles, the theory, etc. and the reality. In other words, I don't think these organizations respected their principles, nor achieved their objectives so far. That's why I was asking you : is there any activity report from PPI and PPEU available somewhere ?

The reason why you are getting mad is because we are talking about your baby. We all know who would be the candidate if we were to confirm our membership. Listen carefully @koendv I will never vote for you to be our delegate in any of those organizations, even if you were the only choice.

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Wed 18 Oct 2017

"Pirates inform themselves" of course, but they also provide the information in the best possible way for sharing.

So I tried to gather the info that I could find about PPEU (only PPEU, not talking about PPI, otherwise we will all be lost).

  • August 2013 : "Belgium" sent Koen, Paul and Kash as delegates at the PPEU
  • 19/01/2014 : at a PPBe GA, we decided to join PPEU which hadn't been founded then, because it was our last opportunity to do it before the European elections.
  • 16/02/2014 : At a Coreteam meeting, PPEU is discussed. It is "in its founding stages", and the Coreteam named Paul B. and Kash as delegates.
  • 21/03/2014 : PPEU was founded in Brussels. Paul B. became member of the board.
  • 20/04/2014 : At another Coreteam meeting, Thomas became delegate.
  • 16/06/2014 : Last time it was mentionned at a Coreteam meeting, Paul B. said that PPEU was "not really useful for the moment".
  • 17-18/07/2015 : the 1st Council Meeting (= GA) of PPEU is held, I see no trace of PPBe there (but as you can see in the link, there is not much information to be seen either).

That is basically all I can find on PPEU, so it's a bit hard to find reasons to keep being a member when it's such a black box. Not even mentioning the fact that it is very odd to have such an opaque and hierarchical organization above us (it complicates everything with delegations, representative democracy etc).

And on a personal note, I'm very happy of what @hgo brings to the PPBe since years, it has been most helpful to help sharing the information between us and organize better in many ways. But let's keep this topic to PPEU :)

KDV

Koen De Voegt Wed 18 Oct 2017

Thank you Renaud,

As you so kindly point out, PPBE has formally decided to join PPEU in 2014. We have never formally decided leave the organisation. So technically we are a member and in doing so have obligations both in representation and and financial contributions. I have merely asked to either take up those responsibilities or formally resign from the organisation. And that we should make this decision clear before the planned Council meeting in Prague. I plan to attend that meeting as observer regardless of any decision by PPBE. And I am willing to defend any position PPBE is taking if asked to do so. I would gladly see an international team/squad in Belgium re-emerge. That is the reason I organised an event for the last PPI online GA. I would be happy if interest is higher. It offers a real possibility to contribute to the international development of the Pirate movement.

It is absolutely true that PPEU so far has failed to achieve even the most fundamental things it's required to do by it's statutes/GA. So indeed there are valid reasons to leave the organisation. My personal position on PPEU has shifted back and forth a lot during the last year or so. Currently I favour staying in the organisation. Leaving an organisation because it is not functioning the way you like feels like an NVA approach. I believe we should try to contribute constructively to the further development of PPEU. The large membership costs are one of the main arguments for leaving I see. Now I will repeat my original question, shall we confirm our membership before the planned meeting in Prague, or shall we leave the organisation. And how will we take that decision. Here on loomio? Doesn't feel like the right place. There is next to nobody here. Waiting for the next GA then maybe?

And I would like to thank HgO for his last email proving my point about not informing himself.

V

Vincent Wed 18 Oct 2017

There is a 3rd way, actually: Article 8 of PPEU's statutes allows us to be an observer member.
No offense ment, but I don't think PPEU's membership is worth 300€ today.

Speaking of the membership fee, I wouldn't be suprised if PPBE had accepted to be a member before this condition was added. In that case, since (to my knowledge) we have never paid that fee, we are de facto at best observer members.

KDV

Koen De Voegt Wed 18 Oct 2017

Well actually yes, stupid of me to not think about that, I suggest we become an observer member of PPEU for the time being.

