Loomio
February 9th, 2020 15:27

DisCO - Distributed Cooperative Organization

Matt Noyes
Matt Noyes Public Seen by 73

In a separate discussion the idea was raised of reading and discussing the DisCO Manifesto and/or Governance Rules. (This could also lead to a Social.Coop Happy Hour video chat with someone from Guerilla Media Collective.)

emi do

emi do February 24th, 2020 07:19

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emi do

emi do February 24th, 2020 07:19

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Luke Opperman

Luke Opperman February 24th, 2020 00:50

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Ana Ulin

Ana Ulin February 20th, 2020 05:47

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mike_hales

mike_hales February 17th, 2020 18:37

@Nick Sellen All of the above! 1, 2 and 3. All pretty chewy. Personally I would like to really go after 'value' (including 'use value') and replace it in every instance with 'valuing' as a skilful facilitated practice of actual persons in actual contexts of commoning.

I really appreciate your gloss and look forward to digesting it more, but am not sure it moves toward either narrower focus or starting simple! But I now will try to identify equivalents of your 1/2/3 as I read the documents. Maybe if this list didn't run to more than, say, five core themes, that might just be workable?

Caitlin Waddick

Caitlin Waddick February 17th, 2020 17:15

I will participate, if I am able once the meeting time is set. ❤️🤓.

I don’t know why: I don’t have permission to vote in the time poll. 🤔

Stacco Troncoso

Stacco Troncoso February 17th, 2020 16:47

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Nick Sellen

Nick Sellen February 17th, 2020 15:48

my interest to start higher level and drill into detail later is with the thought that people who join this group might be starting in many different places, so having a way to synchronise ourselves could be useful before detailing with the nitty-gritty.

so from my perspective starting with the why not the how is a nice approach. why are we (anybody who joins the calls) here? why did this DiSCO thing start?

I would worry that just starting with the how part, it's reduced to a set of technical rules to discuss.

to make it more specific, the things that interest me so far from reading the manifesto (I didn't even finish it yet...):

  • the progression of: co-ops --> open co-ops --> open value co-ops

  • critiques of "traditional" co-ops? ("islands in a sea of capitalism")

  • critiques of platform co-ops? ("Open-Value Cooperativism — the radical edge of Platform Co-ops." also [1])

  • the missing feminist perspective on all these things, why?

  • historical "fluid modes" of governance (linked to this David Graeber essay - talking about seasonal variations in governance structure)

  • a diversion off to inspect "AnyShare" (given as an example of Open Cooperativism), to find a seemingly abandoned project, what happened? why don't these things work?

  • another diversion off to https://metamaps.cc via some links - seems a recurring theme/dream: digital tools to unleash our potential for collaboration

  • this linked David Bollier Re-imagining Value workshop/study thing, and the wider topics of "value" definition (I liked this quote from that [2], I think the risk described there is very much still alive), and moving towards "relational value" as a key idea

  • I drifted off into metamodernism for a while too...

  • my recurring question with many of these things is, aren't they still all just dependent on capitalism via client work to keep it going? to what extent to they lead to a new economy vs just nicer work environments? ("islands in a sea of capitalism"), the aim is to go beyond that [3], but is it working? what are the tensions? limitations?

I know exploring all the related topics is probably a never-ending thing, and I don't mean we should go into everything I just wrote there, that's just a flavour of this wider context and my perspective as I try to make sense of it all. I'm also interested in the specifics of the model, and very interested to just listen to people too.

I wonder if we could kind of curate the available topics into a digestible set, and then vote them into priorities depending on peoples interests. topics could come from anywhere related. what aspects are you interested in? why are you interested in it?

[1]

Open Cooperativism argues that it’s not enough to have a better Uber or a more democratic AirBnB: we must tackle issues like housing and transportation head on. The root causes of our dysfunctional, destructive economies can’t be danced around.

[2]

"Praetorius is also suspicious of “value” as a word associated with the German philosophical tradition of idealism, which she regards as “an unreliable authority because of its strange methodological origins” – “Western bourgeois men of the 19th and 20th Centuries, who created an invisible sphere of abstract concepts meant to denote certain qualities, as a means to forget their own belonging to nature and their own basic needs, especially towards women.”"