Vincent +1

H

HgO Wed 18 Oct 2017

Koen, could you stop attacking me ? You don't know me, so please keep your opinion of me for yourself. Thanks.

I propose to discuss about this during the next lab, on 28th October.

For the membership, I agree with Vincent that we could be an observer member until we have made our decision.

TF

Thierry Fenasse Wed 18 Oct 2017

It is also possible to start a proposition here on Loomio. It's open, transparent and public.

Subject

Let's consider PPBE as an observer member of PPEU

** Content **

According to Article 8 of PPEU status, do we - PPBE - agree to become an observer member and to have .... (Koen if you wish?) as our representative.

During your vote, add a comment if you want to involve yourself on a PPBE and international pirates project (squad) and contribute to build relations between PPEU, PPI, and other Pirates parties and movements.

Remember this vote and comment is public.

** Closing date**

Some time before the Prague meeting?

This is an example, copy/paste it or adapt it. @koendv it will be coherent if it's you who launches it.

Regards

KDV

Koen De Voegt Wed 18 Oct 2017

No that is not what Vincent said, and it's not a viable option. If you would have read Renaud's mail you would see that we are a member since 2014. Technically we seem to have an outstanding debt to PPEU of 1200 euro. (Membership fees for 2014/2015/2016/2017, 300euro each) I don't believe PPEU will actually force us to pay that sum, as several members have not paid their fees. Still I believe it best we take a decision on the matter before the next Council meeting, or at the very least before the end of the year. Then again we might be kicked out, or kicked down to observer member at the next Council meeting, because we have not for filled our obligations to the organisation, regardless of our decision.

J

Josse Wed 18 Oct 2017

I would like us to pay gladly the 1200 euro if they would dare to make the point at the European Union and explain its gigantic democratic deficit.

H

HgO Wed 18 Oct 2017

As stated in the PPEU statutes :

(8) If a Member Party did not pay their due membership fee for two consecutive years until the first Council meeting of the second year, they are deemed to have left the Association by resignation automatically.

Therefore, according to their statutes, we are currently not an ordinary member of the PPEU. And there is no way we will pay 1200€, since we weren't represented at the previous GA, according to the minutes Renaud pointed.

KDV

Koen De Voegt Wed 18 Oct 2017

Hmm, it would have made more sense if that would have been in section:

Article 12 – Resignation, Exclusion, Suspension, Loss of Membership and Death / Dissolution / Bankruptcy

So seems we were member in 2014 and 2015, and have a debt of only 800 euro. (Which I don't think we will ever have to pay) Good news in a way, I guess. That means we were invited in error actually. Looking a bit further at their website that actually means PPEU has no parties as member at all. Or we might still be overlooking a Council decision that wavers the fees or something...


Great to see that you did finally read something, maybe there it hope for you yet.

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Wed 18 Oct 2017

That last comment of you was completely useless and irritating, @koendv Please stop?

Anyway, now something is clear (unless someone disagrees?) : PPBe is not a member of PPEU at the current time.

FD

Florence D. Thu 19 Oct 2017

Merci Renaud pour le job de mise à disposition d infos. Je suis sans wifi sans ordi avec de la 3g et un Windows phone qui bugue sur loomio alors s il y en a bien une qui ne s informe pas par elle même sur le ppeurop (et sur pleins d autres trucs) c est moi bien plus q hgo. La discussion prend une sale tournure je trouve parcequ elle nous en apprends plusieurs fois plus sur les querelles internes que sur le fond du sujet même si ça m a fait sourire. Je ne sais pas si c est a 52 inscrits loomio que revient la légitimité de décider quoiquecesoit sur la question ou une autre mais si un vote se fait ici je voterais actuellement pour la sortie officielle. Bonne journee. Flo

V

Vincent Thu 19 Oct 2017

Bonjour Florence,

En effet, un vote sur Loomio serait purement consultatif. De toute façon l'ambigüité est résolue:
Nous ne sommes plus membres, et ce en parfait accord avec les statuts des deux organisations.

Aussi loin que je me souvienne, les instances pirates internationales ont toujours été une pomme de discorde. La meilleure stratégie est celle de @vanecx , qui consiste à recadrer le débat et éliminer les obstacles. Big up, Renaud!

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Sat 21 Oct 2017

Outside of this debate around PPEU : Czech national elections end today.

All votes have not been counted yet, but Pirates should have about 9-10% and about 22 members in the Czech Parliament (out of 200 in total).

Next weekend it's the Icelandic elections (since the government collapsed), and the first ones without Birgitta Jónsdóttir. Pirates currently have about 8-10% in the polls.

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Sun 29 Oct 2017

It was national elections' day yesterday in Iceland.

Pirates have won 9.2% (6 seats, out of 63), which is much lower than last elections where they had won 14.5% and 10 seats. That makes them the 6th largest party in a very divided parliament.

But still, they are members of the national parliament for the 3d time in a row.

Complete results : http://icelandmonitor.mbl.is/elections2017/

H

HgO Wed 8 Nov 2017

I've sent the following reply to the official invitation to the PPEU's GA :

Dear Thomas,

Thank you for this invitation to the next PPEU's General Assembly.

We discussed about this internally, and it appears that we never paid our membership fees. This means that the PPBe is not officially a member of the PPEU.

We will need to decide whether we want to join again the PPEU or not, probably during our next GA (we haven't decided of a date yet).

Therefore, I'm sorry to say that we won't send a delegate to this GA.

Pirately yours,

Hadrien ~ HgO, PPBe

TF

Thierry Fenasse Wed 8 Nov 2017

That's better then nothing! Thanks

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Fri 2 Nov 2018

I forgot to mention, but I think most of you already know it :

  • the new mayor of Prague is a Pirate : https://torrentfreak.com/the-new-mayor-of-prague-is-a-pirate-181029/ (unless the czech pirates crash in the next months, their current results would mean we will keep a presence in the European Parliament)

  • In the Grand Duchy of Luxemburg, there were national elections, and 2 pirates managed to become elected in the national chamber. We currently have pirates elected at national offices in 3 countries : Iceland, Czech republic and Luxemburg.

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Mon 12 Nov 2018

Email received this afternoon at contact@ppbe :

Dear all,
Given that the EU-elections are coming closer very quickly I would like to set up a meeting between pirates active in the Greater Region (Wallonia, German part of Belgium, Lorraine, Saarland, Rheinland-Pfalz and Luxembourg).
As you know, we managed to capture two seats in the national elections in Luxembourg and we are currently trying to somehow manage to set-up a competitive list for the 2019 EU elections where we might be lucky enough to capture one out of 6 seats.
To achieve this ambitious goal we might need your help and support, especially targeting Luxembourgers living across your borders (~51.000 ppl). One scenario imaginable would be us providing you with posters in your languages (reduces your budget, increases our common visibility). Yet nothing has yet been decided at this stage, especially as we would like to gather your feedback first.
Given that we have our electoral congress for the EU list on December 15th I would like to invite you to come to Luxembourg on that weekend and/or send a delegation to discuss how we can pragmatically cooperate without too much overhead in order to get the best possible outcome in the EU elections.
We as PPLU would also be ready to help setup and/or maintain local chapters of your respective parties in the border region, as those increase our common visibility. Yet here as well, the initiative needs to come from you, as we don't want to force anything upon you. Both, Marc and myself, are willing to visit those (potential) chapters and lend a hand in order to revive the Pirate activities in the Greater Region and especially in the region bordering Luxembourg.
Who would be in to meet up for a working lunch on Sunday December 16th in Luxembourg-City?
Of course you might also join us informally for the EU-congress on Saturday morning and we could arrange for informal meeting throughout the weekend as well as a cultural program.
Kind regards,
Sven Clement
President & Member of Parliament
Piraten Lëtzebuerg

IB

Ilja Baert Mon 12 Nov 2018

us providing you with posters
reduces your budget
:laughing:

I wouldn't mind tho, I just think it's funny how they say it :laughing:

It would be good for international communication as well! (And maybe share ideas about international coöperation).