[3]

On the flipside, if cooperatives are islands in a sea of capitalism, we need better catamarans, bridges, and data lines to connect them to each other and to other transformative economies. Our view of cooperation in this context includes collaborations that make good use of the salvageable affordances of DLTs along with the culture of the Commons and Cooperative movements.

Gabby Bray

Gabby Bray February 17th, 2020 01:10

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Matt Noyes

Matt Noyes February 16th, 2020 19:19

I like the idea of starting with the governance model because we can compare it to our experience here and in other organizations. If we do two sessions, I would suggest spreading them out a bit.

mike_hales

mike_hales February 15th, 2020 16:40

@Nick Sellen suggested that we take a chapter per session, multiple sessions. I noted how much there is to read in the Model and the Manifesto, and suggested we read just the Model. One way or another we have a challenge here, of bulk and density. What do folks propose?

I propose we adopt the two top-scoring slots from the time poll, and run two sessions. I doubt that we’ll sustain a longer programme of meetings. But I‘m open at this point, regarding which document/s we read. What do others feel?

Matthew Cropp

Matthew Cropp February 15th, 2020 16:21

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mike_hales

mike_hales February 15th, 2020 09:54

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mike_hales

mike_hales February 15th, 2020 09:53

Michel Alexandre Salim

Michel Alexandre Salim February 15th, 2020 07:00

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Michel Alexandre Salim

Michel Alexandre Salim
Yes
February 15th, 2020 06:59

Jonathan Bean

Jonathan Bean February 15th, 2020 00:21

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JD

Josh Davis February 15th, 2020 00:12

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Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen February 15th, 2020 00:10

I hope it is clear to everybody what that middle column of hand gestures meant....

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen February 15th, 2020 00:09

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Matt Noyes

Matt Noyes February 14th, 2020 23:59

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Matt Noyes

Matt Noyes started a time poll February 14th, 2020 23:58

Social.Coop Reading Group: DisCO Governance Model You have until 4:00pm - Friday 28 Feb 2020 to participate.

A 90 minute meeting on Zoom to discuss the Distributed Cooperative Organization Governance Model.
See the thread for additional reading suggestions from Stacco Troncoso and others.
The times proposed are intended to make it possible for people from Japan to Spain to participate. If you add an option, please notify everyone so they can change their vote.

timezone
emi do
emi do
Luke Opperman
Ana Ulin
Stacco Troncoso
Gabby Bray
Matthew Cropp
mike_hales
mike_hales
Michel Alexandre Salim
Jonathan Bean
JD
Bob Haugen
Matt Noyes
Total
March 15th, 2020 13:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
5
March 15th, 2020 21:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
5
March 16th, 2020 13:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
7
March 16th, 2020 21:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
5
April 5th, 2020 13:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
10
April 5th, 2020 21:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
7
April 6th, 2020 13:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
10
April 6th, 2020 21:00
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
7
Stacco Troncoso

Stacco Troncoso
Yes
February 14th, 2020 08:47

Stacco Troncoso

Stacco Troncoso February 13th, 2020 05:55

Hey there, very glad to see this. I agree that the Gov/Economic model is more operational, but the Manifesto sets out the wider cultural context (ie: why did we do this?). The former is currently very tweaked towards the idiosyncrasies of Guerrilla Translation though. The goal here is to eventually develop a more bare bones gov model, based on the TLDR. Also, before diving into the model itself it may be useful to read this laypersons' overview article. You'll encounter both links within the model, but I wanted to highlight them.

Circling back to the Manifesto, you can also read this much shorter article summarizing its main points to get a taste.

Happy to go along with whatever you choose. Looking forward to your feedback

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen February 12th, 2020 00:12

the nature of SC is not exactly obvious? 

It's a section of a federated social network that is focused on cooperatives. It's not an organization of its own, except as much as it needs to be to keep itself running. But it could be useful, because a lot of the participants are also active in other cooperative organizations and contexts.