MB

Michel Braibant Thu 15 Nov 2018

I would be happy to answer their message. Do you agree with that?

MB

Michel Braibant Fri 16 Nov 2018

No answer: I consider it's OK for you. I do it this evening.

MB

Michel Braibant Mon 3 Dec 2018

FYI: I answered their mail two weeks ago but no reply from Piraten Lëtzebuerg (Sven Clement).

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Thu 3 Jan 2019

Forwarding an email that I received from Markéta Gregorová, chairperson of PPEU (sorry about the Google links...) :

Dearest Pirates!

It happened. After many many hours of your work and dedication, we have a final version of the 2019 CEEP!

It can be seen here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H2Jdwx-W7527-GyZQPTHtVeZaAxmwX3HDbbPlt2pE0Q/edit?usp=sharing

I took the liberty and put it into some kind of a form with pictures and stuff, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is the final one. :) I also divided it into sections, let me know, if you think they are good or feel free to suggest changes. I'm discussing with Bastian a website for it right now, so stay tuned!

So, what now?

Start translating it and putting it into vote in your country, so that most of us can manage to really sign it on 9th February in Luxembourg.
I kindly ask everyone proficient in English or native speakers to go through the document and make a language and grammar check.
I personally consider the form readable, even though some parts consist more of paragraphs of texts and some of bullet points. But of course I'd like us to decide consensually. So please vote in this poll to decide the form: https://linkto.run/p/Q255FFGT until 10th January, thank you!

There is also a parallel discussion on choosing 3-5 priorities to promote. I fell in love with polls :D, so I'm offering that you can vote on and add any priorities here: https://pollunit.com/en/polls/uGqrTo0ISO_mDWkir0r6dQ. Let's close this one at the end of January, before the Luxembourg meeting. :)

I wish you a great beginning of the year and best,

Markéta Gregorová

MB

Michel Braibant Thu 3 Jan 2019

Foreign affairs missing ?

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Thu 3 Jan 2019

p. 26 and following

MB

Michel Braibant Thu 3 Jan 2019

Yes I've seen that but still, it is not sufficient. What about commercial wars with China, USA, etc.

CC

Christophe Cop Thu 3 Jan 2019

On first sight and samling some parts of the text, I don't see any reason to not approve it. So my current default vote is 'approved'

MB

Michel Braibant Thu 3 Jan 2019

Yeap, I would have add some stuff, but that's straight forward. Not bad at all at first reading. But I need to read it again.

J

Josse Thu 3 Jan 2019

It wants to be explicit by being a program, but then it is awkwardly superficial, but on the other hand, there is nothing which says we can not at least be ok with it (approving is a bit too strong for me). I really miss being explicit about the problem instead of proposing half baked solutions: buses and trains might not exist in the future. It will be shared cars and hyperloops. And where is our basic income?

MB

Michel Braibant Fri 4 Jan 2019

It is much much better than nothing ! I am already very happy with it. Trying to reach perfection could drive us to nowhere by producing nothing. I prefer something that can be improved than a project that is never finished because we want it perfect and rework it non-stop.

J

Josse Fri 4 Jan 2019

It helps to say we have common ground on the European level, but strictly speaking we don't need it.

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Mon 7 Jan 2019

Hello, the PPEU treasurer contacted us to have the PPBe coordinates in order to update their databese. He asked Name of contact person (if applicable) / Official Address of the national party / Phone / Preferred email. I answered him to give our contact address (which he already has because that's how he contacted us), and nothing else because it's all I have. He's now insisting that he needs at least a physicial address, even proposes to setup one for us in Luxembourg, so we can receive... the invoice for our membership.

I'm informing you so you know, but as we have already discussed it a year ago (see above), I'll inform him that we are not ordinary member anymore and we don't ask for a physical address in Luxembourg.

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Wed 9 Jan 2019

Hello, it's me (mario), and I come to haunt you with PPEU stuff.

Markéta, who is the chairperson of PPEU, contacted me after my exchange with PPEU treasurer. She suggested we become Observer Member of PPEU.

The obligation for an Observer member :
- to stay politically active and participate in elections, if possible and feasible
- we don't have to pay a fee

The rights, as Observer member :
a) to participate in the political discussions and to speak at Council meetings,
b) to participate in the development of the political agenda,
c) to participate in the decision making process,
d) to have access to all non-confidential documents of the Association,
e) to participate in common campaigns and events and
f) to have access to use of the Associations logo and other representational devices.

I believe that this solution would provide us with at least one advantage : our status would be clearer, in relationship with PPEU. So, unless someone proposes another way, I'll open this week a proposal to become Observer to formalize it, so we can move on for now.

K

koen_v Thu 10 Jan 2019

Seems ok to me at first sight, but I am curious about the sentence "to have access to all non-confidential documents of the Association" (which apparently applies to both Ordinary & Observer Members): what are the confidential documents about? and who has access to them if even ordinary members don't have access to them?

IB

Ilja Baert Sat 12 Jan 2019

what are the confidential documents about?

I'd like to know that to. Another thing, what are the non-confidential documents and what's so special that they need explicit mentioning? Are they not public by default? (If not, I say leak 'em :sunglasses: )

No objections to observing member, but they do seem as bad as PPI with all their red tape Isn't this supposed to be the party of the internet? More efficient and stuff...?

IB

Ilja Baert Sat 12 Jan 2019

.> to participate in the political discussions
.> to participate in the development of the political agenda
.> to participate in common campaigns and events
Other things you shouldn't have to be member for imo

I propose to give everyone access by proxy ^

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout started a proposal Sat 12 Jan 2019

PPBe becomes Observer Member of PPEU Closed Tue 15 Jan 2019

By becoming Observer member, we clarify the status of PPBe concerning PPEU, while giving us some rights, and no obligation regarding membership fee.

Results
Agree - 10
Abstain - 3
Disagree - 0
Block - 0
13 people have voted (17%)
RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout
Agree
Sat 12 Jan 2019

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Sat 12 Jan 2019

they do seem as bad as PPI

@iljabaert I'd say that they suffer the same flaws (not enough transparency, delegation-based organization), but I see more need for PPEU to exist (it coordinated, somehow, the making of the program ; there is probably a need for a European party for EU institutions), still looking for reasons to exist for PPI (giving thousands of euros to developers for their infrastructure?). Also, PPI by nature is indeed a collection of Pirate Parties, and PPEU doesn't have to be like that, could just be the gathering of European Pirates, so I have more hope. Or I'm less desperate.

MB

Michel Braibant
Agree
Sat 12 Jan 2019

HCS

Hector Cavalcanti Saavedra
Agree
Sat 12 Jan 2019

K

koen_v
Abstain
Sun 13 Jan 2019

(based on the information at my disposal, or more specifically, the lack of information, at this moment, concerning certain things (unknown which are the 'confidential documents' which are even confidential to ordinary members) I abstain -although in general I tend to be positive towards such initiatives trying to achieve more, ao more widespread, unity)

B

bobrappe
Agree
Sun 13 Jan 2019

VD

Valerie D.
Agree
Sun 13 Jan 2019

D

David
Agree
Sun 13 Jan 2019

Z

ZeFredz
Agree
Mon 14 Jan 2019

H

HgO
Agree
Mon 14 Jan 2019

BSI

Begonia Saavedra Ibarra
Agree
Mon 14 Jan 2019

TJ

Tón Jafnari
Agree
Tue 15 Jan 2019

LM

Lander Meeusen
Abstain
Tue 15 Jan 2019

KDV

Koen De Voegt
Abstain
Tue 15 Jan 2019

I believe a better way to take a decision in this matter is to offer members the ability to decide on all options:
* Remain a member and regulate our past membership fees
* Remain a "bad" member and don't pay our membership fees
* Become an observer member
* Quit the organisation
Please keep note that most members have not paid their membership fees and the "bad" member option would not be a problem at this time. My ideal choice is the first one, pragmatically I choice the "bad" member option.