One of the weaknesses of cooperatives, despite their principles, is they tend to be isolated, working on their own "mission" and not interested in organizing into anything much larger. (Yes I know that is not true of all cooperatives, but still...) SC could be (and to some extent is) a gathering place for cooperatives where connections could be made and strengthened and maybe maybe something larger could start to grow...

mike_hales

mike_hales February 11th, 2020 21:35

@Nick Sellen noted

most organisations are not operating anywhere close to this model

I think that's why it may be so helpful to social.coop. It can help highlight the specifics of what SC does do? Perhaps, show that the commons orientation (a commons of know-how about coops?) is a stronger characteristic than the coop form of SC itself (produces no services, owns ¿no? assets, has no paid workers, provides no livelihood, has almost no revenue, distributes no surplus). OK, I'm being provocative. But the nature of SC is not exactly obvious? II suspect that moving out into the 'broader context', as Nick suggests, could enable us to remain fuzzy, talking vague Values and Principles. I do like the broad context, but I'd be glad if we got rather specific here, about organisational form and actual operations.

mike_hales

mike_hales February 11th, 2020 21:17

Here is a pdf version of the Modelv3.0 - I wanted something I could mark up with notes. This might serve as a shared reference version, since it has page numbers?

Nick Sellen

Nick Sellen
Yes
February 11th, 2020 13:48

I'm interested in both, I'm not actually sure what the format of the reading group is, as I didn't participate before, but I would be interested in a session per chapter of the manifesto (or section of the Model doc), as there are so many links from it. To put it in the broadest context. A deep reading of just the Model would miss out this broader context, which seems useful, given that most organisations are not operating anywhere close to this model.

Ana Ulin

Ana Ulin
Yes
February 10th, 2020 23:42

Agreed with everyone else that Model v3.0 seems like a deeper read, although I would be in for either (or both).

Jonathan Bean

Jonathan Bean
Yes
February 10th, 2020 13:55

Model 3.0 does seem more relevant than the manifesto.

Leo Sammallahti

Leo Sammallahti
Yes
February 9th, 2020 22:09

Yes, if we can have discussion in WeCo, WeCo will donate 1$ for Social Coop per person participating, whether by making a post or commenting on an existing thread. Here are more details.

Matthew Cropp

Matthew Cropp
Yes
February 9th, 2020 21:11

emi do

emi do
Yes
February 9th, 2020 19:59

Don Blair

Don Blair
Yes
February 9th, 2020 18:29

Thanks so much for this! Both versions look interesting, I'd be up to discuss either of them --- but all for digging into Model3.0 if that's what others are most interested in. Cheers!

Bob Haugen

Bob Haugen
Yes
February 9th, 2020 16:20

Model3.0 please.

mike_hales

mike_hales
Yes
February 9th, 2020 15:56

I propose we consider the Modelv3.0 - the operational spec - rather than the Manifesto. Less dramatic but more crunchy? And easier to make parallels (or not) with what social.coop does?

Matt Noyes

Matt Noyes is checking February 9th, 2020 15:33

Reading Group discussion of the DisCO model? Closed 8:01am - Saturday 15 Feb 2020

Outcome
by Matt Noyes February 15th, 2020 15:56

Eleven people have indicated their desire to participate in a reading group on the DisCO model. Of course you are welcome even if you did not vote. Please see the time poll: https://www.loomio.org/d/AS0aPL3i/disco-distributed-cooperative-organization/16

In a separate discussion the idea was raised of reading and discussing the DisCO Manifesto and/or Governance Rules. If you would be interested in participating, vote "yes." Time/Date to be determined.
(@mike_hales: "There’s a lot to read, and what you see depends on what you read. These two will give quite distinct senses of what DisCO feels like -
https://wiki.guerrillamediacollective.org/index.php/Distributed_Cooperative_Organization_(DisCO)_Governance_Model_V_3.0

https://disco.coop/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/DisCO_Manifesto-v1-1.pdf

The Model3.0 is sober, a working spec, for operational use. The Manifesto is very colourful, evocative, tilting at windmills. Read both? Or if just one, the Model."

11 - No
0 - Yes