KDV

Koen De Voegt Tue 15 Jan 2019

PPEU has preformed worse than PPI in the last couple of years. (Not having regular board meetings, not organising an annual GA) Both PPI and PPEU have been established as umbrella organisations of Pirate Parties.

There is a third less know organisation that aims at bringing individual pirates from around the globe together called "Pirates without Borders". PWOB seems to be mostly inactive now.

Unlike PPEU, PPI however has introduced individual membership a few years ago. Although this is currently basically a supporter without added voting right or anything. A good fleshed out proposal on how to balance voting power in an organisation that has both parties and individual members would be more then welcome.

The main problem facing all these organisations is the same, great ambitions and goals, lack of volunteers and lack of funding. Which can also be said about most national/local Pirate Parties by the way.

Transparency can certainly be improved in both organisations. However they both have public board meetings and the meeting reports are published. Making them both more transparent then PPBE for example.

PPEU will get its own funding from the EU as soon as there are Pirates elected on the Regional/National/European in at least 7 EU countries. We currently qualify in just 3 countries. (PPCZ, PPDE, PPLU (Iceland is not an EU member) So technically there is no need for PPEU at this time. Building a common program doesn't require an organisation. The organisation didn't exist the first time we did that.

PPI is representing Pirates at the United Nations both in Geneva and New York. For this work to continue a formal organisation is required by the UN. A lot of work is needed for this and it's definitely an area were more communication/transparency to the Pirates and the outside world in general is required.

I also don't see any reason why IT infrastructure would be better organised at an EU then an International level.

Being a (observer) member of PPEU only, and not PPI seems odd considering the current state of affairs.

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Fri 18 Jan 2019

Email received today at contact@pirateparty.be

Translation : we're invited PPEU Congress in a few weeks in Luxembourg.

Sorry about the Google links, as usual... :sick:

Bonjour aux pirate de la Belgique !

Cette année le congrès des pirates européens au thème des élections européenne le 26 mai 2019 aura lieu à Luxembourg le 9 février 2019 au
Centre Culturel Schéiss

142 Val Sainte-Croix

L-1370 Luxembourg

Nous espérons que vous participez à ce weekend pirate.

Diffusez-le mot et rejoignez-nous et rencontrez-les pirates européens avec entre autre ces activités :

Un atelier avec Julia Reda, membre du parlement européen
des invités spéciales
une visite du parlement, de la ville de Luxembourg
le lieu de signature de l’accord de Schengen
une conférence de presse
et plus

Tous les pirates qui désirent nous rejoindre doivent remplir ce formulaire

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSc-9EjTNTy1bGT4x5INpZcJkuAGYI5Sj4XD0uyK3gCzEppIrQ/viewform?fbclid=IwAR1L85KF40KixoP3pEz0twqsFkj5p9fBwF457oEVpoz9eUOHBDK9DJBjxT4

pour les événement sociaux et les visites, enregistrez-vous ici.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeHRgudQIGPvDjSdE8iiLfkzhNxRzT9Ly8KQPpfaxZyH3uu-g/viewform

Bon weekend au pirates belges !

Cordialement

Nathalie Goedert
Piratepartei Lëtzebuerg

+352 20 60 66 60
nathalie.goedert@piratepartei.lu

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Tue 28 May 2019

[ENG] FYI, there are now 4 Pirates in the European Parliament (instead of just 1), so that's good news. 3 of them come from Czechia and 1 from Germany. One question remains : which political group will they join?

[FR] Pour info pour les distraits, nous avons désormais 4 Pirates au Parlement européen, au lieu d'1. 3 proviennent de Tchéquie et 1 d'Allemagne. Une question reste ouverte : à quel groupe européen vont-ils s'affilier ?

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Fri 14 Jun 2019

So Pirates have joined the Greens/EFA group in the European Parliament, which is the same group as our Pirates were in the 2 previous terms (Andersdotter+Engström in 2009 ; Reda in 2014).

Have also joined this group : a German elected for DiePARTEI (a satiric party), an elected for VOLT and, probably, Carles Puigdemont (but he is not allowed yet to work as MEP because he should take an oath in Madrid, but if he goes he'll be arrested).

KDV

Koen De Voegt Fri 14 Jun 2019

Damian Boeselager, German MEP from Volt is also joining Green/EFA

Op 14/06/19 om 21:18 schreef Renaud Van
Eeckhout (Loomio):

ÿÿÿÿÿÿÿÿ

Renaud Van Eeckhout

Renaud Van Eeckhout gaf commentaar in: European Pirate Party ( https://www.loomio.org/d/B9G1WsfK/comment/2025752?membership_token=pGgLg7bEWM62msy2GuUidJby&utm_campaign=discussion_mailer&utm_medium=email&utm_source=new_comment )

So Pirates have joined the Greens/EFA group in the European
Parliament, which is the same group as our Pirates were in the 2
previous terms (Andersdotter+Engström in 2009 ; Reda in 2014).

Have also joined this group : a German elected for DiePARTEI (a
satiric party),

Beantwoord deze e-mail onmiddelijk of bekijk het op Loomio ( https://www.loomio.org/d/B9G1WsfK/comment/2025752?membership_token=pGgLg7bEWM62msy2GuUidJby&utm_campaign=discussion_mailer&utm_medium=email&utm_source=new_comment ).

Zet E-mails af ( https://www.loomio.org/email_actions/unfollow_discussion/240409/PRb-Be4LDZqwUKvwxqx9?utm_campaign=discussion_mailer&utm_medium=email&utm_source=new_comment ) voor deze
discussie.
Verander je e-mailvoorkeuren ( https://www.loomio.org/email_preferences?unsubscribe_token=PRb-Be4LDZqwUKvwxqx9&utm_campaign=discussion_mailer&utm_medium=email&utm_source=new_comment ).

Logo

Sent via Migadu.com, world's easiest email hosting ( https://migadu.com?s=sent_via )

PB

Paul Bossu Sat 6 Jul 2019

Marel Kolaja just elected as vice-president of the European parliament !

CC

Christophe Cop Tue 9 Jul 2019

Did you apply for some position in the Pirate MEP's team already, or did nothing catch your interest yet? A new procurement for public advisors have been opened and so a new chance for you to join the smiling team on the photo! ;D

Markéta was looking separately for an advisor focused on INTA, AFET and SEDE, however both her and others are also keen on welcoming anyone that is focused on various committees. Pirates are known for their sharing (and caring :)). Do you see yourself somewhere in the mix of IMCO, CULT, JURI, LIBE, INTA, AFET and SEDE? Don't hesitate to let us know!

https://european-pirateparty.eu/pirate-meps-are-looking-for-their-team/?fbclid=IwAR1ZlQAIQBWP4zE7efiPw7pispX19b4EDDEGiQ3j5SqnqckC8vTfnc6s3FI
(direct link to procurement: https://www.lmcg2.com/pd/1394434806/?rps=202)

RVE

Renaud Van Eeckhout Tue 24 Sep 2019

If you dislike upload filters & censorship, this should trigger you :

EU terror filter negotiations to begin: Here’s where we stand

https://european-pirateparty.eu/eu-terror-filter-negotiations-to-begin-heres-where-we-stand/